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Advice on moving to Toronto (Expired PR)

Advice on moving to Toronto (Expired PR)

Old Oct 28th 2021, 2:07 pm
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Red face Advice on moving to Toronto (Expired PR)

Hi All,

First and foremost I apologize in advance if I am posting this in the wrong area, I'm not too familiar with this forum.

I am a 31 year old professional working in Business Development. I had originally emigrated to Toronto from the UK in 2008 with my family. But unfortunately, due to complications with my Grandma's health we had to move back after about a year. I'm glad in a away that we were able to take care of her and spend numerous years with her until she passed in 2019. I am now looking to go back to start over. I understand that my PR card would now be expired as you have to be there for a certain number of times within a 5 year period etc. I haven't been back since we left.

My question is what would be the best route to go back? Is it too late for me? Do you suggest I go there on a travel visa and try to find a job whilst there? I've had a close friend who recently moved over after he met his partner in B.C., they managed to make it work until she got engaged to him and eventually sponsored him over. But I'm sure there are other ways for those of us who aren't as lucky!

Any information/advice would be most appreciated.

Thankyou

Aaron
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 3:06 pm
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Default Re: Advice on moving to Toronto (Expired PR)

Legally you are still a permanent resident. An expired PR card does not invalidate your status. I suggest you read this link about renouncing your PR status. You cant get any sort of visa at the moment as you are still considered a PR.

https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/inform...s/5781ETOC.asp

Basically you have not met the residency obligation so if you returned tomorrow chances are you would be reported and issued with a removal order. With an expired PR card they wouldn't even let you on the aircraft flying to Canada unless of course you lied.

Your decision in the end but I know what I would do.
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 3:56 pm
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Default Re: Advice on moving to Toronto (Expired PR)

Hi,

Thanks for your message above.

I actually sought advice from Immigration solicitors in Canada and they told me exactly what you have. In addition they said they could assist me with moving back over but I think there s process whereby I would have to land in the States and then make my way to the Canadian border and tell them I'm returning back home and I had been away in the States visiting family/Attending wedding etc. They said they would issue some documentation to show at the border. Again there are fee's involved I think it was somewhere around $2500.

I'm at my wits end because I definitely want to move back and start fresh now that I have completed all my education but i do not know how to go about it.
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 8:10 pm
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Default Re: Advice on moving to Toronto (Expired PR)

Originally Posted by Aaron29 View Post
Hi,

Thanks for your message above.

I actually sought advice from Immigration solicitors in Canada and they told me exactly what you have. In addition they said they could assist me with moving back over but I think there s process whereby I would have to land in the States and then make my way to the Canadian border and tell them I'm returning back home and I had been away in the States visiting family/Attending wedding etc. They said they would issue some documentation to show at the border. Again there are fee's involved I think it was somewhere around $2500.

I'm at my wits end because I definitely want to move back and start fresh now that I have completed all my education but i do not know how to go about it.
I strongly suggest you don't appoint the 'immigration solicitors' to represent you and pay their fee. What they are suggesting is a ' not strictly legit work around'. Their suggestion that you blatantly lie to the Immigration Officer (stating you have been to a wedding in the US and are now returning home) together with the offer to give you false documentation sends huge alarm bells ringing.. don't use them!

If you lie on an application or in an interview with an IRCC officer, this is also fraud. It’s a crime.

If you send false documents or information, we’ll refuse your application. We may also:
  • forbid you from entering Canada for at least 5 years
  • give you a permanent record of fraud with us
  • take away your status as a permanent resident or Canadian citizen
  • have you charged with a crime or
  • remove you from Canada
There have been suggestions to other members that if they enter the country without being stopped and questioned, theoretically they could 'lay low' in Canada for 2+ years and wait until they meet the residency requirements, then apply for a PR card, (if they wanted to leave again - there is no legal requirement to carry one) - or wait until they have lived and worked in Canada for a few years then apply for Citizenship.

However, be aware that if you are asked on arrival at the port of entry for information as to when you left Canada; where you currently live in Canada, or anything at all related to where you have been for the past x number of years and you don't answer truthfully you risk being banned from Canada for misrepresentation - i.e. lying to an Immigration officer. Your passport will show that you flew into the US from the UK and potentially other stamps showing you haven't been in Canada.. Your phone can be examined, your laptop can be examined, your luggage will not show any Canada labels even. If you are not stopped for secondary examination, you could potentially do it - but it does run a risk and I would suggest if you are asked anything you answer truthfully.

If you did go down that route - during this period of waiting until you met the residency requirements, you would not be able to leave Canada - and if at any time you are stopped and asked about your status, you can theoretically be deported. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...sentation.html

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...pr-status.html
https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpce...um=1470&top=10

Last edited by Siouxie; Oct 28th 2021 at 8:16 pm.
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 8:11 pm
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Default Re: Advice on moving to Toronto (Expired PR)

I am not a lawyer but deal with these cases on a regular basis. To save money and grief renouncing is the easier path. Now once loss of PR status is definitive then you are free to apply to whatever PR route you would qualify for but no guarantees it will be quick and if you don't qualify then even paying Immigration attorneys is not advisable as you either qualify or don't. If you are not bothered about where in Canada then there are more options and then the option of moving to wherever later. Limiting yourself to one place is not always the best option.
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 8:58 pm
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Default Re: Advice on moving to Toronto (Expired PR)

Thanks a million guys for the info above!

I was advised the exact same thing by a family friend too- Similar to you guys he was saying just to try and go through, and if you get asked no questions you're in. Lay low for a few years and reapply for your PR. But what are the chances of that happening? Pretty slim I assume, as you'd probably get asked questions by immigration nonetheless?
Yeah I don't think I'll be risking it with the immigration solicitors, I don't personally know of anyone who's used them and successfully entered back into Canada. Either way the thought of being caught at the port of entry and being deported doesn't sound appealing.
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Old Oct 28th 2021, 9:41 pm
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Default Re: Advice on moving to Toronto (Expired PR)

If it were me, I would get a new UK passport and fly into Canada (I don't think going via a land border is really any different) with a return ticket and hotel booked for your stay, not mention PR, see what happens. Then once you are in apply for a new PR card with new passport info. As Former Lancastrian mentioned it's your choice if you want to lie by omission, but my view is always that life isn't as clear cut as bureaucracy expects it to be.

Keep in mind though, the Canada of 2008 is a lot different to the Canada of 2021. Some positive changes such as more larger tech firms opening up here, but some negative - we're currently in a huge asset bubble that has made renting and buying housing incredibly expensive.

Last edited by CanadaJimmy; Oct 28th 2021 at 9:45 pm.
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Old Oct 29th 2021, 2:24 am
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Default Re: Advice on moving to Toronto (Expired PR)

Hi

Originally Posted by CanadaJimmy View Post
If it were me, I would get a new UK passport and fly into Canada (I don't think going via a land border is really any different) with a return ticket and hotel booked for your stay, not mention PR, see what happens. Then once you are in apply for a new PR card with new passport info. As Former Lancastrian mentioned it's your choice if you want to lie by omission, but my view is always that life isn't as clear cut as bureaucracy expects it to be.

Keep in mind though, the Canada of 2008 is a lot different to the Canada of 2021. Some positive changes such as more larger tech firms opening up here, but some negative - we're currently in a huge asset bubble that has made renting and buying housing incredibly expensive.
1. Won't work, s/he would have to apply for an ETA which would be refused as the system would should that s/he was a PR.


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Old Oct 29th 2021, 5:03 am
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Default Re: Advice on moving to Toronto (Expired PR)

Originally Posted by PMM View Post
Hi



1. Won't work, s/he would have to apply for an ETA which would be refused as the system would should that s/he was a PR.
Even with different passport number? Some people have the same name and DOB…

The land border approach makes more sense now though.
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Old Oct 31st 2021, 2:31 am
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Default Re: Advice on moving to Toronto (Expired PR)

Doesnt the OP have exceptional circumstances for an residency obligation appeal? Family circumstances are often taken into account.

Reasons for Absence – if your client was absent from Canada for family reasons (i.e., illness, death,
etc.), this will be far more compelling than absence for financial reasons (i.e., did not leave
employment in country of origin, did not find employment in Canada, etc.). In either case,
corroboration will be required. If your client was outside of Canada for family reasons, this will
typically involve a long-term illness and/or convalescence, in which case it will also be important to
establish why your client, in particular, had to attend to this relative

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Old Oct 31st 2021, 1:53 pm
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Default Re: Advice on moving to Toronto (Expired PR)

Originally Posted by Eggx View Post
Doesnt the OP have exceptional circumstances for an residency obligation appeal? Family circumstances are often taken into account.
Twelve years might be pushing it a bit, especially with the last two years since grandmother died.
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Old Oct 31st 2021, 4:25 pm
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Default Re: Advice on moving to Toronto (Expired PR)

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Twelve years might be pushing it a bit, especially with the last two years since grandmother died.
+1 In particular because the OP was around 18/19 when they returned to the UK with the family, and they could have returned to Canada on their own at any time during the past 12 years. There is a humanitarian and compassionate route but it's generally utilised in these kind of circumstances by people who were removed from Canada by parents as minors and are asking to return to Canada and resume PR status when they reach the age of majority; it's not a simple route and not appropriate for this case.
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