OGSG

Double car tax treaty?

londonsteve

There's nowt wrong with the 16% income tax in Hungary, the problem is with the outrageous social security and pensions contributions they impose on your gross salary. Even worse is the fact that income tax is calculated on both what we in the UK would term the 'gross' salary AND the employers social insurance contribution which is, I think, 28%. So add 28% to your gross salary, then calculate 16% of that for your income tax, the real rate is above 20%, higher than the UK base rate of tax up to £41k-ish...

PaulinEger

londonsteve: if you have relatives over here why don't you buy a Hungarian car and insure it in one of their names and get them to write out a note entitling you to drive it? Over here it's the car that's insured, not the driver.

londonsteve

Yes, this is now the plan. Easiest solution in the circumstances! Thanks for everyone's input into the issue. I also wouldn't register as resident.

OGSG

They of course would be the owners (and collect the fines!).
And as long as you have the official document (and there is one!) on you every time you will have no problem!

SteveNLisa

Completely off topic I know, however I thought this little gem would make you all smile/whince/cry. My dad contacted me to say he had spoken to a polish guy, who apprently has property in Hungary who said Why on earth would anyone want to move to Hungary, It is I agree Pretty and the schools are ok, But there is no Health system, you can;t just go to the doctors or hospital! and treatment is very backward, you have to remember this is a third world country, there are very high taxes, it costs a fortune to use a car as motorways are taxed at £20.00 a day and cars are tax heavily, there are no jobs and the most infuriating of all his comments you cannot just go to a shop and expect to buy milk and bread as they do not always have such things to buy in the shops!!!

Needless to say More than one deep breath needed, Maybe in 1956 things were like this, but trying to explain that we are not move to a third world country with witch doctors and mud shacks is proving somewhat difficult

Sorry to have hijacked the thread with no answers to your dilema.

Rural Hungary

Apparently, The Budapest Times has an article stating that the law has been revised and now only applies to Hungarian citizens, not residents. Has anybody read the article?

tomasc

I have not heard that the law would have been changed - but could have, anyhow the EU directive for sure has not changed. My understanding this law was meant to catch mainly hungarians who are using either spv's or similar arrangements to avoid registering the car here - basically claiming that the car is not in hungary more than six months any given time.

End of the day the EU regulation is very clear: if you keep your car in any member state more than six months it has to be registered in that country. In principle it does not matter if the owner is even resident as long as the car is there :-)

http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/citiz....htm?profile=0

I doubt that the hungary would have explicitely excluded non-citizens, as i have never heard any other european union member country would have done it.

Rural Hungary

Clarification would be useful as last I heard, the new law meant that residents bringing a foreign plated vehicle into the country had 2 or 3 months to register them. This caused concern for expats who have residency here but only spend 3-4 months in Hungary.

Extract from the BT:

Nothing will change for expatriates in Hungary: the law expressly applies only to Hungarian citizens with their primary domicile in this country. Hungarians living abroad on a long-term basis are also exempt from the law. International companies with fleets of cars registered abroad can breathe a sigh of relief too – according to the legislation, what counts is where the parent company has its registered office. It is important in whose name the vehicle is registered.

(source: The Budapest Times)

Notalab

With the new "chipped" passports, you are logged in and out of Britain and I suspect that in the event of an accident claim against the Insurers, that if you had not informed them that you had had your motor out of the country [and probably paid extra for the privilege] for more than the insurance small print allows, then that would also be a reason for them not paying out. I'm sure they have their ways of accessing the information from whatever border control call themselves these days.

londonsteve

Chipped passports may log you into the country, but you certainly aren't logged out, as the UK is the only country I have ever travelled to in the globe that has no exit controls. As such, they have no idea when anybody left the country! Course this gives people free reign to overstay on their visas at will, as they know they won't be picked up on exit, but that's another issue.

Even if there were exit controls I don't think any insurer would have the right to consult the immigration authority's database.

Notalab

Was thinking of the plate recognition at the channel tunnel terminals, I'm sure they keep a record and can match the car against passport holder. As for access to information, insurers say they suspect that someone is breaking the law for having no insurance [insurance invalid because of length of out of country stay] which makes it a criminal offence and hey presto info supplied. Paranoid? Me?

londonsteve

I can see your point of view but I do think you're being too paranoid about it. Firstly, I'm not even sure if there are number plate cameras at all terminals. The channel tunnel is a special case because of security concerns with detonating a bomb under the sea, but with ferries there are fewer concerns. The ferry companies use the cameras to recognise cars and match them to their booking, but I'm unsure if the police have seperate cameras. Perhaps they do.

Staying overseas longer than allowed with your insurance policy is not a criminal offence, it is a civil issue under contract law. You are breaching the terms of your insurance contract for which there are no criminal penalties. In any case, you can only be in breach of the criminal code in the country where the car is in, should they be of the opinion that you are effectively driving without insurance, which is unlikely. In pratice nobody will care as insurers are unable to deny third party cover within the EU, even if the policyholder is in breach of contract. This is to ensure that an innocent third party is not without compensation in the event of an accident. If your insurer felt sufficiently about your 'breach', they could seek to sue you in the civil courts to recover their losses, but in practice they'd have a very hard time proving, on a balance of probabilities, that you are in breach. Of course, if you admit everything to them over the phone then you're banged to rights and proving the case against you becomes much easier for them. I have only ever heard of such cases where the policyholder has driven on the Nurburgring despite this being in direct breach of their policy terms, and further if you've done that, the insurer knows you've probably got a bob or two. If you haven't got a bean they can win the case but you can only repay their losses at the rate of 50p per week!

To summarise, I would never worry that I'm 'driving without insurance' in the eyes of the law, but if I had a valuable car then I'd be more concerned that my own car is covered in a smash or if it's stolen whilst abroad.

Notalab

In all seriousness, thank you for your erudite reply. Reasoned verbal contretemps are not my forte and I bow to your superior knowledge.