Jack_Russells4ever

I must add, I am NOT a fan or customer of corporations with an agenda that is political in nature, especially if that corporation leans to the far left or seeks to fundamentally change society in ways that hurt traditional family values or seek to silence free speech. I go out of my way to not financially support those with a radical agenda.

Benny Kovacs

Why are so many people getting het up about this statue?

Are you black?
Are you Hungarian?

Let it be, it's a statue lol

Peter_in_Hungary

A statue is art which can be just for the sake of art - but where the art makes a statement or supports / promotes a cause then IMO the statue and its cause should be relevant to the area in which it is placed. There are many statues in Hungary commemorating Hungarian events from those concerning '56, WW2, the Turkish invasion etc all of which are relevant. A BLM statue (err, BLM - others not so much? or should it be ALM?) is not relevant to Hungary (why not a statue to those killed in Africa by Boko Haram - just as relevant). If a statue is to be erected it should be relevant to the area/country and not jumping on the band wagon of a politically correct cause that has no local relevance.

The current fashion of washing history of all things deemed incorrect by todays standards is flawed. What happened - happened and has shaped who and what we are today. IMO the gun loving society that is the USA is the cause of the BLM movement, not so much racism, any society that can lobby that the solution to mass shootings in schools is to give the teachers guns is fundamentally flawed!

Back to the statue in question - IMO if you have money for a statue make it either just for art or relevant to the location !!

Rant over

Benny Kovacs

Why stop at statues?
lets burn some books whilst we're at it.

Jack_Russells4ever

Must we turn Hungary into what most of us expats left? A place were saying something that offends another person can get you a visit from the police. This is NOT the UK nor should one expect everything to be like it is back home. Political correctness is ruining the planet. Just because some of us dislike the fact that a leftist mayor wants to allow a statue about BLM does NOT means that our right to make a comment should be construed as hate speech. While I do NOT see the need for a BLM statute here in Hungary that does not mean I am against someones right to disagree with me nor does that mean that speech or for that matter books, websites that may offend another person should be construed as deserving of censorship. What ever happened to being able to walk away from something that offends us? People need to get out of crying like a baby every time they disagree with another person or see something somewhere they dislike and move along. Why cannot people just respect free speech and learn that we all will never always agree about everything.

So in closing, if you support having a BLM statue placed somewhere that is your right. It is my right to ask why does BLM need a statue here when there are to my knowledge no violence against black people here in Hungary. Let us agree to disagree and let us support one anothers right to free speech and free thinking.

Benny Kovacs

"Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

Rosemary

Please keep the discussion going in a friendly manner, agree to disagree and keep it calm or I will be forced to close the thread.

Rosemary

Sachina

I stand to be corrected but the the sculpture was the winner of a competition for the area around Ferencsvaros Budapest. and was judges by professors from the Hungarian University of Fine Arts.

Nyílt ’Public Art’ pályázat ferencvárosi közterekre | MKE

Open 'Public Art' tender for public spaces in Ferencváros

If you look on page 36 of the PDF below there is a photo of the "offending" sculpture which is a kneeling Statue of Liberty which I think is the one all the fuss is about.

https://acbgaleria.hu/content/_commo...bition_eng.pdf

The blurb that goes with it .......

The 3D print of Péter Szalay from 2020 depicts the Statue of Liberty from New York in a miniature version kneeling. To take a knee as a political statement virally spread because of the actions of the NFL player Colin Kaepernick, who kneeled during the American national anthem on the beginning football games to protest against police brutality and racial inequality. The kneeling of Kaepernick quickly became a media hype, dividing American society. The actions of Kaepernick became so divisive, that none of the american football teams offered him a contract and his career came to a stall because of his socially engaged actions. The gesture of kneeling became independent of Kaepernick as a new symbol of the civil movement against racial inequality in the United States, and it became an even more used symbol of criticism and civil disobedience after more and more cases of police brutality against black americans came to light. The first wave of the American quarantine was ended by the nation-wide #BlackLivesMatter protests, which ignited after police officers brutally killed George Floyd during his arrest. Péter Szalay by reflecting on the civil movement which is dominating the global media and American public discourse right now made The Statue of Liberty kneel in his work of art. The kneeling gesture of the Statue of Liberty also reflects on the wave of decolonial public monument and statue topplings and it also raises awareness for the critical revision of official national historical narratives manifested in public sculpture.

spouse of scouse

Such powerful words by Martin Niemöller. Thank you for reminding me of them Benny.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

PaulinEger

I don't understand why my post was removed. It was polite and not in the least challenging or
argumentative 🤐

FenTiger

Sorry, but that quote has a glaring omission ...... the fact of thousands of disabled people who were also gassed during WW2. Not only that but women who were disabled, including only having a hearing loss, were sterilised to prevent them having children.

ALM - All Lives Matter. It's time BLM supporters and their allies stop whining about what happened to them in the past. They weren't gassed like Jews were just because they were Jewish. It's an American problem, not European or Hungarian.

Sachina

I don't wish to be contentious, but I would just like to point out that Black and mixed race people also suffered at the hands of the Nazis during WW2 although not in such vast numbers. In fact the idea of extermination of anyone considered "inferior" came from the German occupation of South West Africa, now Namibia where the horrific treatment of the native population was a precursor to the "final solution".

There are about 7000 black people living in Hungary at present, many of them on scholarships funded by the Hungarian government. I also know of several black South Africans working in IT and living in Budapest.

https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-t.../black-people/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-ger...the-holocaust/

kimilseung

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57784724

FenTiger

I worked for NHS for 30 years. I was very involved with DEN+, Disabled Employees Network Plus within my NHS employers, I coined that name and the plus was to remind people that we are not only disabled but have other characteristics, i.e. black, asian, gay, lesbian, etc. It was shocking at meetings that the "plus" members had something to say about BAME and LGBT! They didn't care about them having a disability! I worked alongside both black and asian people ..... both were racist towards each other I was lost for words! Within the equality and diversity network ..... disabled people are right at the bottom of the hierachy of those who are fighting for equality. Can someone please explain to me why I was denied NHS staff accomodation when I was in bad need of somewhere to stay? According to the NHS staff residence manager I was the wrong colour! But hang on ..... I am profoundly deaf, born to a very poor family with a two up two down house and outside toilet right at the bottom of the garden. My education until I was 11 years old and sent away to a boarding school, 120 miles away from my home, for deaf boys was pants! I didn't learn anything until I went to this deaf boarding school. The region, Peterborough, where I lived had a very awful attitude towards disabled people yet if you drove 40 miles to the west to Leicester or a bit further up north to Nottingham it was a totally different world! They had schools for deaf children!
This one knee business is way over the top ... I'd really like to see a gesture from professional footballers to make a statement that All Lives Matter and they want to see equality for ALL people! Lastly ..... have you heard of a professional footballer who is deaf? Nope, They get rejected because of the ignorant attitude of those who manage and direct the path of their football club! I have heard of a few stories whereby a very good footballer who happens to be deaf has been discarded because they are "different"!
Nuff said.

FenTiger

Adding to the above next to my deaf boarding school was a sixth form college for deaf students. They had a football team and for a couple of years they were top of the local league! Were any of them scouted, nope! Nuff said!