Warning Removal of House Number
Jul 15th 2012, 8:51 am
#1
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 70
Warning Removal of House Number
After buying our property in Goa Legally as many of us did. Last year the village panchayat removed our house number from records. A few days ago I had a court summons arrive at our house, but the summons was for the week previous. I do not live in Goa, so obviously flights etc would have been needed for me to attend. One of the papers I was asked to produce was permission for the change of use from agricultural land to residential. Now that the house number was removed it seems they have changed the status of the land to agricultural. Our house is an old Portuguese one that has been there for hundreds of years. Grrrr It is obvious they will confiscate it, and make it all seem legal. Obviously I will try and fight this tooth and nail but I thought that I would post this warning to other home owners. I have no idea how you stop them removing your house number, and they would not let me pay the house tax either. Looks like we have been set up.
Jul 15th 2012, 12:09 pm
#2
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 473
Re: Warning Removal of House Number
The document they have requested for change of use is a "sanad". Yours being an old house, like countless other Goan ancestral properties, it was probably never registered during Portugese times or is rotting away in some bundle deep in storage of the wrong government department.
Go to the Land Records Office in Panjim and get a Survey Plan for your whole area. Then go to the computerised booth outside at the front and get individual Forms I & XIV for your survey number and your neighbours. (I think you can do this online now but I don't have a link).
It is very revealing to find out that not only do the structures not correlate to the Survey Plan, but many of your neighbours have houses on land that is marked as Orchard or Agricultural. Obviously, they don't get any summons and continue with illegal extensions without interruption.
It appears you are definitely being targeted for some reason. Is your house near a beach within 200 metres of the High Tide Line, or even between 200 and 500 metres from the HTL. Is there something such as a planned development that has made your land particularly valuable or necessary for the development to proceed e.g. a resort complex? Have you got on the wrong side of anyone at the Panchayat?
I paid my House Tax in advance in May for year 2012/2013 and had a good read of the ledger for my vaddo. It was no surprise that most of my neighbours have not paid for years and that they are levied at 10R/- p.a. while I have been paying 1,000 R/- p.a. for eight years now. My property is no larger than theirs.
The resort hotel in front which is in CRZ III and shows only four small old houses and orchard land on the Survey Plan now has multiple blocks housing several hundred guests, a swimming pool and permanent 2 storey bar and restaurant stretching right down to the scrub at the back of the shore. Each year another structure goes up and, when I left for my 2 month exile just a few weeks before monsoon they were busy laying yet more foundations. They are levied a pittance, 40 R/- p.a. and are years in arrears anyway. Well, the owner did invite the Sarpanch and family to his daughter's lavish wedding in Mumbai, all expenses paid, and half the vaddo are dependant on the resort for employment.
The removal of house numbers and targeting foreigners for having old houses on agricultural land is extremely worrying. There were two guys, in Aldona(???) who had a confiscation order on them for the same reason but I haven't heard how things are there now partly because the BHCI haven't held a meeting and don't even answer emails.
Others on the forum will know what happened to "Mick & Nick" (???? not sure that's correct).
Go to the Land Records Office in Panjim and get a Survey Plan for your whole area. Then go to the computerised booth outside at the front and get individual Forms I & XIV for your survey number and your neighbours. (I think you can do this online now but I don't have a link).
It is very revealing to find out that not only do the structures not correlate to the Survey Plan, but many of your neighbours have houses on land that is marked as Orchard or Agricultural. Obviously, they don't get any summons and continue with illegal extensions without interruption.
It appears you are definitely being targeted for some reason. Is your house near a beach within 200 metres of the High Tide Line, or even between 200 and 500 metres from the HTL. Is there something such as a planned development that has made your land particularly valuable or necessary for the development to proceed e.g. a resort complex? Have you got on the wrong side of anyone at the Panchayat?
I paid my House Tax in advance in May for year 2012/2013 and had a good read of the ledger for my vaddo. It was no surprise that most of my neighbours have not paid for years and that they are levied at 10R/- p.a. while I have been paying 1,000 R/- p.a. for eight years now. My property is no larger than theirs.
The resort hotel in front which is in CRZ III and shows only four small old houses and orchard land on the Survey Plan now has multiple blocks housing several hundred guests, a swimming pool and permanent 2 storey bar and restaurant stretching right down to the scrub at the back of the shore. Each year another structure goes up and, when I left for my 2 month exile just a few weeks before monsoon they were busy laying yet more foundations. They are levied a pittance, 40 R/- p.a. and are years in arrears anyway. Well, the owner did invite the Sarpanch and family to his daughter's lavish wedding in Mumbai, all expenses paid, and half the vaddo are dependant on the resort for employment.
The removal of house numbers and targeting foreigners for having old houses on agricultural land is extremely worrying. There were two guys, in Aldona(???) who had a confiscation order on them for the same reason but I haven't heard how things are there now partly because the BHCI haven't held a meeting and don't even answer emails.
Others on the forum will know what happened to "Mick & Nick" (???? not sure that's correct).
Last edited by babu1; Jul 15th 2012 at 12:17 pm.
Jul 15th 2012, 12:50 pm
#3
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 473
Re: Warning Removal of House Number
http://www.collectornorth.goa.gov.in...%20&%20XIV.pdf
Birth certificate applications on Goa website
Vijay Desouza, TNN | Jul 15, 2012, 09.48AM IST
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/14936398.cms
PANAJI: North Goa Collector Mihir Vardhan has made available the application forms for certificates/permission issued by mamlatdar, deputy collector and collector including for inclusion of names on election card, ration card, birth certificates, on the websites www.collectornorth.goa.gov.inand www.northgoa.gov.in.
At talathi level application to issue of Form I and XIV, at taluka mamlatdars office level application for residence certificate, solvency certificate, divergence certificate affidavit for divergence certificate, application for dependent certificate income certificate (for Mediclaim) affidavit for income certificate (for Mediclaim) application for new ration card and cancellation of ration card, inclusion of name in ration card, deletion of name in ration card (if expired), deletion of name in ration card (in case of marriage), correction of details in ration card, challan fee form for ration card, declaration form for ration card, application for inclusion of name in electoral roll, application for objecting inclusion or seeking deletion of name in electoral roll, application for correction to particulars entered in electoral roll and application for transposition of entry in electoral roll are made available on the sites.
At Deputy Collector/Sub Divisional Officers level, application for caste certificate (for OBC), application of caste certificate, affidavit for caste certificate, application for sound permission and application for conversion of land. At the Collectors level/District level, application for new/renewal of arms license, application for domicile certificate, application for natural calamity relief and application for conversion of land.
At directorate of Civil Supplies level application grant/renewal of wholesale/retail license are also made available on these sites, an official press note said.
Copyright © 2012 Bennett, Coleman & Co. Ltd.
Comment by Vandan, Margao on experience of searching for documents:
Vandan (Margao)
2 hrs ago
In south Goa to obtain a certificate one have to go to Vasco sub register first from there they send you to Panaji archieve if the record is pre 1910, who will ask you to go to Altino where you are made to hunt record from tattered books not well maintained - you will not find here then go to Margoa where corrupt clerk will issue a receipt and call you after one week after one week day you go one get a reply we are unable to find record later one should take permission from the head of register who will allow you to check the poorly maintained books one has to waste time and later let in by the arrogant staff to search the record you go through the books but will not find the record but after one is fed up a LDC will ask you if you are tired of searching who will ask you to come after sometime at which time it's ready pay them and one gets it
Birth certificate applications on Goa website
Vijay Desouza, TNN | Jul 15, 2012, 09.48AM IST
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/14936398.cms
PANAJI: North Goa Collector Mihir Vardhan has made available the application forms for certificates/permission issued by mamlatdar, deputy collector and collector including for inclusion of names on election card, ration card, birth certificates, on the websites www.collectornorth.goa.gov.inand www.northgoa.gov.in.
At talathi level application to issue of Form I and XIV, at taluka mamlatdars office level application for residence certificate, solvency certificate, divergence certificate affidavit for divergence certificate, application for dependent certificate income certificate (for Mediclaim) affidavit for income certificate (for Mediclaim) application for new ration card and cancellation of ration card, inclusion of name in ration card, deletion of name in ration card (if expired), deletion of name in ration card (in case of marriage), correction of details in ration card, challan fee form for ration card, declaration form for ration card, application for inclusion of name in electoral roll, application for objecting inclusion or seeking deletion of name in electoral roll, application for correction to particulars entered in electoral roll and application for transposition of entry in electoral roll are made available on the sites.
At Deputy Collector/Sub Divisional Officers level, application for caste certificate (for OBC), application of caste certificate, affidavit for caste certificate, application for sound permission and application for conversion of land. At the Collectors level/District level, application for new/renewal of arms license, application for domicile certificate, application for natural calamity relief and application for conversion of land.
At directorate of Civil Supplies level application grant/renewal of wholesale/retail license are also made available on these sites, an official press note said.
Copyright © 2012 Bennett, Coleman & Co. Ltd.
Comment by Vandan, Margao on experience of searching for documents:
Vandan (Margao)
2 hrs ago
In south Goa to obtain a certificate one have to go to Vasco sub register first from there they send you to Panaji archieve if the record is pre 1910, who will ask you to go to Altino where you are made to hunt record from tattered books not well maintained - you will not find here then go to Margoa where corrupt clerk will issue a receipt and call you after one week after one week day you go one get a reply we are unable to find record later one should take permission from the head of register who will allow you to check the poorly maintained books one has to waste time and later let in by the arrogant staff to search the record you go through the books but will not find the record but after one is fed up a LDC will ask you if you are tired of searching who will ask you to come after sometime at which time it's ready pay them and one gets it
Jul 15th 2012, 1:57 pm
#4
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 70
Re: Warning Removal of House Number
http://www.collectornorth.goa.gov.in...%20&%20XIV.pdf
Birth certificate applications on Goa website
Vijay Desouza, TNN | Jul 15, 2012, 09.48AM IST
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/14936398.cms
PANAJI: North Goa Collector Mihir Vardhan has made available the application forms for certificates/permission issued by mamlatdar, deputy collector and collector including for inclusion of names on election card, ration card, birth certificates, on the websites www.collectornorth.goa.gov.inand www.northgoa.gov.in.
At talathi level application to issue of Form I and XIV, at taluka mamlatdars office level application for residence certificate, solvency certificate, divergence certificate affidavit for divergence certificate, application for dependent certificate income certificate (for Mediclaim) affidavit for income certificate (for Mediclaim) application for new ration card and cancellation of ration card, inclusion of name in ration card, deletion of name in ration card (if expired), deletion of name in ration card (in case of marriage), correction of details in ration card, challan fee form for ration card, declaration form for ration card, application for inclusion of name in electoral roll, application for objecting inclusion or seeking deletion of name in electoral roll, application for correction to particulars entered in electoral roll and application for transposition of entry in electoral roll are made available on the sites.
At Deputy Collector/Sub Divisional Officers level, application for caste certificate (for OBC), application of caste certificate, affidavit for caste certificate, application for sound permission and application for conversion of land. At the Collectors level/District level, application for new/renewal of arms license, application for domicile certificate, application for natural calamity relief and application for conversion of land.
At directorate of Civil Supplies level application grant/renewal of wholesale/retail license are also made available on these sites, an official press note said.
Copyright © 2012 Bennett, Coleman & Co. Ltd.
Comment by Vandan, Margao on experience of searching for documents:
Vandan (Margao)
2 hrs ago
In south Goa to obtain a certificate one have to go to Vasco sub register first from there they send you to Panaji archieve if the record is pre 1910, who will ask you to go to Altino where you are made to hunt record from tattered books not well maintained - you will not find here then go to Margoa where corrupt clerk will issue a receipt and call you after one week after one week day you go one get a reply we are unable to find record later one should take permission from the head of register who will allow you to check the poorly maintained books one has to waste time and later let in by the arrogant staff to search the record you go through the books but will not find the record but after one is fed up a LDC will ask you if you are tired of searching who will ask you to come after sometime at which time it's ready pay them and one gets it
Birth certificate applications on Goa website
Vijay Desouza, TNN | Jul 15, 2012, 09.48AM IST
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/14936398.cms
PANAJI: North Goa Collector Mihir Vardhan has made available the application forms for certificates/permission issued by mamlatdar, deputy collector and collector including for inclusion of names on election card, ration card, birth certificates, on the websites www.collectornorth.goa.gov.inand www.northgoa.gov.in.
At talathi level application to issue of Form I and XIV, at taluka mamlatdars office level application for residence certificate, solvency certificate, divergence certificate affidavit for divergence certificate, application for dependent certificate income certificate (for Mediclaim) affidavit for income certificate (for Mediclaim) application for new ration card and cancellation of ration card, inclusion of name in ration card, deletion of name in ration card (if expired), deletion of name in ration card (in case of marriage), correction of details in ration card, challan fee form for ration card, declaration form for ration card, application for inclusion of name in electoral roll, application for objecting inclusion or seeking deletion of name in electoral roll, application for correction to particulars entered in electoral roll and application for transposition of entry in electoral roll are made available on the sites.
At Deputy Collector/Sub Divisional Officers level, application for caste certificate (for OBC), application of caste certificate, affidavit for caste certificate, application for sound permission and application for conversion of land. At the Collectors level/District level, application for new/renewal of arms license, application for domicile certificate, application for natural calamity relief and application for conversion of land.
At directorate of Civil Supplies level application grant/renewal of wholesale/retail license are also made available on these sites, an official press note said.
Copyright © 2012 Bennett, Coleman & Co. Ltd.
Comment by Vandan, Margao on experience of searching for documents:
Vandan (Margao)
2 hrs ago
In south Goa to obtain a certificate one have to go to Vasco sub register first from there they send you to Panaji archieve if the record is pre 1910, who will ask you to go to Altino where you are made to hunt record from tattered books not well maintained - you will not find here then go to Margoa where corrupt clerk will issue a receipt and call you after one week after one week day you go one get a reply we are unable to find record later one should take permission from the head of register who will allow you to check the poorly maintained books one has to waste time and later let in by the arrogant staff to search the record you go through the books but will not find the record but after one is fed up a LDC will ask you if you are tired of searching who will ask you to come after sometime at which time it's ready pay them and one gets it
I think that I am being targeted as the panchayat were always demanding huge sums of money when I renovated our house. ( Paid over 1.5 lacs ) because they would stop works etc progressing. ( Even though everything was legal) Once the work was almost complete I refused to pay out anymore. Our pool was supposed to have been illegal also because Peter the pool man made it deeper than 5ft5" so I ended up instead of paying the panchayat another sum of money I actually paid out and got the pool corrected. I knew they would come every year for money if they had any excuse.
My court summons arrived over a week after the hearing was supposed to have been - worrying because if you do not attend I heard from Augustus my lawyer this is a problem. At the moment I cannot go to Goa because of the visa problems, I have been deported once already by arriving 2 days early. I can say it was the most horrible thing sitting in a cell with armed guards threatening you, as if I was a terrorist. My court summons was supposed to have been on the 5th of July the letter arrived 2 days ago.
I did meet one of the men that you mentioned at one of the first BHC meetings. I haven't got a clue how they got on, but I remember he was desperate. I hope that there case was resolved, and they have been left to live in peace.
I was living in Delhi with a full residence book for 4 years before I purchased our house, and another 2 afterwards. My husband was in India working at the time. Everything we did was legal as far as we are aware, money being brought over etc. Like many others we paid a lot of money for advice from lawyers, if we knew all the laws etc we wouldn't need them.
Our house keeper who resides in our property did tell me that the panchayat removed our house number just over a year ago but at the time I did not understand the implications of this. Obviously I will fight tooth and nail to prove my case, but it seems to me that this will be on my own the BHC seem to have abandoned everyone.
Thanks you very much for you advice, I will keep everyone posted on any developments. I guess that I will need to go to Goa ASAP and try and sort this mess out. Not easy when you are working abroad, I would have sold years ago if only they would let us register a sale.
Situations change after the loss of our daughter we no longer wanted to spend winters in Goa. Most of our friends have moved away, and it's so hard with the visa situation etc. It looks like I will have my work cut out chasing documents before the next court summons is due. ( That's if they even give me another chance to attend )
Jul 16th 2012, 1:30 am
#5
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 473
Re: Warning Removal of House Number
By 'court summons' do you mean Show Cause Notice which may have been served on you or pasted on your front door?
In any case, if Augustus M is representing you honestly on your behalf this can all be stalled until you are next allowed entry to India.
In any case, if Augustus M is representing you honestly on your behalf this can all be stalled until you are next allowed entry to India.
Jul 16th 2012, 3:31 am
#6
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 70
Re: Warning Removal of House Number
I have a court summons not show cause, I already had one of those a few years back.
Jul 21st 2012, 12:39 am
#7
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,680
Re: Warning Removal of House Number
After buying our property in Goa Legally as many of us did. Last year the village panchayat removed our house number from records. A few days ago I had a court summons arrive at our house, but the summons was for the week previous. I do not live in Goa, so obviously flights etc would have been needed for me to attend. One of the papers I was asked to produce was permission for the change of use from agricultural land to residential. Now that the house number was removed it seems they have changed the status of the land to agricultural. Our house is an old Portuguese one that has been there for hundreds of years. Grrrr It is obvious they will confiscate it, and make it all seem legal. Obviously I will try and fight this tooth and nail but I thought that I would post this warning to other home owners. I have no idea how you stop them removing your house number, and they would not let me pay the house tax either. Looks like we have been set up.
Hi Jacksie
This exact same thing happened to friends of mine when the D o E tried to use this excuse to investigate and threaten confiscation.
If you want to speak further please feel free to pm me.
Dread - x
Jul 21st 2012, 12:53 am
#8
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,680
Re: Warning Removal of House Number
He should be preparing a huge defence document using case law etc to send to the D o E in the interim, and should now be getting land registry details and searches for change of use from agricultural to residential in respect of yours and/or neighbouring properties. He should also be contacting the registry for previous registrations and deeds details for this property and neighbour properties, along with any documentary evidence to show that your place is no longer agricultural land. SOMEWHERE there will be a one sheet A4 document showing change of use to residential.
If he is not doing all of these with some degree of urgency, I can recommend you a lawyer who will act for you properly.
Friends of mine had this happen to them - they had him as their lawyer - I ended up finding the documents showing change of use agreed by the planning dept to defend their case !!!!! You may need to keep a lot of pressure on him to make sure he is getting a defence together for you.
Dread - x
