Racism
 

Sick to death of reading all this "Racist" cr*p.

Lets get this clear, Indians are not a "Race", they are a nation, or a people, but most definitely not a race.

The sentiments on this forum against certain posts are falsely playing the "Race" card. They can accurately be described as prejudiced, as generalisations, as distasteful or rude, even insulting..........but NOT racist.

The dictionary definitions are quite explicit, Google them and check.



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Re: Racism
 

Yes J5 but they are deemed to be members of a different race (much as I dislike the term 'race'). What do you think would be the reaction if an 'Indian' person put a post on this forum describing the British as 'pond life' and 'another breed'.

Re: Racism
 

I among others have been called worse things in Goa and if you remember the newspaper headlines in Goa last year ie, Doleites, scum, spongers from the UK go back to your own country etc etc etc.
I think we just have to all agree to disagree, the people who are having to sell or lose their propertys in Goa do have a right to be bitter, imagine the uproar if the UK government told all Indian famalies to sell up and leave britain and go back to your own country, it would be major world news and the court of human rights would intervene as well as Amnesty International, Red Cross and all the media, but when it happens in Goa, India hardly any interest by these bodies smacks of terribly unfair and unjust.

Re: Racism
 

Exactly! why stoop to their level. The governments of Goa/India are legitimate targets but the majority of 'Indians' who were insulted on the relevant post have probably no knowledge of the Goan property problem.

Re: Racism
 

Deemed by who?

Most peoples of Northern Europe trace their ancestry to the Aryans (a genuine "race"), and genetics have now proved that this race originated in southern India. Apart from their darker skin, many Indians have similar facial characteristics to many Caucasian peoples (again, not a race), and many Goans have distinctly "Portuguese" features, but probably due to more recent events.......

As I said before, some of the posts may have been insulting bigotted generalisations, but the way India behaves as a nation, and many of her citizens individually this is hardly surprising, is it?

This is a public forum and providing forum rules are not compromised, freedom of speech should be encouraged. Disagreements with another's point of view or attitude are all part of a forum, without them it would become a "nodding shop".

This is a Goa, India, forum and most of the time Goa and India leave themselves hideously open to criticism and/or abuse. However, this is not racism............


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Re: Racism
 

In terms of dictionary definitions this is a valid comment.

However, I can see why the OP's original comments are viewed by some (myself included) as racist - As you are all no doubt aware South Asia or The Indian Sub-continent includes (amongst others) Sri Lanka, Pakistan & Bangladesh. I'm not sure what percentage of the total population of South Asia is accounted for by the people of India but I would guess it's a pretty high percentage of the total, therefore I guess that's why I incorrectly in J5's opinion viewed the comments as racist (& still do if I'm honest) rather than as prejudiced, as generalisations, as distasteful or rude, even insulting.

I would view calling someone "a fat bastard" (me!) as prejudiced, as a generalisation, as distasteful, rude & insulting, but I still think the OP's comments were racist as they were were distasteful, rude, insulting & prejudiced generalisations against the people who make up the majority, percentage wise of the race of people from South Asia.

Splitting hairs maybe, but sometimes that's what opinions boil down to.

Regards

H.

Re: Racism
 

I couldn't agree more. What J5 and others on this forum tend to lose sight of, is that there are many on here with some Indian background who also have the same property problems as others and the same visa issues. It doesn't help for them to read some of the nasty posts from members like Mrs Brinks Matt and then read that she is supported in her views by others and the Mods. I mean come on, calling a Goan a 'Black ar**' isn't rascist ?? I had to ask the Mods to delete that post as I was so offended by it so who knows what a Goan reading that would have felt. You only have to look at the number of posts on this forum now - they are more than 50% down on what they were this time last year and the same names keep posting. That should tell you how popular this forum now is.

Re: Racism
 

Mzee, would you please stop making assumptions about me?
I have not lost sight of anything recently and certainly didnt need the meaning of xenophobia explaning last week. If you have a personal issue can I suggest you PM me with it rather than persistently singling me out for your attacks on forum?


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Re: Racism
 

The actual Goans are the most racist people, i have ever met.

Re: Racism
 

I'm sorry from a personal point of view I have to comment
Firstly, you know absolutely nothing about me yet you come on here calling me a racist it seems. It couldn't be further to the truth. I dont supportMrs Brinks Matts views. I have no reason to. I dont know her, I have never "spoken" to her. So why are you assuming I support her views. I have read nowhere about me supporting her views, and as I don't then it can't be written anywhere!

I have posted a sticky up before actually reading this thread. I think you should probably read it and take note of what is said.

No the forum is still running well .... we have a few people coming on here all the time telling us it isn't but thats untrue.

If you want this conversation / thread to continue then I suggest we do it in a constructive manner rather than resort to personal insult (which your comment about me is).

Thank you

Re: Racism
 

I have not referred to you anywhere Mitzy in my post - so there is no need to take it personally. I have sent you a PM - I would like my account closed as it is quite clear where this is heading.

Re: Racism
 

Have found Mrs Brinks Matts comments offensive/nasty and do not support her. However, can understand she is clearly taking her anger out on others regarding the property and visas problems. Find this sad.

Banyan

Re: Racism
 

I think it referred to the moderators of this forum, me being one of them!
Well no .... it's not clear! :)
Frankly I like to see these issues out in the open and that can only happen if we see both sides of the story .... which we can't if you're not here to put your side of the story over.

Re: Racism
 

Totally agree with you Mitz.

As I have said earlier everyone is entitled to their own opinion as long as they keep within the rules of the BE forum.
"You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time"

Re: Racism
 

But aren't those "Indian families" not actually British nationals whose "own country" is Britain?

Re: Racism
 

Yes many will be British, but many thousands more probably not, the point being that many other nationals (including Indian) can go to Britain and claim benefits and be housed into accomodation, but can other nationals (including Britons) be given benefits or housing in India, a definetly No No.

Re: Racism
 

Are you sure that Indians can go to Britain and claim benefits/be housed?

EU nationals can come to the UK as can asylum seekers, but I am not sure how Indian nationals can, let alone get benefits.

Re: Racism
 

I dont need to answer that, you must be wearing a blindfold if you cant see whats going on in the UK, regarding immigration, illegal or otherwise.

Re: Racism
 

The most truthful post i have seen on this forum for a long time.
I shall leave it at that and post no more but i totally agree with this opinion.

Re: Racism
 

Clearly it's PC gone mad and all that, but I am still not sure how an Indian national moves to the UK and gets benefits? Can you help me raise my blindfold and show me how they manage this?

Re: Racism
 

Cape Blue there is a new way of Goans applying for a Portugese passport and then moving to Portugal and because Portugal are in the EU, that person then moves to the UK and claims anything and everything this is a fact and a loophole that is being abused.

Re: Racism
 

Hi, Ihave to say that I dont like the racist comments on this site. I think it fair to comment on certain aspects of India , and indeed I have done so. It seems very simplistic and black and white to stereotype all Indians in a negative way. While I really can understand peoples frustrations the ' pond life' comment is racist and not necessary. It is perhaps important to remember that Goans/ Indians are oppressed by their own Govt. Perhaps living in India makes you more aware of this. On the other hand corruption in the UK is way, way, less than corruption in India, which is cradle to grave. Most Uk citizens will never be expected to pay a bribe, FACT.

I do think that our fight against injustice (and I think it will cost me everything literally) should always keep in mind the Indians who are not empowered. For those of us who love/loved India/ Goa lets not resort to name calling of all Indians.

Keep perspective, r

Re: Racism
 

Ah, I see, so they are actually Portugese EU nationals who are able to obtain some UK benefits as part of the EU.

Re: Racism
 

About as much Portugese as I am Chinese, I know people who were bragging about getting Portugese passports and they couldnt even speak Portugese and they said that it was only to get to Britain and have their words a cushy life on benefits and when they get settled to bring the rest of their families over, our ponds are already full of frogs and newts who are british and never claim benefits, sometimes the newts get pissed and the frogs hop it but we are used to our pond life.

Re: Racism
 

Any idea what benefits EU nationals can claim in the UK and how much they are?

Re: Racism
 

Why not go down to the social security and ask...i should give Swindon a miss i would imagine that's bursting at the seams.

Re: Racism
 

This is getting into dangerous waters.Full of stereotyping and personal observations that have been twisted into so-called facts.Its as if i am reading The Daily Mail and Richard Littlejohn`s rants.Little England rears its ugly head.EDL or BNP anybody, come on own up......? Its not against the law !

Re: Racism
 

Rightly or wrongly this thread was started with the above post.
Now it is getting into dangerous waters,:frown: please keep to the theme of the thread and leave out benefits etc, or I will have no compunction than to close the thread. Thank you.

Re: Racism
 

It just seems that everyone "knows" that (in this case) EU immigrants can live a "cushy life" on UK benefits, but no one seems to know what those benefits are and how much they are worth.

Do you have any links to this legislation whereby Goan's can become Portugese nationals - seems extraordinary that it would be so easy.

oops, sorry Noni, didn't read your post before responding, as you were.

Re: Racism
 

Re: Is there a way to get to USA permanent ?

In case you haven't gathered yet, this is not the "we hate black/brown or any other colour, people" board. Why don't you sod off to the BNP website and post your bile.
<
Above is a past Cape Blue post,
I suggest you get a life and stop burying your head in the sand, no wonder people join the BNP with people like you about, pure racist to everyone but yourself.

Re: Racism
 

Good of you to look back through my posts and all.

That thread was back in 2006 & the other poster at the time was saying things like:

He/she got a 5-day ban that day, but then came back later with such delights as:

He was then banned permanently.

I am not exactly sure how exactly my post could be called racist when I seem to be telling the other poster that this is not the "we hate black/brown or any other colour people board", as in, this is not somewhere to spout racist rubbish like he was.

Anyway, I am not sure I understand how me asking if anyone knew the type and amount of benefits paid to EU citizens in the UK makes me "burying my head in the sand", incentivising people to join the BNP or being "pure racist to everyone but myself" (not even sure I understand that?).

I am just asking the obvious question, if Goan's are incentivised to obtain Portugese citizenship (however that might be) and then travel to the UK for the rich gravy train of UK benefits, then how much are these benefits that incentivises this behavior?

That doesn't seem an unreasonable question, nor does asking for any details on how Portugal so freely allows citizens from ex-colonies to become Portugese.

Noni - please feel free to tell me to stop responding if you don't want this line of discussion to continue.

Re: Racism
 

Cape Blue - Yes. please stop responding in this vein. I was just going to pm you.
You are welcome on the Goa site, but please keep this thread as it was intended, and that goes for everybody else The thread seems to have been hijacked, a grown up debate would be appreciated.

Re: Racism
 

In my humble opinion, the way this discussion is going at the moment won't lead anywhere.
All it does is make emotions boil up and lead to ad-hominem arguments.

As far as I am concerned, J5 was spot on.

Racism has got nothing to do with the whole discussion. If anything, Xenophobia
would be a much better term.
I don't believe skin colour is the issue here.

About the Portuguese passport thing:
Portugal never officially acknowledged the Goan "Liberation" by Indian armed forces. "Operation Vijay" was also not sanctioned by the UN.
India took what they thought was theirs by force, and that's that.
As to the best of my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong here), at the time, Goa was not a colony; it was officially a part of Portugal.

As a consequence (and given the fact that a referendum was never held), Portugal considers people born in Goa before "Liberation", and their children and grandchildren, to be Portuguese citizens (or even victims of a hostile occupation force) to this day.

In the light of this, it is only natural that Goans who meet the requirements can apply for Portuguese passports.

Now, because of EU legislation, every European has the right to freely move within the European Union territory. Nothing wrong with that.
I've spoken to a couple who went to England on their Portuguese passports, they said, they'd be treated like dogs in Portugal, so they moved on.
I won't comment on that, as I can't really tell.

Now calling each other names and playing the "racist" card surely won't help any of us, so I suggest we try to avoid that sort of stuff... :unsure:

Re: Racism
 

Yes I agree, it just seems that Cape Blue has a tendency to want should I say lively debates with anyone about anything and if its not constructive its not needed, thats all I have left on this topic.
Goodnight all.

Re: Racism
 

Have deliberately kept quiet for a while and watched the thread develop.

Quite frankly Mr/Mrs/Ms Cape Blue, I feel you have hi-jacked a potentially focussed thread to bang your own particular drum. Like Tarkacreek I have also referred back and clearly this is what you like to do?

Your questions (provocations) regarding benefits available in the UK are totally ridiculous. Although the UK is far too free and easy with dishing out benefits, it generally takes into account individual circumstances so these repetitive requests for potential benefit levels are nothing but silly wind-ups, designed to provoke the sort of reactions you clearly crave.

In view of this. can I politely request that you go away and let this thread return to "topic", rather than risk destroying a potentially meaningful discussion?

Thank you and have a nice day......


(ps, One of our well educated and erudite members has pointed out to me privately that the concept of the Aryans originating in India is a myth perpetuated by two prominent fascist organisations.......Mr A Hitlers Genetic Cleansing Glee Club, and their natural successors in todays India, the cuddly BJP. Before you disagree...........read up on it, especially BJP tenets)

While I was typing this epic Noni, Tarkacreek and especially Germanfool have posted...............agree with all you have said, especially Mr Germanfool. Your username is just so inaccurate as you are clearly "nobody's fool" as we say in the UK, but clearly an erudite and balanced member of this form.

love and peas
J5

Milwart is banned from contributing to this thread, by the way.


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Re: Racism
 

Thank you, J5! :)

I'm still a fool, 'cause I allowed myself to get fooled big time by Goan advocates and officials, but let's not beat a dead horse here.

It indeed is. Repeating that BS all over and over again doesn't make it any more true or less false.

The "Aryans" came from the shores of the Black Sea (originally possibly even from some hill in the Ural Mountains) and in their proto-indoeuropean language the word simply meant "man".
"Iran" is derived from the very same word.
They invaded what is now North India in prehistoric times and pushed the Dravidians southwards.
At the same time, their language spread towards the West, whether by means of war or simply by means of word is still being discussed and we might never find out.

Re: Racism
 

Flog, my friend, flog.................


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Re: Racism
 

Thanks for the Goa/Portugal information, most interesting.

Re: Racism
 

I don't think my comments were especially argumentative (and unlike others, I have avoided the ad hominem), I was merely reading a thread and someone posited that Goan's were moving to the UK to claim "anything and everything" and have "a cushy life on benefits".

All I asked was what were those benefits as, as far as I can remember, unemployment/job seekers type benefits were about GBP60 a week and many Brits who have recently been made unemployed complain about the low-levels of benefits.

Anyway, back to the topic of race, as you were.

Re: Racism
 

For what it's worth My personal view is that most people on here probably started going to Goa on shorter holidays, loved the friendliness, the laid back feel of the place, and other good things about Goa, and had no need to look beyond the surface.
Many folks went there to live their dream in a place they had come to love, and many were seduced by the advertising and encouragement to invest there.
For a few years many found a happy life, until the tide turned at the hands of the government and the inception of the DoE. At that point many people who had accepted Goa at face value were forced to then see the darker side of Goa - the visible corruption, the visible greed and the realisation of the deception played out at professional level by licensed professional people such as lawyers, accountants, politicians, government employees etc.

Most folks probably had no reason to see this side of Goa before this time. Beforehand, the small cons on the beach, the giving sweets instead of cash change, the sob stories of relatives in need, the requests to bring gifts from the UK etc etc. were just viewed as eccentricities, but now became more noticable when coupled with the realisation that Goa was corrupt at the top of the tree, and the Expats were not really welcome there as they had believed.
When people are forced to become embroiled in the nasty aspects of a place their views are bound to be altered, and for many who have suffered because of this they will have become embittered. Remember the saying 'love and hate - two sides of the same coin'?
I believe that just because someone who has been to a place criticises that place and the general behaviours of its' people, they are not being racist, merely expressing a viewpoint based on what they have seen or experienced.

For those who have not had to face such problems, you can empathise, but you can never truly feel what those who have suffered do.
Before we castigate someone as a racist, let's just stop and consider why they turned from loving a place enough to set up home there to having nothing good to say about it ?

The racist is the hater with no reason or cause to hate, the person who hates without knowledge or experience.

Dread - philosophical
x