F.E.M.A. and all that
Jan 1st 2010 | 7:03 am
#31
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,685
Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
wheatsheaf :Some are citizens , and many, like my neighbours in Goa who work most of the year in the UK, are not. Yes, it is relatively easy to gain British citizenship through naturalisation and extend that citizenship by marriage, and you can always run to Brussels playing the race card about your human rights when all else fails.
I have not forgotten anything 'conveniently' as you assert; please further inform on how 'most (Goans) who are resident in the UK, have been central to British prosperity not just for decades, but for centuries.' Historically, I can only see an argument in Europe that they may have contributed to Portugese prosperity 'for centuries'.
I do not believe some 60,000 persons of Goan origin are 'central' to anything within a UK population in excess of 60 million, whether they are citizens or not. This is a more generous position than the Indian Government and the State Government of Goa who evidently do not wish to contemplate any notion of a Goan person of British origin (NRI's and PIO's aside), residing and/or working there, contributing to 'prosperity', and are beyond doubt finding some 500 foreigners in a population of 1.2 billion inordinately 'central'!
There is nothing 'Idi Amin' about my thinking; am I advocating that we torch Swindon?
Contemporary Britain remains a benevolent nation through the very fact that at some point it extended citizenship and all the attendant priveleges to not only Goans, but persons worldwide, and it continues to do so.
Since the focus of Indian resentment regards property seems to be Goa; this hostility instigated by clueless and only self serving Goan politicians regards the rule of law, and the hand of Central Government has been forced to come to a clarification of FEMA which in practice will prove retrospectively harmful to foreigners who were misled to believe they were acting within the law, then the UK government by rights or impulse should have equal free hand to amend and adjust its rule of law. Who gets caught in the crossfire is down to diplomacy. Likewise with visa and immigration policy, including citizenship and the right to take up employment, study or conduct business.
If you contemplate being at the sharp end of the sabre rattling that is coming out of India against British interests then I'm sure those 'generations' of British Goans you speak of will be unequivocal in their shared sense of outrage, so let's hear it from the 'allies'.....duh!
I have not forgotten anything 'conveniently' as you assert; please further inform on how 'most (Goans) who are resident in the UK, have been central to British prosperity not just for decades, but for centuries.' Historically, I can only see an argument in Europe that they may have contributed to Portugese prosperity 'for centuries'.
I do not believe some 60,000 persons of Goan origin are 'central' to anything within a UK population in excess of 60 million, whether they are citizens or not. This is a more generous position than the Indian Government and the State Government of Goa who evidently do not wish to contemplate any notion of a Goan person of British origin (NRI's and PIO's aside), residing and/or working there, contributing to 'prosperity', and are beyond doubt finding some 500 foreigners in a population of 1.2 billion inordinately 'central'!
There is nothing 'Idi Amin' about my thinking; am I advocating that we torch Swindon?
Contemporary Britain remains a benevolent nation through the very fact that at some point it extended citizenship and all the attendant priveleges to not only Goans, but persons worldwide, and it continues to do so.
Since the focus of Indian resentment regards property seems to be Goa; this hostility instigated by clueless and only self serving Goan politicians regards the rule of law, and the hand of Central Government has been forced to come to a clarification of FEMA which in practice will prove retrospectively harmful to foreigners who were misled to believe they were acting within the law, then the UK government by rights or impulse should have equal free hand to amend and adjust its rule of law. Who gets caught in the crossfire is down to diplomacy. Likewise with visa and immigration policy, including citizenship and the right to take up employment, study or conduct business.
If you contemplate being at the sharp end of the sabre rattling that is coming out of India against British interests then I'm sure those 'generations' of British Goans you speak of will be unequivocal in their shared sense of outrage, so let's hear it from the 'allies'.....duh!
They affect all FNs. Its not a them and us issue!
Over 50 British Goans/Indians did rally round and support us by signing our No.10 petition and Eddie Fernandes Of Goan Voice consistently published stories regarding the FN plight, signed the petition and sent messages of support.
I think its a bit rich to ask them to rally around now after the things that have been written about them over the past 6 months.
Jan 1st 2010 | 8:13 am
#32
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 701
Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
wheatsheaf :Some are citizens , and many, like my neighbours in Goa who work most of the year in the UK, are not. Yes, it is relatively easy to gain British citizenship through naturalisation and extend that citizenship by marriage, and you can always run to Brussels playing the race card about your human rights when all else fails.
I have not forgotten anything 'conveniently' as you assert; please further inform on how 'most (Goans) who are resident in the UK, have been central to British prosperity not just for decades, but for centuries.' Historically, I can only see an argument in Europe that they may have contributed to Portugese prosperity 'for centuries'.
I do not believe some 60,000 persons of Goan origin are 'central' to anything within a UK population in excess of 60 million, whether they are citizens or not. This is a more generous position than the Indian Government and the State Government of Goa who evidently do not wish to contemplate any notion of a Goan person of British origin (NRI's and PIO's aside), residing and/or working there, contributing to 'prosperity', and are beyond doubt finding some 500 foreigners in a population of 1.2 billion inordinately 'central'!
There is nothing 'Idi Amin' about my thinking; am I advocating that we torch Swindon?
Contemporary Britain remains a benevolent nation through the very fact that at some point it extended citizenship and all the attendant priveleges to not only Goans, but persons worldwide, and it continues to do so.
Since the focus of Indian resentment regards property seems to be Goa; this hostility instigated by clueless and only self serving Goan politicians regards the rule of law, and the hand of Central Government has been forced to come to a clarification of FEMA which in practice will prove retrospectively harmful to foreigners who were misled to believe they were acting within the law, then the UK government by rights or impulse should have equal free hand to amend and adjust its rule of law. Who gets caught in the crossfire is down to diplomacy. Likewise with visa and immigration policy, including citizenship and the right to take up employment, study or conduct business.
If you contemplate being at the sharp end of the sabre rattling that is coming out of India against British interests then I'm sure those 'generations' of British Goans you speak of will be unequivocal in their shared sense of outrage, so let's hear it from the 'allies' .....duh!
I have not forgotten anything 'conveniently' as you assert; please further inform on how 'most (Goans) who are resident in the UK, have been central to British prosperity not just for decades, but for centuries.' Historically, I can only see an argument in Europe that they may have contributed to Portugese prosperity 'for centuries'.
I do not believe some 60,000 persons of Goan origin are 'central' to anything within a UK population in excess of 60 million, whether they are citizens or not. This is a more generous position than the Indian Government and the State Government of Goa who evidently do not wish to contemplate any notion of a Goan person of British origin (NRI's and PIO's aside), residing and/or working there, contributing to 'prosperity', and are beyond doubt finding some 500 foreigners in a population of 1.2 billion inordinately 'central'!
There is nothing 'Idi Amin' about my thinking; am I advocating that we torch Swindon?
Contemporary Britain remains a benevolent nation through the very fact that at some point it extended citizenship and all the attendant priveleges to not only Goans, but persons worldwide, and it continues to do so.
Since the focus of Indian resentment regards property seems to be Goa; this hostility instigated by clueless and only self serving Goan politicians regards the rule of law, and the hand of Central Government has been forced to come to a clarification of FEMA which in practice will prove retrospectively harmful to foreigners who were misled to believe they were acting within the law, then the UK government by rights or impulse should have equal free hand to amend and adjust its rule of law. Who gets caught in the crossfire is down to diplomacy. Likewise with visa and immigration policy, including citizenship and the right to take up employment, study or conduct business.
If you contemplate being at the sharp end of the sabre rattling that is coming out of India against British interests then I'm sure those 'generations' of British Goans you speak of will be unequivocal in their shared sense of outrage, so let's hear it from the 'allies' .....duh!
Anyone who knows the historical relationship between Goa and Britain, as distinct to that of India and Britain, will understand that your emotional outbursts are misdirected. The current situation is a reflection of the huge changes India is undergoing, and Goa and Goans I think are genuinely flummoxed at the suddenness of it all.
Jan 1st 2010 | 1:14 pm
#33
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 473
Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
Remy, I have nothing except praise for the stalwart job Eddie Fernandes does at goanvoice, and have thanked him personally on several occasions by e mail. His website remains impartial in directing us to news articles and information about the good and bad in Goa. It is a fantastic resource of information, and I respect his individual stance towards those who are embroiled in the Goan property fiasco. I know he does this in the face of openly hostile opposition from Goans and expat Goans on other Goa forums.
wheatsheaf: Likewise, I have no desire for this to degenerate into a redundant, pointless race based debate. That is irrelevant and counter productive; and, yes, I am aware that Goans in the UK often get a raw and exploitative deal.
My invective is aimed primarily at the UK diplomats who are paid to represent us and yet seem unable to disentangle what, in the broader context of Indian Home Affairs or Domestic Policy is little more than a non malarial mosquito bite on the arm of a burgeoning superpower.
I do not seek that India should open its doors fully to foreign property ownership: I simply implore that they clean up the present property limbo for foreigners in Goa, allow people to sell at fair market value and remove themselves, problem all gone, then clarify and impose their legislation uniformly and make certain all authorities are informed including advocates, agents, accountants, builders, politicians, registrars, mamladtars and the general populace who have been happily selling their properties to foreigners and 'out of Staters'. Job done, and no lingering resentment!
In diplomacy, behind closed doors (or shouting through the media), oftentimes threats are the way in which to reach solution or compromise, whether you agree with the sentiments expressed or not. It is a travesty of justice that we should have reached this point, since it could all be dealt with swiftly and quietly if the political will and competence were put in place.
wheatsheaf: Likewise, I have no desire for this to degenerate into a redundant, pointless race based debate. That is irrelevant and counter productive; and, yes, I am aware that Goans in the UK often get a raw and exploitative deal.
My invective is aimed primarily at the UK diplomats who are paid to represent us and yet seem unable to disentangle what, in the broader context of Indian Home Affairs or Domestic Policy is little more than a non malarial mosquito bite on the arm of a burgeoning superpower.
I do not seek that India should open its doors fully to foreign property ownership: I simply implore that they clean up the present property limbo for foreigners in Goa, allow people to sell at fair market value and remove themselves, problem all gone, then clarify and impose their legislation uniformly and make certain all authorities are informed including advocates, agents, accountants, builders, politicians, registrars, mamladtars and the general populace who have been happily selling their properties to foreigners and 'out of Staters'. Job done, and no lingering resentment!
In diplomacy, behind closed doors (or shouting through the media), oftentimes threats are the way in which to reach solution or compromise, whether you agree with the sentiments expressed or not. It is a travesty of justice that we should have reached this point, since it could all be dealt with swiftly and quietly if the political will and competence were put in place.
Jan 2nd 2010 | 2:05 am
#34
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 701
Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
Remy, I have nothing except praise for the stalwart job Eddie Fernandes does at goanvoice, and have thanked him personally on several occasions by e mail. His website remains impartial in directing us to news articles and information about the good and bad in Goa. It is a fantastic resource of information, and I respect his individual stance towards those who are embroiled in the Goan property fiasco. I know he does this in the face of openly hostile opposition from Goans and expat Goans on other Goa forums.
wheatsheaf: Likewise, I have no desire for this to degenerate into a redundant, pointless race based debate. That is irrelevant and counter productive; and, yes, I am aware that Goans in the UK often get a raw and exploitative deal.
My invective is aimed primarily at the UK diplomats who are paid to represent us and yet seem unable to disentangle what, in the broader context of Indian Home Affairs or Domestic Policy is little more than a non malarial mosquito bite on the arm of a burgeoning superpower.
I do not seek that India should open its doors fully to foreign property ownership: I simply implore that they clean up the present property limbo for foreigners in Goa, allow people to sell at fair market value and remove themselves, problem all gone, then clarify and impose their legislation uniformly and make certain all authorities are informed including advocates, agents, accountants, builders, politicians, registrars, mamladtars and the general populace who have been happily selling their properties to foreigners and 'out of Staters'. Job done, and no lingering resentment!
In diplomacy, behind closed doors (or shouting through the media), oftentimes threats are the way in which to reach solution or compromise, whether you agree with the sentiments expressed or not. It is a travesty of justice that we should have reached this point, since it could all be dealt with swiftly and quietly if the political will and competence were put in place.
wheatsheaf: Likewise, I have no desire for this to degenerate into a redundant, pointless race based debate. That is irrelevant and counter productive; and, yes, I am aware that Goans in the UK often get a raw and exploitative deal.
My invective is aimed primarily at the UK diplomats who are paid to represent us and yet seem unable to disentangle what, in the broader context of Indian Home Affairs or Domestic Policy is little more than a non malarial mosquito bite on the arm of a burgeoning superpower.
I do not seek that India should open its doors fully to foreign property ownership: I simply implore that they clean up the present property limbo for foreigners in Goa, allow people to sell at fair market value and remove themselves, problem all gone, then clarify and impose their legislation uniformly and make certain all authorities are informed including advocates, agents, accountants, builders, politicians, registrars, mamladtars and the general populace who have been happily selling their properties to foreigners and 'out of Staters'. Job done, and no lingering resentment!
In diplomacy, behind closed doors (or shouting through the media), oftentimes threats are the way in which to reach solution or compromise, whether you agree with the sentiments expressed or not. It is a travesty of justice that we should have reached this point, since it could all be dealt with swiftly and quietly if the political will and competence were put in place.
Jan 2nd 2010 | 5:00 am
#35
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,227
From: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
Re: F.E.M.A. and all that
Phew!!!!. Thank goodness we have arrived at the same place at the same time. Completely agree with you. Moreover, it ultimately benefits India itself, if the rules are clear and justice is seen to be impartial. The fair minded, principled Indians will come forward and get this resolved......we have to get them to act sooner rather than later.
Let us hope that the Government let us either sell up and leave or leave us in peace to enjoy the rest of our short lives.
