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Re: Anna Hazare
Surely Mr Hazere is just a pawn of the BJP, with most Indians (and me ?) not understanding the 'Bill' which should be decided by elected government, not underhanded blackmail by BJ PARTY which is winning either by his life or his death (in death the disturbances or rioting will be blamed on gov.)
As for the marchers most have have to take responsibility for corruption, just those at the top are better at it. Don't pay the policeman 50rs bribe for no helmet on the highway, go to court and be fined, spend 6hrs in the RTO office only to be told come back 2moro, don't pay the bribe to have your work done etc. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by gregit
(Post 9578069)
Surely Mr Hazere is just a pawn of the BJP, with most Indians (and me ?) not understanding the 'Bill' which should be decided by elected government, not underhanded blackmail by BJ PARTY which is winning either by his life or his death (in death the disturbances or rioting will be blamed on gov.)
As for the marchers most have have to take responsibility for corruption, just those at the top are better at it. Don't pay the policeman 50rs bribe for no helmet on the highway, go to court and be fined, spend 6hrs in the RTO office only to be told come back 2moro, don't pay the bribe to have your work done etc. Dread - x |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by gregit
(Post 9578069)
Surely Mr Hazere is just a pawn of the BJP, with most Indians (and me ?) not understanding the 'Bill' which should be decided by elected government, not underhanded blackmail by BJ PARTY which is winning either by his life or his death (in death the disturbances or rioting will be blamed on gov.)
As for the marchers most have have to take responsibility for corruption, just those at the top are better at it. Don't pay the policeman 50rs bribe for no helmet on the highway, go to court and be fined, spend 6hrs in the RTO office only to be told come back 2moro, don't pay the bribe to have your work done etc. As to people paying bribes, if you live your life in India, it is not possible to keep going to court, or not get things done if you have to go to work and run your home. Corruption affects people even if they don't pay, eg in Mumbai an appartment block being rebuilt because of flood damage, the builder who has bought the block is not being given planning permission unless he gives one of the new flats to the planning officer. (equiv. of £100,000). So the occupants (renting) are in limbo, they have already moved out into temporary accommodation for the rebuild. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 9578643)
Anna Hazare is not a pawn of the BJP, he has been a social activist most of his life (any opposition party would take advantage of the situation but BJP have stated they don't agree with all his plans). The government which retains power by buying votes is hardly an 'elected government', this is also a movement for electoral reform.
As to people paying bribes, if you live your life in India, it is not possible to keep going to court, or not get things done if you have to go to work and run your home. Corruption affects people even if they don't pay, eg in Mumbai an appartment block being rebuilt because of flood damage, the builder who has bought the block is not being given planning permission unless he gives one of the new flats to the planning officer. (equiv. of £100,000). So the occupants (renting) are in limbo, they have already moved out into temporary accommodation for the rebuild. Buying votes is common, which is my point the responsibility for corruption goes right to the bottom of the chain So lets get this straight when people break the law it's ok to pay a bribe as they don't have time to go to court:huh: appears to be what you are saying. As for your example could also be read as, builder had already agreed to give the flat to the planning officer, but due to the rebuild could not afford to give, but who knows what arrangements had been made before the builder started his original works |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by gregit
(Post 9578826)
I thought the BJP (BNP ?) were known for organising mass rallies,physical attacks on women in public places,in bars, or for dressing wrongly. Now associated with funding Mr Hazere, providing medics from private hospitals etc more than just 'taking advantage of the situation' actively funding.
Buying votes is common, which is my point the responsibility for corruption goes right to the bottom of the chain So lets get this straight when people break the law it's ok to pay a bribe as they don't have time to go to court:huh: appears to be what you are saying. As for your example could also be read as, builder had already agreed to give the flat to the planning officer, but due to the rebuild could not afford to give, but who knows what arrangements had been made before the builder started his original works People on subsistance level of living are going to vote if given money whoever gives it. Those with some sort of integrity wouldn't ask for it. Bribes: the police ask for bribes when you haven't broken the law, that's what I meant. Example: police in Mumbai stand by traffic lights and accuse people of going through the red lights when they haven't. (The slow speed of traffic makes it easy to get to the driver). I have personal knowledge of the building example, in fact the builder is a very honest man he is building a 6 floor block on previous 3 floor site, getting his profit that way. He is giving the tenants a flat each. I suppose that could be a 'bribe' but it is to the advantage of all.. and he didn't have to. I imagine it is a matter of negotiation how much planning officer will take etc. In general though corruption is top/down, 'I paid him so you pay me'. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 9578889)
Gregit the episodes you describe were small groups of lunatics acting in name of BJP, yes certainly there are ultra right wing people in that party, but this anticorruption movement started before Anna Hazari became involved.
People on subsistance level of living are going to vote if given money whoever gives it. Those with some sort of integrity wouldn't ask for it. Bribes: the police ask for bribes when you haven't broken the law, that's what I meant. Example: police in Mumbai stand by traffic lights and accuse people of going through the red lights when they haven't. (The slow speed of traffic makes it easy to get to the driver). I have personal knowledge of the building example, in fact the builder is a very honest man he is building a 6 floor block on previous 3 floor site, getting his profit that way. He is giving the tenants a flat each. I suppose that could be a 'bribe' but it is to the advantage of all.. and he didn't have to. I imagine it is a matter of negotiation how much planning officer will take etc. In general though corruption is top/down, 'I paid him so you pay me'. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by noni
(Post 9578939)
You will never stop corruption in India in a million years, unfortunately it is a way of life.
As PrestonJohn says in the 'UK riot thread', change is not going to happen overnight, but at least a beginning could be made. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 9579128)
For many Noni it is a way of life that they have no choice about, at least millions of people have been out on the streets trying to start a change and influence this corrupt Government. Do you watch NDTV? can get it if you have Sky.
As PrestonJohn says in the 'UK riot thread', change is not going to happen overnight, but at least a beginning could be made. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by noni
(Post 9578939)
You will never stop corruption in India in a million years, unfortunately it is a way of life.
And those that turn up have all been fed in Delhi, which must be great for the poorer, but where is the conscience of eating in front of a starving man |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by gregit
(Post 9579169)
As you say Noni, evidently it also involves changing part of the 'Indian Constitution' (just for those on uk riot thread) in many areas. And where are the 'MILLIONS' Bipat ???
And those that turn up have all been fed in Delhi, which must be great for the poorer, but where is the conscience of eating in front of a starving man Look at the TV Gregit, read the local newspapers. Mumbai, Pune, Hyderabad, Chennai even Panjim etc. etc. people coming out to give their support. Now back at work for most, but we will see what happens next weekend. Many, many are middleclass. All been fed in Delhi, really !!!!!!! |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by noni
(Post 9579149)
Hi Bipat, unfortunately I am not on social benefit so cannot afford Sky! :rolleyes: (joke)
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Re: Anna Hazare
The Times of India
JUST IN: Anna Hazare says he is ready to go to jail. Anna appeals to supporters to remain calm, tells them not to stop government from taking him away. Govt might forcefully take away Anna Hazare to some other place tonight, says Arvind Kejriwal http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...ow/9725342.cms |
Re: Anna Hazare
Look at the TV Gregit, read the local newspapers. Mumbai, Pune, Hyderabad, Chennai even Panjim etc. etc. people coming out to give their support. Now back at work for most, but we will see what happens next weekend. Many, many are middleclass. All been fed in Delhi, really !!!!!!![/QUOTE]
Breakfast,lunch and dinner for the 1 lakh. people who attended really !!!!!!! http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...ow/9690577.cms |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by gregit
(Post 9580094)
Look at the TV Gregit, read the local newspapers. Mumbai, Pune, Hyderabad, Chennai even Panjim etc. etc. people coming out to give their support. Now back at work for most, but we will see what happens next weekend. Many, many are middleclass. All been fed in Delhi, really !!!!!!!
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...ow/9690577.cms[/QUOTE] Apologies I also have just found the report on the 'kitchen' which was set up on Sunday. But the 1 Lakh crowd was in one city on one afternoon. There have been demonstrations on each day in many cities as I said above. In fact the anti-corruption movement was started months ago. The Government has just delayed discussions, probably waiting for Sonia to come home. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Breakfast,lunch and dinner for the 1 lakh. people who attended really !!!!!!! . |
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