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Anna Hazare
Extract from Guardian article - full article here
" Tens of thousands of people took to the streets across India on Tuesday to protest against the arrest of Anna Hazare, the country's most prominent anti-corruption campaigner and more than 1,000 of his followers. Opposition politicians accused Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's beleaguered administration, currently in the middle of its second term, of repeating draconian crackdowns of the 1970s or the actions of British former imperial rulers. "This is murder of democracy," said Arun Jaitley, a senior leader of the opposition Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP). About Anna Hazare |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by oktata
(Post 9564837)
Extract from Guardian article - full article here
" Tens of thousands of people took to the streets across India on Tuesday to protest against the arrest of Anna Hazare, the country's most prominent anti-corruption campaigner and more than 1,000 of his followers. Opposition politicians accused Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's beleaguered administration, currently in the middle of its second term, of repeating draconian crackdowns of the 1970s or the actions of British former imperial rulers. "This is murder of democracy," said Arun Jaitley, a senior leader of the opposition Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP). About Anna Hazare Why am I not surprised by the arrest of Anna Hazare? Obviously the powers that be fel threatened by the possibility of being found out! Dread - x |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by dreadsoc
(Post 9565727)
Why am I not surprised by the arrest of Anna Hazare?
Obviously the powers that be fel threatened by the possibility of being found out! Dread - x imagine an India without corruption and the underground economy (black money) ! |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by oktata
(Post 9565866)
corruption is so deeply entrenched in the system that indian society, government, business and what have you are worried how things will work without it ! the power that be are terrified of the transparency and accountability that anna hazares lokpal bill aims to bring ;).
imagine an India without corruption and the underground economy (black money) ! What is amazing is the thousands of young people on the streets, calling for change. People from all parts of society grabbing the microphones of reporters and challenging the government. |
Re: Anna Hazare
although very commendable, does he really think his fast or a few rallies are going to change anything.
If they are serious about geting rid of corruption then they need to vote in people who are honest (rocking horse sh*t comes to mind) and not tolerate the cops etc taking back handers all the time To be honest its so entrnenched here i wonder if its ever possible After all just look at the UK, not exactly whiter than white when it comes to corrupt politicians etc |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by kernowpisky
(Post 9566857)
although very commendable, does he really think his fast or a few rallies are going to change anything.
If they are serious about geting rid of corruption then they need to vote in people who are honest (rocking horse sh*t comes to mind) and not tolerate the cops etc taking back handers all the time To be honest its so entrnenched here i wonder if its ever possible After all just look at the UK, not exactly whiter than white when it comes to corrupt politicians etc Hopefully this time something will come of it. Ordinary people have had enough of corruption. Heard of someone last week who had to pay an 'extra' for a death certificate. No way out of this it had to be paid if the funeral was to take place. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 9570772)
http://www.thehindu.com/news/nationa...cle2375698.ece
Hopefully this time something will come of it. Ordinary people have had enough of corruption. Heard of someone last week who had to pay an 'extra' for a death certificate. No way out of this it had to be paid if the funeral was to take place. Dread - x |
Re: Anna Hazare
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Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 9572497)
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Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by k800mer
(Post 9575008)
It is good that they are peaceful demonstrations of course but there are lots of peaceful demonstrations that take place in the uk every year, they just are not so newsworthy as those that get turned into riots by a small number of thugs.
If you have Sky TV you can watch NDTV and see the events unfolding. I am surprised so few comments on this forum. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 9575025)
I know K800; what Oktata and myself were trying to convey is the amazing happenings in India that are going on at the moment. They are happening as I write; millions are taking to the streets supporting the anti-corruption movement also demanding electoral reform. If anything comes of this it will be so important.
If you have Sky TV you can watch NDTV and see the events unfolding. I am surprised so few comments on this forum. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by k800mer
(Post 9575135)
I really hope these peaceful demonstrators are successful but corruption is so endemic in India that unless it comes from the top down which would mean a lot of corrupt Indians (politicians for instance) getting an attack of conscience and renouncing their corrupt ways nothing is going to happen. First they need strong anti corruption laws then they need an incorruptible police force to enforce those laws no matter who is breaking them. Very very difficult, even in the UK corruption is everywhere although it is not so bad as in India where it is easy to pay off a policemen if you get stopped.
The support and number of people taking to the streets has been unprecedented. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 9575174)
That's the point of Anna Hazare's movement, he and supporters think the proposed Lokpal Bill is not adequate, they want a tougher Bill to target those at the top. Also electoral reform, at the moment the Congress Party seems to run on 'black money', (It is alleged).
The support and number of people taking to the streets has been unprecedented. |
Re: Anna Hazare
I know this may be playing devils advocate, but corruption runs through India at just about every level - even down to the small shops overcharging given a chance...... how many of the demonstrators would actually want corruption completely eradicated, at every level? Or do they just want corruption stopped within authority.
Just something that popped in my mind when I read this. That said - what this guy is doing is truly commendable in my eyes and I hope he can at least start the process of change. Dread - x |
Re: Anna Hazare
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...ow/9710916.cms
Join campaign for a strong Lokpal law to make India corruption-free Anna's health worsens, refuses hospitalization |
Re: Anna Hazare
Surely Mr Hazere is just a pawn of the BJP, with most Indians (and me ?) not understanding the 'Bill' which should be decided by elected government, not underhanded blackmail by BJ PARTY which is winning either by his life or his death (in death the disturbances or rioting will be blamed on gov.)
As for the marchers most have have to take responsibility for corruption, just those at the top are better at it. Don't pay the policeman 50rs bribe for no helmet on the highway, go to court and be fined, spend 6hrs in the RTO office only to be told come back 2moro, don't pay the bribe to have your work done etc. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by gregit
(Post 9578069)
Surely Mr Hazere is just a pawn of the BJP, with most Indians (and me ?) not understanding the 'Bill' which should be decided by elected government, not underhanded blackmail by BJ PARTY which is winning either by his life or his death (in death the disturbances or rioting will be blamed on gov.)
As for the marchers most have have to take responsibility for corruption, just those at the top are better at it. Don't pay the policeman 50rs bribe for no helmet on the highway, go to court and be fined, spend 6hrs in the RTO office only to be told come back 2moro, don't pay the bribe to have your work done etc. Dread - x |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by gregit
(Post 9578069)
Surely Mr Hazere is just a pawn of the BJP, with most Indians (and me ?) not understanding the 'Bill' which should be decided by elected government, not underhanded blackmail by BJ PARTY which is winning either by his life or his death (in death the disturbances or rioting will be blamed on gov.)
As for the marchers most have have to take responsibility for corruption, just those at the top are better at it. Don't pay the policeman 50rs bribe for no helmet on the highway, go to court and be fined, spend 6hrs in the RTO office only to be told come back 2moro, don't pay the bribe to have your work done etc. As to people paying bribes, if you live your life in India, it is not possible to keep going to court, or not get things done if you have to go to work and run your home. Corruption affects people even if they don't pay, eg in Mumbai an appartment block being rebuilt because of flood damage, the builder who has bought the block is not being given planning permission unless he gives one of the new flats to the planning officer. (equiv. of £100,000). So the occupants (renting) are in limbo, they have already moved out into temporary accommodation for the rebuild. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 9578643)
Anna Hazare is not a pawn of the BJP, he has been a social activist most of his life (any opposition party would take advantage of the situation but BJP have stated they don't agree with all his plans). The government which retains power by buying votes is hardly an 'elected government', this is also a movement for electoral reform.
As to people paying bribes, if you live your life in India, it is not possible to keep going to court, or not get things done if you have to go to work and run your home. Corruption affects people even if they don't pay, eg in Mumbai an appartment block being rebuilt because of flood damage, the builder who has bought the block is not being given planning permission unless he gives one of the new flats to the planning officer. (equiv. of £100,000). So the occupants (renting) are in limbo, they have already moved out into temporary accommodation for the rebuild. Buying votes is common, which is my point the responsibility for corruption goes right to the bottom of the chain So lets get this straight when people break the law it's ok to pay a bribe as they don't have time to go to court:huh: appears to be what you are saying. As for your example could also be read as, builder had already agreed to give the flat to the planning officer, but due to the rebuild could not afford to give, but who knows what arrangements had been made before the builder started his original works |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by gregit
(Post 9578826)
I thought the BJP (BNP ?) were known for organising mass rallies,physical attacks on women in public places,in bars, or for dressing wrongly. Now associated with funding Mr Hazere, providing medics from private hospitals etc more than just 'taking advantage of the situation' actively funding.
Buying votes is common, which is my point the responsibility for corruption goes right to the bottom of the chain So lets get this straight when people break the law it's ok to pay a bribe as they don't have time to go to court:huh: appears to be what you are saying. As for your example could also be read as, builder had already agreed to give the flat to the planning officer, but due to the rebuild could not afford to give, but who knows what arrangements had been made before the builder started his original works People on subsistance level of living are going to vote if given money whoever gives it. Those with some sort of integrity wouldn't ask for it. Bribes: the police ask for bribes when you haven't broken the law, that's what I meant. Example: police in Mumbai stand by traffic lights and accuse people of going through the red lights when they haven't. (The slow speed of traffic makes it easy to get to the driver). I have personal knowledge of the building example, in fact the builder is a very honest man he is building a 6 floor block on previous 3 floor site, getting his profit that way. He is giving the tenants a flat each. I suppose that could be a 'bribe' but it is to the advantage of all.. and he didn't have to. I imagine it is a matter of negotiation how much planning officer will take etc. In general though corruption is top/down, 'I paid him so you pay me'. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 9578889)
Gregit the episodes you describe were small groups of lunatics acting in name of BJP, yes certainly there are ultra right wing people in that party, but this anticorruption movement started before Anna Hazari became involved.
People on subsistance level of living are going to vote if given money whoever gives it. Those with some sort of integrity wouldn't ask for it. Bribes: the police ask for bribes when you haven't broken the law, that's what I meant. Example: police in Mumbai stand by traffic lights and accuse people of going through the red lights when they haven't. (The slow speed of traffic makes it easy to get to the driver). I have personal knowledge of the building example, in fact the builder is a very honest man he is building a 6 floor block on previous 3 floor site, getting his profit that way. He is giving the tenants a flat each. I suppose that could be a 'bribe' but it is to the advantage of all.. and he didn't have to. I imagine it is a matter of negotiation how much planning officer will take etc. In general though corruption is top/down, 'I paid him so you pay me'. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by noni
(Post 9578939)
You will never stop corruption in India in a million years, unfortunately it is a way of life.
As PrestonJohn says in the 'UK riot thread', change is not going to happen overnight, but at least a beginning could be made. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by Bipat
(Post 9579128)
For many Noni it is a way of life that they have no choice about, at least millions of people have been out on the streets trying to start a change and influence this corrupt Government. Do you watch NDTV? can get it if you have Sky.
As PrestonJohn says in the 'UK riot thread', change is not going to happen overnight, but at least a beginning could be made. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by noni
(Post 9578939)
You will never stop corruption in India in a million years, unfortunately it is a way of life.
And those that turn up have all been fed in Delhi, which must be great for the poorer, but where is the conscience of eating in front of a starving man |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by gregit
(Post 9579169)
As you say Noni, evidently it also involves changing part of the 'Indian Constitution' (just for those on uk riot thread) in many areas. And where are the 'MILLIONS' Bipat ???
And those that turn up have all been fed in Delhi, which must be great for the poorer, but where is the conscience of eating in front of a starving man Look at the TV Gregit, read the local newspapers. Mumbai, Pune, Hyderabad, Chennai even Panjim etc. etc. people coming out to give their support. Now back at work for most, but we will see what happens next weekend. Many, many are middleclass. All been fed in Delhi, really !!!!!!! |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by noni
(Post 9579149)
Hi Bipat, unfortunately I am not on social benefit so cannot afford Sky! :rolleyes: (joke)
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Re: Anna Hazare
The Times of India
JUST IN: Anna Hazare says he is ready to go to jail. Anna appeals to supporters to remain calm, tells them not to stop government from taking him away. Govt might forcefully take away Anna Hazare to some other place tonight, says Arvind Kejriwal http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...ow/9725342.cms |
Re: Anna Hazare
Look at the TV Gregit, read the local newspapers. Mumbai, Pune, Hyderabad, Chennai even Panjim etc. etc. people coming out to give their support. Now back at work for most, but we will see what happens next weekend. Many, many are middleclass. All been fed in Delhi, really !!!!!!![/QUOTE]
Breakfast,lunch and dinner for the 1 lakh. people who attended really !!!!!!! http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...ow/9690577.cms |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by gregit
(Post 9580094)
Look at the TV Gregit, read the local newspapers. Mumbai, Pune, Hyderabad, Chennai even Panjim etc. etc. people coming out to give their support. Now back at work for most, but we will see what happens next weekend. Many, many are middleclass. All been fed in Delhi, really !!!!!!!
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...ow/9690577.cms[/QUOTE] Apologies I also have just found the report on the 'kitchen' which was set up on Sunday. But the 1 Lakh crowd was in one city on one afternoon. There have been demonstrations on each day in many cities as I said above. In fact the anti-corruption movement was started months ago. The Government has just delayed discussions, probably waiting for Sonia to come home. |
Re: Anna Hazare
Breakfast,lunch and dinner for the 1 lakh. people who attended really !!!!!!! . |
Re: Anna Hazare
The Times of India
Will Anna Hazare now call off his fast? Victory for Anna Hazare, Lok Sabha to discuss Jan Lokpal tomorrow timesofindia.indiatimes.com Anna Hazare's major demand is set to be met with the govt on Thursday deciding to have a discussion in the Lok Sabha tomorrow on the Jan Lokpal Bill. |
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Re: Anna Hazare
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Re: Anna Hazare
............wonder who will 'police' any anti corruption laws.........?
...the Indian Police? Dread - x |
Re: Anna Hazare
Didn`t want to start a new post but this seems to be on the topic of corruption.
I`ve been having internet probs since i got back. Reported it to local BSNL exchange and 2 days later got a call from a new engineer on contract to BSNL. He thought he had solved the problem but gave me his no. and said to ring if not OK. As per usual I always give people like this a back hander . Today he came back in the pouring rain and spent an hour trying to find the cause of problem-he was disgusted at the way my wiring had been done and has said he will return 1 day and totally re do it !! The whole point of this post is that he left sopping wet having fixed my broadband and would notaccept a single rupee! Could this be a sign of Anna Hazare`s fasts working on the youngsters of India! :thumbsup::fingerscrossed: |
Re: Anna Hazare
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/pass-the-...113-37-64.html
Anti-Corruption movement will not give up. Now retired police chief/activist Kiran Bedi accused of travelling in economy when hosts gave her money for business class!!! As she has said if the Jan Lokpal Bill could only be passed they could use it to punish her! |
Re: Anna Hazare
If you have nothing planned after Christmas and fancy helping out for the New Year you could register here :lol::thumbdown:
http://jailchalo.com Goa seems a bit unrepresented,surely this must be classed as some form of incitement even under Indian regulations |
Re: Anna Hazare
Originally Posted by gregit
(Post 9803707)
If you have nothing planned after Christmas and fancy helping out for the New Year you could register here :lol::thumbdown:
http://jailchalo.com Goa seems a bit unrepresented,surely this must be classed as some form of incitement even under Indian regulations AndyD 8-)# |
Re: Anna Hazare
Mr Hazere and his team have their work cut out me thinks :(
Goa police chief Mr Arya thinks the solution to 'Sunburn' organisers fraudulently selling tickets before permissions to hold the event had been agreed, is to give free tickets to him and his mates, and a donation to the police welfare fund. :ohmy::thumbup: Where do these people get the Face :p http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/11226905.cms |
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