UK Road Tax
Nov 23rd 2011, 12:26 pm
#1
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 12
UK Road Tax
Hey guys
Sorry if this has already been covered. I did try searching, but could only find something slightly similar relating to Italy.
We have 2 UK cars over here. Still insured with UK insurance, but with European cover.
The road tax is due on one of them next week; and I've been told I don't need to pay UK road tax and to SORN it. I can sort of understand why, as I'm paying TOLL road charges here; so its really like paying double.
Got a lot going on at the mo; little boy just starting school, moving house again next week, etc and still not speaking a lot of french. So I was thinking of SORNing the car in the UK, but advise the insurance company the car is going to be over here permanently for Dec, Jan and Feb. By which time insurance is due etc; and then getting it transferred over to French plate and getting French insurance etc.
Has anyone any experience / advice?
Thank u
Sorry if this has already been covered. I did try searching, but could only find something slightly similar relating to Italy.
We have 2 UK cars over here. Still insured with UK insurance, but with European cover.
The road tax is due on one of them next week; and I've been told I don't need to pay UK road tax and to SORN it. I can sort of understand why, as I'm paying TOLL road charges here; so its really like paying double.
Got a lot going on at the mo; little boy just starting school, moving house again next week, etc and still not speaking a lot of french. So I was thinking of SORNing the car in the UK, but advise the insurance company the car is going to be over here permanently for Dec, Jan and Feb. By which time insurance is due etc; and then getting it transferred over to French plate and getting French insurance etc.
Has anyone any experience / advice?
Thank u
Nov 23rd 2011, 1:51 pm
#2
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: 42
Posts: 445
Re: UK Road Tax
Flog them and get a LHD car.
Nov 23rd 2011, 2:10 pm
#3
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,551
Re: UK Road Tax
Given that insurance companies and DVLA are sharing databases now via the Motor Insurance Database and car could quite easily be tagged as Sorn'ed and the insurance company would be aware of this, If you now go through the small print of your insurance you will probably find a clause about being tax'ed and Mot'ed whilst on any highway for the policy to be valid.
Motor Insurance Database
The UK has one of the worst records in Western Europe for uninsured driving with an estimated one in twenty cars on the road being driven without the correct insurance.
The Motor Insurance Database (MID) was set up by the insurance industry to help combat this crime, reducing the number of uninsured motorists on the road, therefore reducing the cost to the industry of compensating victims of accidents involving uninsured motorists.
The MID also helps the UK comply with the 4th EU Motor Insurance Directive (now incorporated into the Codified Directive 2009/103/EC), which requires that insurance details of all vehicles in each member state can be easily identified by a national information centre. In the UK, this role is carried out by the MIB via its UK Information Centre.
The police actively use the database, making millions of enquiries each month in an effort to reduce the number of uninsured drivers on the road. The DVLA make over one million enquiries each month in support of Electronic Vehicle Licensing - enabling customers to tax their vehicles online.
The UK has one of the worst records in Western Europe for uninsured driving with an estimated one in twenty cars on the road being driven without the correct insurance.
The Motor Insurance Database (MID) was set up by the insurance industry to help combat this crime, reducing the number of uninsured motorists on the road, therefore reducing the cost to the industry of compensating victims of accidents involving uninsured motorists.
The MID also helps the UK comply with the 4th EU Motor Insurance Directive (now incorporated into the Codified Directive 2009/103/EC), which requires that insurance details of all vehicles in each member state can be easily identified by a national information centre. In the UK, this role is carried out by the MIB via its UK Information Centre.
The police actively use the database, making millions of enquiries each month in an effort to reduce the number of uninsured drivers on the road. The DVLA make over one million enquiries each month in support of Electronic Vehicle Licensing - enabling customers to tax their vehicles online.
Hey guys
Sorry if this has already been covered. I did try searching, but could only find something slightly similar relating to Italy.
We have 2 UK cars over here. Still insured with UK insurance, but with European cover.
The road tax is due on one of them next week; and I've been told I don't need to pay UK road tax and to SORN it. I can sort of understand why, as I'm paying TOLL road charges here; so its really like paying double.
Got a lot going on at the mo; little boy just starting school, moving house again next week, etc and still not speaking a lot of french. So I was thinking of SORNing the car in the UK, but advise the insurance company the car is going to be over here permanently for Dec, Jan and Feb. By which time insurance is due etc; and then getting it transferred over to French plate and getting French insurance etc.
Has anyone any experience / advice?
Thank u
Sorry if this has already been covered. I did try searching, but could only find something slightly similar relating to Italy.
We have 2 UK cars over here. Still insured with UK insurance, but with European cover.
The road tax is due on one of them next week; and I've been told I don't need to pay UK road tax and to SORN it. I can sort of understand why, as I'm paying TOLL road charges here; so its really like paying double.
Got a lot going on at the mo; little boy just starting school, moving house again next week, etc and still not speaking a lot of french. So I was thinking of SORNing the car in the UK, but advise the insurance company the car is going to be over here permanently for Dec, Jan and Feb. By which time insurance is due etc; and then getting it transferred over to French plate and getting French insurance etc.
Has anyone any experience / advice?
Thank u
Last edited by Ka Ora!; Nov 23rd 2011 at 2:22 pm.
Nov 23rd 2011, 2:38 pm
#4
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: UK Road Tax
Hey guys
Sorry if this has already been covered. I did try searching, but could only find something slightly similar relating to Italy.
We have 2 UK cars over here. Still insured with UK insurance, but with European cover.
The road tax is due on one of them next week; and I've been told I don't need to pay UK road tax and to SORN it. I can sort of understand why, as I'm paying TOLL road charges here; so its really like paying double.
Got a lot going on at the mo; little boy just starting school, moving house again next week, etc and still not speaking a lot of french. So I was thinking of SORNing the car in the UK, but advise the insurance company the car is going to be over here permanently for Dec, Jan and Feb. By which time insurance is due etc; and then getting it transferred over to French plate and getting French insurance etc.
Has anyone any experience / advice?
Thank u
Sorry if this has already been covered. I did try searching, but could only find something slightly similar relating to Italy.
We have 2 UK cars over here. Still insured with UK insurance, but with European cover.
The road tax is due on one of them next week; and I've been told I don't need to pay UK road tax and to SORN it. I can sort of understand why, as I'm paying TOLL road charges here; so its really like paying double.
Got a lot going on at the mo; little boy just starting school, moving house again next week, etc and still not speaking a lot of french. So I was thinking of SORNing the car in the UK, but advise the insurance company the car is going to be over here permanently for Dec, Jan and Feb. By which time insurance is due etc; and then getting it transferred over to French plate and getting French insurance etc.
Has anyone any experience / advice?
Thank u
You cant SORN a car and drive it on the roads
Yes I guess you are paying double, because you are driving UK registered cars in France whilst (I assume) living in France. Unfortunately it's the price you pay until you matriculate the vehicles.
Nov 23rd 2011, 5:09 pm
#5
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Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Le Givre 85
Posts: 1,343
Re: UK Road Tax
AppleGirl, there are posts that may help already on this site. Mitzyboy is right you cannot SORN a car in the UK and then take it on the road. As Peabrain says you can buy LHD, but the price disparity with equivement UK vehicles is jaw-dropping, even considering the costs involved in re-registering a RHD car. Lights will need altering (some UK vehicles have this built in but not many), but you may be able to tweak headlamp bulbs without the cost of buying new headlights and having them fitted (if you are not up to it). You will need as Cerificate of Conformity (car manufacturers do make a charge) to register the car with French plates; this is via the Prefecture and there is a charge (scaled on size, eg Ford Ka to Toyota Land Cruiser). You will also need a French MoT - Controle Technique, so it may cost around €250-€300 overall with licence plates at €25/pair. If you get to the point where you fancy tweaking lights, mail me.
Nov 24th 2011, 7:46 pm
#6
Account Closed
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 15
Re: UK Road Tax
AppleGirl, there are posts that may help already on this site. Mitzyboy is right you cannot SORN a car in the UK and then take it on the road. As Peabrain says you can buy LHD, but the price disparity with equivement UK vehicles is jaw-dropping, even considering the costs involved in re-registering a RHD car. Lights will need altering (some UK vehicles have this built in but not many), but you may be able to tweak headlamp bulbs without the cost of buying new headlights and having them fitted (if you are not up to it). You will need as Cerificate of Conformity (car manufacturers do make a charge) to register the car with French plates; this is via the Prefecture and there is a charge (scaled on size, eg Ford Ka to Toyota Land Cruiser). You will also need a French MoT - Controle Technique, so it may cost around €250-€300 overall with licence plates at €25/pair. If you get to the point where you fancy tweaking lights, mail me.
I drive a UK vehicle here on French plates - because I prefer a RHD car and because it's about 20% cheaper to buy than a French counterpart - my decision, so don't be put off by those who insist you only drive French - but please if you decide to have a UK vehicle then respect the laws here and get it legal as soon as you can. The process is simple, albeit a little expensive.
Nov 24th 2011, 8:09 pm
#7
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: UK Road Tax
I am a UK lawyer living here in France - technically you do not need a UK tax disc, it has nothing to do with your insurance and does not invalidate it. However, if you are a permanent French resident then that will most certainly invalidate your UK insurance, no matter the length of time you have lived here. If you have a domicile in the UK and spend more than 6months there then you are fine - tax or no tax. You only commit an offence when you return to the UK without tax. If you live for more than six months of the year here in France then you are deemed a French resident, your car must be French registered and must comply with French law. End of story, there are no exceptions and no way out of your individual responsibility. If you were to, God forbid, have a serious accident in France with UK insurance and you were a French resident, then I am confident in saying you will go to prison. The authorities only need check your France Telecom bills to see that you live here by the regularity of phone useage - easy as that - or by checking channel crossing bookings on the central databases, the police/gendarmerie are as effiecient and as up todate as the UK Police agencies I can assure you.
I drive a UK vehicle here on French plates - because I prefer a RHD car and because it's about 20% cheaper to buy than a French counterpart - my decision, so don't be put off by those who insist you only drive French - but please if you decide to have a UK vehicle then respect the laws here and get it legal as soon as you can. The process is simple, albeit a little expensive.
I drive a UK vehicle here on French plates - because I prefer a RHD car and because it's about 20% cheaper to buy than a French counterpart - my decision, so don't be put off by those who insist you only drive French - but please if you decide to have a UK vehicle then respect the laws here and get it legal as soon as you can. The process is simple, albeit a little expensive.
According to all that we have seen and heard from the Spanish (and I assume France doesnt differ as it's an EU agreement thing) and Uk authorities in the past, for a UK plated car to be driven abroad it has to be legal in the country of registration. Are you saying that not having road tax is OK, even though that makes it illegal in its country of registration?
Nov 24th 2011, 8:35 pm
#8
Account Closed
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 15
Re: UK Road Tax
According to all that we have seen and heard from the Spanish (and I assume France doesnt differ as it's an EU agreement thing) and Uk authorities in the past, for a UK plated car to be driven abroad it has to be legal in the country of registration. Are you saying that not having road tax is OK, even though that makes it illegal in its country of registration?
UK vehicle tax has nothing to do with the EU legality of a vehicle, it applies soley to the UK authorities and the method by which they tax your vehicle's use in the UK. The EU insist that all member states comply with a common code with regard to insurance and vehicle roadworthiness. A gendarme will not pay the slightest interest in whether your car has a valid UK tax disc or not - why would he, has nothing to do with the Road traffic laws as applied in France - he is only concerned with insurance, registration and road worthiness. If you are a tourist then he checks your Insurance, MOT and V5 document - end of story. If you read the terms and conditions of your tax disc it clearly states it is a condition of useage on all UK road systems - nothing else. This seems to be a common sticking point with expats - it only becomes a problem if you try to re-enter the UK without having renewed that little disc.
For instance, there may be a time when you are going through the process of registering your UK vehicle in France or Spain and your tax disc expires (this process can take 3 - 4 weeks) - so what, you have just made the decision to keep your car in France as you want to live here permanently - you break no laws at all.
Nov 24th 2011, 9:22 pm
#9
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: UK Road Tax
Hello,
UK vehicle tax has nothing to do with the EU legality of a vehicle, it applies soley to the UK authorities and the method by which they tax your vehicle's use in the UK. The EU insist that all member states comply with a common code with regard to insurance and vehicle roadworthiness. A gendarme will not pay the slightest interest in whether your car has a valid UK tax disc or not - why would he, has nothing to do with the Road traffic laws as applied in France - he is only concerned with insurance, registration and road worthiness. If you are a tourist then he checks your Insurance, MOT and V5 document - end of story. If you read the terms and conditions of your tax disc it clearly states it is a condition of useage on all UK road systems - nothing else. This seems to be a common sticking point with expats - it only becomes a problem if you try to re-enter the UK without having renewed that little disc.
For instance, there may be a time when you are going through the process of registering your UK vehicle in France or Spain and your tax disc expires (this process can take 3 - 4 weeks) - so what, you have just made the decision to keep your car in France as you want to live here permanently - you break no laws at all.
UK vehicle tax has nothing to do with the EU legality of a vehicle, it applies soley to the UK authorities and the method by which they tax your vehicle's use in the UK. The EU insist that all member states comply with a common code with regard to insurance and vehicle roadworthiness. A gendarme will not pay the slightest interest in whether your car has a valid UK tax disc or not - why would he, has nothing to do with the Road traffic laws as applied in France - he is only concerned with insurance, registration and road worthiness. If you are a tourist then he checks your Insurance, MOT and V5 document - end of story. If you read the terms and conditions of your tax disc it clearly states it is a condition of useage on all UK road systems - nothing else. This seems to be a common sticking point with expats - it only becomes a problem if you try to re-enter the UK without having renewed that little disc.
For instance, there may be a time when you are going through the process of registering your UK vehicle in France or Spain and your tax disc expires (this process can take 3 - 4 weeks) - so what, you have just made the decision to keep your car in France as you want to live here permanently - you break no laws at all.
Its only a sticking point because of all the authorities and experts saying different things really
Nov 25th 2011, 7:49 am
#10
Account Closed
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 15
Re: UK Road Tax
I think the term LEGAL is what has caused a problem in this instance - the way to look at it is 'you don't need a tax disc to insure your car, but you do need an MOT' if your tax disc runs out you are still insured, if your MOT runs out you are not insured. Good Luck.
Nov 25th 2011, 8:17 am
#11
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,551
Re: UK Road Tax
So I gather Mitzyboy, there are too many people offering little snippets of advice based on something they heard and then misinterpreted - there really needs to be a definative up todate set of guidlines available to expats in respect of this, and many other subjects that cause so much concern here.
I think the term LEGAL is what has caused a problem in this instance - the way to look at it is 'you don't need a tax disc to insure your car, but you do need an MOT' if your tax disc runs out you are still insured, if your MOT runs out you are not insured. Good Luck.
I think the term LEGAL is what has caused a problem in this instance - the way to look at it is 'you don't need a tax disc to insure your car, but you do need an MOT' if your tax disc runs out you are still insured, if your MOT runs out you are not insured. Good Luck.
Given the new "British" insurance laws can insurance company legally place a clause within their contract that says the car has to be completely legal within it's country of homologation for the insurance to be valid?
Nov 25th 2011, 11:41 am
#12
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: UK Road Tax
So I gather Mitzyboy, there are too many people offering little snippets of advice based on something they heard and then misinterpreted - there really needs to be a definative up todate set of guidlines available to expats in respect of this, and many other subjects that cause so much concern here.
I think the term LEGAL is what has caused a problem in this instance - the way to look at it is 'you don't need a tax disc to insure your car, but you do need an MOT' if your tax disc runs out you are still insured, if your MOT runs out you are not insured. Good Luck.
I think the term LEGAL is what has caused a problem in this instance - the way to look at it is 'you don't need a tax disc to insure your car, but you do need an MOT' if your tax disc runs out you are still insured, if your MOT runs out you are not insured. Good Luck.
Nov 25th 2011, 9:59 pm
#13
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: SE Dordogne France
Posts: 982
Re: UK Road Tax
I'm afraid that is incorrect.
If it were so then every driver caught without an MOT in UK would neccessarily and automatically also be charged with driving with no insurance which of course they are not. It is a minor non endorseable offence dealt with by way of fixed penalty fine.
By EU law, and regardless of peripheral issues such as residency and how long a car has been out of the country or in France, your insurance company cannot summarily withdraw your insurance although they may reduce their liability to 3rd party and even then seek to claim back any losses from you.
Section 25 here refers:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...11:0031:EN:PDF
On the topic of SORN, you cannot SORN a vehicle which has been removed form the UK.
From the DVLA website:
'You can tax or SORN online or by telephone, but please note that SORN can’t be made while the vehicle is abroad'
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...cle/DG_4022582
Leaving aside other considerations if you have not informed DVLA of a car's export then if it's tax runs out whilst in France then you must retax it, failure to do so will result in an automatic £80 fine being dispatched to your address according to your V5C. If you have a current UK insurance policy and an MOT then you can do it online.
If it were so then every driver caught without an MOT in UK would neccessarily and automatically also be charged with driving with no insurance which of course they are not. It is a minor non endorseable offence dealt with by way of fixed penalty fine.
By EU law, and regardless of peripheral issues such as residency and how long a car has been out of the country or in France, your insurance company cannot summarily withdraw your insurance although they may reduce their liability to 3rd party and even then seek to claim back any losses from you.
Section 25 here refers:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...11:0031:EN:PDF
On the topic of SORN, you cannot SORN a vehicle which has been removed form the UK.
From the DVLA website:
'You can tax or SORN online or by telephone, but please note that SORN can’t be made while the vehicle is abroad'
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...cle/DG_4022582
Leaving aside other considerations if you have not informed DVLA of a car's export then if it's tax runs out whilst in France then you must retax it, failure to do so will result in an automatic £80 fine being dispatched to your address according to your V5C. If you have a current UK insurance policy and an MOT then you can do it online.
Nov 26th 2011, 9:01 am
#14
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Scotland & Touraine [37]
Posts: 3,019
Re: UK Road Tax
[QUOTE=Im_and_Er;9754318]I'm afraid that is incorrect.
If it were so then every driver caught without an MOT in UK would neccessarily and automatically also be charged with driving with no insurance which of course they are not. It is a minor non endorseable offence dealt with by way of fixed penalty fine.
By EU law, and regardless of peripheral issues such as residency and how long a car has been out of the country or in France, your insurance company cannot summarily withdraw your insurance although they may reduce their liability to 3rd party and even then seek to claim back any losses from you.
Section 25 here refers:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...11:0031:EN:PDF
On the topic of SORN, you cannot SORN a vehicle which has been removed form the UK.
From the DVLA website:
'You can tax or SORN online or by telephone, but please note that SORN can’t be made while the vehicle is abroad'
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...cle/DG_4022582
Leaving aside other considerations if you have not informed DVLA of a car's export then if it's tax runs out whilst in France then you must retax it, failure to do so will result in an automatic £80 fine being dispatched to your address according to your V5C. If you have a current UK insurance policy and an MOT then you can do it online.[/QUOTE]
Correct but you need the reference number on the V11 renewal notice which will be sent to the registered address for the vehicle.
The tax disc takes up to 5 days to arrive and therefore I assume that you have 5 days grace to display the correct disc in the UK.
The DLV records should be up-to-date within this period and shouldn't trigger the police car computers. (if you re-enter the UK)
Non-renewal or non-SORN results in an automatic penalty as stated above.
I have a french car IMHO is much simpler - but not for everyone.
If it were so then every driver caught without an MOT in UK would neccessarily and automatically also be charged with driving with no insurance which of course they are not. It is a minor non endorseable offence dealt with by way of fixed penalty fine.
By EU law, and regardless of peripheral issues such as residency and how long a car has been out of the country or in France, your insurance company cannot summarily withdraw your insurance although they may reduce their liability to 3rd party and even then seek to claim back any losses from you.
Section 25 here refers:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...11:0031:EN:PDF
On the topic of SORN, you cannot SORN a vehicle which has been removed form the UK.
From the DVLA website:
'You can tax or SORN online or by telephone, but please note that SORN can’t be made while the vehicle is abroad'
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...cle/DG_4022582
Leaving aside other considerations if you have not informed DVLA of a car's export then if it's tax runs out whilst in France then you must retax it, failure to do so will result in an automatic £80 fine being dispatched to your address according to your V5C. If you have a current UK insurance policy and an MOT then you can do it online.[/QUOTE]
Correct but you need the reference number on the V11 renewal notice which will be sent to the registered address for the vehicle.
The tax disc takes up to 5 days to arrive and therefore I assume that you have 5 days grace to display the correct disc in the UK.
The DLV records should be up-to-date within this period and shouldn't trigger the police car computers. (if you re-enter the UK)
Non-renewal or non-SORN results in an automatic penalty as stated above.
I have a french car IMHO is much simpler - but not for everyone.
