helen52

can anyone tell me if this is true we are moving to France my husband and I and I have been told that if we are under 60 and have no income we are not liable for the tax habitation,
also is this true if we have less than £100.000 or euros we are not liable for French tax, and someone said that if we leave some money in the UK we would not be liable for tax is this true,
we do not have a great amount of money and intend to live off what we made on our house in the UK, have bought a very small modest house in France. not to renovate,
just a modest life can anyone help please

White Trash

"can anyone tell me if this is true we are moving to France my husband and I and I have been told that if we are under 60 and have no income we are not liable for the tax habitation, Wrong. Possibly after reaching retirement age but not before.
also is this true if we have less than £100.000 or euros we are not liable for French tax, and someone said that if we leave some money in the UK we would not be liable for tax is this true, Wrong again. If you become resident in France you will be taxed on all income from any source worldwide. That includes interest on savings, dividends, etc. and you will also pay cotisations based on these incomes even if they amount to a figure below the level for income tax.
we do not have a great amount of money and intend to live off what we made on our house in the UK, have bought a very small modest house in France. not to renovate,
just a modest life can anyone help please" I am afraid you will find that your savings will disappear faster than you think once you start paying for your top up medical insurance and all the other things that need to be paid on a regular basis.

helen52

how can I find out what the tax habitation will be, as the people we are buying from are over 65, and do no pay it. and also van you tell me anything about top up medical insurance, approx cost and the scale of tax on your savings please

White Trash

Tax habitation is based on the number of principle rooms and the amenities available and the rate and valuation is different in different communes. I am unable to be more specific than this but I suggest you start with the notaire that handled the house purchase. There may be something in the files that will point you in the right direction.
The medical insurance cost can vary widely due to age and the amount of cover. Mine costs approx. €46 a month for one person aged 65 with fairly good cover but not all dental or opticians charges covered. Try to get an appointment to speak with a broker or someone at your bank who will have full info to hand and be able to explain the options.
I can not advixe on the rate of income tax you might have to pay because I have never paid income tax, being under the taxable limit since arriving here 12 years ago. I did have to pay the cotisations however on the small amount of savings I had at first. More info should be forthcoming as I am sure there are quite a few people on this or other forums who have had recent up to date experience of the system. I suggest you take professional advice or at least try to depend on actual links to French government websites to get accurate info rather than hearsay or opinion.
A few links for further info- http://www.frenchhealthissues.eu/default.htm
http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/dgi/home
http://www.service-public.fr/

EuroTrash

As said - taxe d'hab can vary from a few hundred euros to several thousand, depending on the commune. Ask the vendors what the tax is currently - even though they don't pay it, they will probably know what it would be if they did. Also bear in mind that it can go up alarmingly year on year.

Any reductions that you are entitled to are calculated and applied automatically each year, based on your annual tax return which takes into account your total worldwide household income (pensions, interest on savings etc) offset by any credits d'impots etc. FWIW, I am well under 60 and I do get a reduction in taxe d'hab because of low earnings - but one thing to beware of is assuming that because one person gets or doesn't get something, you will get the same. When it comes to taxes etc, different personal circumstances make all the difference to the outcome.

You may also be liable to pay 'social charges' which are tax by another name (this might be what Whitetrash means by 'cotisations'? but normally cotisations are what you pay on earned income.)

When you say 'top up' medical insurance - make sure you have medical cover sorted for the long term. Once you reach retirement age you will probably be covered on an S1 from the UK. In the short term you may be eligible for cover under an S1 for up to 2 years, depending on your recent NI contributions in the UK. However, once the S1 expires (or if you don't get one), if you are living in France as 'inactifs' you may have to purchase full comprehensive medical cover until you have lived legally in France for 5 years and can apply to join the French state healthcare system. Living in France with no medical cover - i.e. cover from the UK expired and not eligible to join the French system - is not legal.

cjm

In addition to the good advice advice above, there are many posts on the site you can search for on 'habitation' and 'mutuelle'.

Your sellers will have a document at least notating the habitation, even though they are exempt at the end of the document.

If you can, you may wish to speak with the Maire; most don't bite.

EuroTrash

Re social security & healthcare if you move to France, this link might be useful:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/health/settling-abroad/health-insurance/index_en.htm social security / healthcare, this link might be useful:

Garonne

Hi Helen

I would seriously advise you to do an awful lot more research before you consider making France your permanent home. You are clearly being given duff advice by someone, so don't listen to them any longer for starters would be my advice!

As previously stated, Taxe d'Habitation is means tested regardless of age. The previous owners can give you the base amount before any deductions but if money is going to be tight, what will you do if your savings run out? There is no assistance whatsoever in France for anyone who isn't paying or hasn't paid French contributions.

If you have an S1 you'll need mutuelle complémentaire (top-up). This isn't compulsory (although when your S1 runs out private health insurance is obligatory) but if you are on limited resources you cannot take the risk of not having it. You'll be looking at anything from about 70 euros a month depending on your ages to give you the sort of cover low income families would need.

How much have you budgeted for to live on? Have you included all the hidden extras?

Have you thought about re-registering vehicles?

Do some serious searching on this and other ex-pat forums and you'll find a wealth of information out there. Some of the information pages on ex-pat forums are extremely informative.

dmu

Quite agree! You've come to the right place for advice!
If you'll be receiving UK Pensions in the near future, you'll be OK with your savings, but don't count on them to live forever more in France, unless you accept to live on the "poverty" level, without treats, car, meals out, holidays away from home, even visitors to be fed, etc.... And even then you'd have the anxiety of wondering whether it'll eke out.
And, although they aren't compulsory, a Mutuelle is IMHO indispensable as one gets older. You may be relatively healthy now, but the 30% top-up reimbursements are appreciable when you need regular medication, physiotherapy, etc..., not to mention an unexpected diagnosis.
The Taxe d'Habitation is nothing compared to all the other expenses that you must take into account...

cyrian

Hi
There are two elements to the "council tax" - Tax D'Habitation and Tax Fonciere.
Owner-occupiers pay both.
If you are resident in France then you would be required to complete an annual tax return and pay any tax due in a lump sum. you would have to budget for this annual payment.
You would be required to declare any income/property earned in the UK and any tax already paid in the UK.
Because of the dual tax treaty, you are not required to pay tax twice on such income.
Are you commited to the house purchase?
If not, you need to check out the various costs like Tax D and Tax F and cost of medical cover.
If your income (non-earned) is above a certain level then you are also required to pay National Insurance on your income unlike in the UK where NI is only paid on earned income.

Good luck

EuroTrash

My priority, if you haven't done it already, would be to check with DWP and ensure that you are not looking at a significant period when you will not be covered by either the UK or the French state health system and needing private health insurance, because this could be a massive expense. Top-up is one thing, but a full comprehensive health policy for two people for three years could be prohibitive. So this will depend partly on how far off state retirement age you are.

Other things to bear in mind are that if your income and savings are all in sterling, you are at the mercy of the exchange rate, so whether France seems to you a cheap or expensive place to live day by day, will depend entirely on how euros/sterling are doing.

And looking at the big picture, as they say - France is in a bad way economically with very high national debt, unemployment etc, so the government is perpertually hiking taxes and inventing new ones, and no French taxpayer gets a free ride. If you come to live here you will be expected to contribute along with everyone else. So when you do your planning, leave yourself room to manoeuvre round whatever Hollande thinks up next.

Absolutely not trying to put you off, but as dmu said, taxe d'habitation and income tax are far from being the only issues.

helen52

can anyone clarify please, firstly I am grateful for all your good advice most helpful, but to fill you in on more info,
house we are buying very small, 1 bedroom, I lounge, small dining room. fosse, solar panels for water, oil filled rads, think tax hab approx 300 euro a year going to find out tomorrow, older couple own it now have lived there for 9 years so can tell us lots about their bills,approx 145 euro a month. tax hab includes tv licence yes ? they dont pay it, as retired anyone know good insurer for health ins, what is difference between sante and complimentere. freesat box for tv, leaving telephones just need internet to be changed from them to us, approx 37 euros a month I think.
need to find out about house ins.we have 2 years approx from DWP on my husbands earnings, he is 59 me 53 need to last till he is 66,he has 3 small pensions and hope to get some investment in 4 years and some private pension for me, and inheritance. we hope to also live on approx £60.000 till then, anyone know a recommended health insurance place,got a quote for 15 euro a month, does that sound wrong a place recommended by someone exclusive health care firm is called, we are not sick at the moment,
anyone know what tax or how to work out what we might pay, on £60.000 is that high or not we will not have any other income besides the small pension approx £350 a year. we estimate approx 8000 or so euro a year including, food ,petrol and incidentals does anyone think this sounds reasonable.
oh house has no oven, just BBQ,hob, halogen pot, and microwave/cooker
woman very economically minded.
thanks in advance

Garonne

Helen, please rethink this whole plan. See my comments below (I’m not very good at replying by ‘quoting’ para by para!!
anyone know what tax or how to work out what we might pay, on £60.000 is that high or not we will not have any other income besides the small pension approx £350 a year. we estimate approx 8000 or so euro a year including, food ,petrol and incidentals does anyone think this sounds reasonable.
8,000 euros a year is 666 euros a month. That’s practically half the French minimum wage and anyone earning below that as the only wage earner of a couple (or more) gets income support just to give you an idea of how little it is and how far it will go. In my opinion, it simply isn’t going to be doable no matter how economically minded you are and if you get in a mess what will you do then if the money runs out? You will get NOTHING from the state. A friend of mine gets 500 euros a month income support and can’t survive on that. Most days she doesn’t eat. She lives on her own. I get 942 euros (housing benefit and income support) out of which I have to pay 467 euros a month rent. There’s me and adult son (not working). That leaves me with 475 euros a month and I rely on the free food from the charities in the winter and ‘emergency financial aids’ from my social worker when needs must. My on-off boyfriend who I don’t live with buys me most of the stuff I don’t get for free such as the animal food and the odd bottle of wine and meat. What I’ll do in the summer if I still can’t find another job I dread to think. I am more than economically minded but the sums simply don’t work. But I have the state to help me if I need it because I’ve been here for a long time and have paid my contributions. You are talking about living on only 191 euros more than I have. It’s a non-starter.
house we are buying very small, 1 bedroom, I lounge, small dining room. fosse, solar panels for water, oil filled rads, think tax hab approx 300 euro a year going to find out tomorrow, older couple own it now have lived there for 9 years so can tell us lots about their bills,approx 145 euro a month. tax hab includes tv licence yes ? they dont pay it, as retired anyone know good insurer for health ins, what is difference between sante and complimentere. freesat box for tv, leaving telephones just need internet to be changed from them to us, approx 37 euros a month I think.
Bills 145 euros a month?? They must hardly use any electricity then. By oil-filled rads do you mean the electric ones or oil central heating? Both are very expensive. I have oil central heating but can’t afford the oil and the house is really badly insulated (if at all) so it’s a total waste of money. I wear thermals and loads of layers and only heat the room I’m in for most of the day which is office/diner/kitchen with an oil-filled rad. In the evening I light the paraffin heater in the lounge. We heat the bathroom for a few mins with an electric fan just before having a shower. We don’t heat our bedrooms (apart from my son’s with a small electric rad on min during the day if he’s in there). Our electricity costs 98 euros a month. Water 20 euros a month. Even if the Taxe d’Hab is 300 euros that’s another 25 euros a month. TV licence isn’t included but it’s on the same bill. It’s currently 126 euros but going up next year. In addition you’ve got fonciere tax. Internet 37 euros a month. So that comes to 180 euros at least (without TV licence and fonciere).
need to find out about house ins.we have 2 years approx from DWP on my husbands earnings, he is 59 me 53 need to last till he is 66,he has 3 small pensions and hope to get some investment in 4 years and some private pension for me, and inheritance. we hope to also live on approx £60.000 till then, anyone know a recommended health insurance place,got a quote for 15 euro a month, does that sound wrong a place recommended by someone exclusive health care firm is called, we are not sick at the moment,
On top of the basic bills even if you budget for petrol 15 euros a month, food 200 euros a month, car insurance 50 euros a month, house insurance 25 euros a month, and top-up insurance 70 euros a month – if the same person who told you all the other duff info told you to get top-up for 15 euros a month I’ll say no more … that can only be the very, very basic cover and if you’re on a budget like yours you need to be covered for everything (in my opinion), especially unexpected hospitalisation. So that brings your monthly expenditure up to at least 540 euros a month – with no unforeseen circumstances such as problems with your car and clothes, replacing washing machine, vacuum cleaner, etc, etc, etc … To say I’m frugal is the understatement but even I wouldn’t consider this on 666 euros a month. It’s miserable not having any money but at least I can get help if I need it. You won’t be able to. Have you prepared a spreadsheet with all outgoings on it? I always say whatever your absolute minimum outgoings are you can always add a couple of hundred euros on for those unexpected bills …

If others can say different, I stand to be corrected, but my friend lives on an absolute shoestring of 500 euros a month and so do I with 475 after my rent. It's no fun. Yes, it's warm in the winter but it's cold in the winter and the novelty of living in a different country soon wears off, especially if you haven't got any money.

cyrian

I agree. Please don't go ahead with the house purchase until you check all your figures.
It sounds to me that you are heading for a railcrash.
Are you trying to fulfill a dream? - It may turn into your biggest nightmare.
You are covered by healthcare in the UK; you can claim social benefits in the UK; you can speak the language in the UK; you have friends and family support in the UK.
Think again

wetwang

Have you considered renting for 12 months to get a better feel of how it all works?
It could be the best investment you will ever make.