SuzieB

Hi all

Latest on the neighbour problems. They were convoked by the mediators, then we received a call for a meeting with all. The meeting was at the Mairie with the mayor, his assistant, 2 mediators, us + them.
The discussion was supposed to be just for the van but the neighbours went off at a tangent. The mayor was asked if he could provide a parking place for the van. He refused, saying he couldn't set a precedent (understandable). The suggestion was for the neighbour to erect a tall chimney, so smoke passes above the roof. He has been asked before to do this and has never done! We were asked to accept and we declined to decide there and then.
The mayor etc weren't happy with us! It was decided to meet with just the mediators the following day for a decision.
The woman accused me of telling her kids not to use the garden, when I asked them to avoid playing ball in my border. The boy is now using my plants as targets! I have been told I'm intolerant!
Next day the other owner came too. He objected to the chimney idea as us. He spoke for his tenant, already not happy with the smoke. He also objects to any business on site and questioned the insurance aspect.
We stated we are not happy with the suggestion, we are a copropriete and he should respect that. We didn't buy the flat with a business operating.
The neighbour has already asked for a quote and is saying it's expensive. They haven't got the money, we know that from the bank account. The mediators asked if we, us and other owner would maybe contribute!!! You can imagine the reply!
No solution found, another meeting due. I will be in UK so hope they're told to get real and move the van. The only prob is apparently there is no law to stop them. I have emailed a Strasbourg MEP to query, waiting for an answer.
I'm feeling frustrated with the French, have been running around now for months trying to sort out all these problems.
My lovely French neighbour asked me if I'm going home for a 'cure'. He said he understands my need to go.
We're going to advertise the flat for sale asap! hope we find a buyer.

Peabrain

Jeez, you'd think with such a concentration of brain power and political clout they'd have come up with something a bit more convincing.
You poor thing. Commiserations. Don't let the bastards grind you down. Continue to be "indignée".
PB

Lory1

Oh my. I feel so sorry for you in this situation. I live in Italy and can understand how things can take forever to be resolved. I hope you have a positive outcome.

SuzieB

Still have a smoking van! After I returned from UK in early July we went to see the mediators. They told us that the neighbours can't afford a chimney, a fact we already knew. We waited for the mayor to contact us and nothing.
We now are infested with mice due to them and have 2 dead rabbits in cages full of excrement. We contacted the equiv of RSPCA at the beginning of August to try and save the rabbits, sadly too late. Now they don't want to know! DASS also don't want to know. As usual everyone is passing the buck!!
I am losing faith in this country, no one wants to take responsibility. UK may have it's faults but at least Environmental Health would have acted by now.
Maybe something positive in all this, we may have a buyer. It's a couple who live nearby and they know our wonderful neighbours below. The woman is the hairdresser of the neighbour below so must know some of the problems. The best is he's a retired policeman, it would be such justice if he moves here. He could keep them in check as the previous owner/policeman did. Crossing everything that they buy!!!
Have had offers from friends if we need to move quickly so that's not a problem.
to be continued.....

dennerlymum

got everything crossed for you!

SuzieB

Thanks, need all the support I can get!

smithyandlisa

Really hoping all goes well for you. Please continue to keep us posted. Good Luck!

Karlo

Hello SuzieB and other forum members
I do excuse myself for not going through the 'introduce yourself ' channel.
I came across this forum today, on reading some of the threads I felt I had to make my own contribution to this one. SuzieB you are not alone with the problem of Neighbour problems.
I will start by posting a short summary to introduce you all to our problem, a lot has happened since the start of trouble, many meetings, discussions, etc , all to no avail.
If anyone is at all interested I will gladly tell you the rest of our unsolved problem to date, and what I think of the French system, my opinion of the way they go about handling things.......or not

We are going through the most hellish problem with new neighbours that have moved into terrain in our small hamlet .
The first thing they started to do , whilst we were away for a weekend in England was to cut the trees down along our boundary apparently using our terrain to so. This left our terrain totally exposed and gave anyone access onto our land, as the barbed wire fence was also removed we found it necessary to put up a new boundary fence.
The marie was contacted as we needed confirmation and advice as to where we put our new fence. I might add at this point that this whole problem is the cause of a geomet who did not do his job right , at the time he came to measure out the terrain, the boundaries were so thick with trees and hedges that he thought it a good idea to put a wooden peg in to indicate that the actual boundary was 1 metre away from it .
As you can well imagine this has caused the marie a headache along with us, as this neighbour who has been told by the marie not to touch the trees as they belong to us but has the right to clean out the epienes.
Since all this has kicked off we have an illegal wooden cabin on the terrain , a caravan, an electric cable he has taken across the road that everyone has to drive across , living there with no fosse septic and an outside toilet carefully placed away from his cabin but bordering our terrain giving us a free view of everyone who uses it.
Going back to the problem of the trees , les voisen l' enfer arrived at our gate the other day to inform us of the imminent arrival of a new goemet to bang in the new bournes where they should be, and can he clear away a little more to aid the geomet. I told my Wife not to believe him , it's just a lie so he can carry on with his tree clearing.
It turns out that he was telling the truth about the geomet , but I was right about the tree felling, felling as much as he can before he arrives,. Yesterday they set about felling the biggest tree in the hamlet , half of it crashing down onto our land with them craftily nipping over to retrieve the wood, thinking we were not watching them. Our french neighbour watched the whole thing from her house in tears , saying there were a least 2 bird nests that came down with the tree.
So at least we will know soon where are actual boundary is and possibly take the land back that he assumed was his , which is what this whole sorry affair has been about, we can put up a new fence at our expense, not him, and hopefully on the 8th July when there 3 months is up they will be asked to move the caravan off.

wetwang

Terrible situation

SuzieB

Hi Karlo

Nice to know I'm not alone! I hope at the end of the 3 months the caravan is moved, we still have the van after 9 months. Will cross everything for you at the same time as us.
My partner called the mayor on Friday re the dead rabbits and mice infestation. As always the mayor said he wasn't responsible for the mice, even though we were advised he is. He seemed to be shocked by the dead rabbits exclaiming 'C'est pas possible'. I'm not sure why he's surprised, although I think he has never really taken our problems seriously. Anyway he's due to call my partner today and advise.
My partner told him the facts and said to the mayor that he has been made aware so if there are any repercussions ...... My partner has a meeting with the hygiene dept on Thursday, but didn't tell the mayor this.
Almost 4 years we have been fighting problems, very tired + disillusioned!
i would love to know more about your problems Karlo, we may all be able to help with advice.

Suzie

Karlo

HI Suzie
Thank you for your reply, it nice to share your problems with others.
If I can explain to you, the thread I first posted was one that was written around beginning of June this year to a friend describing our problem.
The July 8th date has since passed , which was when their time was up for moving the caravan off ........... guess what! ...... It's still there, of course it is !.
The authorities just seem to be not interested in doing anything about this problem, luckily we are not alone with the problem, our other french neighbours are suffering as well, intimidation, provocation , noise, saying ' Bonjour' to them, only to have them reply by 'spitting' at them.
Like you Suzie we are tired and disillusioned.

Karlo

SuzieB

I no longer say 'Bonjour' to my neighbours, haven't done for a long time. The mediators asked us to but I could not bring myself to. Think the best policy is to no longer enter into discussion with them or even acknowledge them.
Have you looked at the advice I have been given? We decided not to go to court but it may be an idea for you. It costs and could be a long process but may be worth it?

dennerlymum

Good god!! What horrible people! and I complain about the noise of our neighbours! Thank goodness I am not in your situation and I am so sorry for you Karlo! At least it would seem you have your neighbours on your side..

Etoile de Berger

Sorry to butt in but to Karlo in particular...

in around 2003/4 the Ministry of Agriculture sent up numorous helicopters all over France and used satellite surveillance to measure every square centimetre of land in the country. The geometres and cement bournes and posts etc were redundant. In fact they were found to be quite a way out in many cases.

Every registered farm had to go to their prefecture, look at a satellite image of their land and make sure that it squared up EXACTLY with the land next door...my own fields were divided by a strip of wood and undergrowth and I had to sign that the designated line was my boundary, as the other owner did too.

That is now on record as the legal boundary.

Your mayor should have access to that file if the survey had been done. If your land is not in the middle of some town (which may have been done as well..I don't know) and it sounds as if it includes open parcels of land, there is, somewhere, a legal description of your boundaries.

If your mayor can't be bothered, go to the MSA (Mutualite Sociale Agricole) which has offfices in every large town or city, and ask them about it. Ask at your prefecture who did the attestations.

If you ever have trouble with such affairs and the mayor does not help, ask who your regional political representative is, the next step up (as you would do in the UK). He should be able to help you.

Good luck.

Karlo

HI again Suzie
Yes we do exactly the same with our neighbours , its damn hard passing their terrain, especially on foot as you can sense you are being watched.
When this new Geomet came out to remeasure their terrain and put the bornes in the right place. We decided to make a fresh start with these people as the matter was to finally resolved.
We walked up our garden to arrive at the requested time, the whole family was there, or should I say families! as when they need to do something the cavalry are phoned, and they all turn up in their cars and vans.
We politely said bonjour, ... nothing, bonjour again ..... nothing, only a bonjour from the geomet , who was informed by the previous geomet about the 'histoire'. The previous geomet refused any more dealing with them after being called a 'Gangster' by them over the phone.
Luckily we were informed before hand that this new geomet was totally impartial and would not stand for any of their crap, by that I mean where they had thought the original boundary was, where they had cleared away our trees and put up this pathetic attempt of a fence.
Well, when the geomet was finally able to commence his work, after constantly being followed around and being intimidated by them, they were in for a BIG, BIG, shock.
" Who put this fence up here ......its is wrong, this is your neighbours land, your boundary should start 50 cms from this point back here"
He also told them later that he would not be surprised, and would expect us to take out a 'Proces' against them, this as you well know costs time and money, but the main stumbling block is that the Maire has to help you in this.

He is the main problem in all of this sorry affair, his lack of energy , does not want to be bothered by it, meantime our neighbours just carry on as they want.
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