Sean809

Hi
we are in the throws of purchasing a property in Poitou-Charentes. I have just received the Compromis de Vente (contract) and was wondering if I need a UK based solicitor to look over it or am I just being too cautious. From what I have seen it looks fairly straight forward and doesn’t seem to have anything ambiguous in it. Your advice would be appreciated.
Sean

cyrian

Hi Sean,
Welcome to the forum.
Is a UK based solicitor going to understand the french sales process?
It is the legal obligation of the notaire to read the entire Acte de Vente with both parties and to make sure that they understand each page.
The notaire is a neutral agent normally acting on behalf of both parties.
If you wish, you can use your own notaire which doesn't cost you any more because the two notaires split the fee between them.
We chose to use our own notaire (son of a friend) because we wanted advice regarding marriage contract to avoid early involvement of inheritance tax.
The law has changed since then and there are no inheritance tax issues between spouses or PACSd partners but the tax remains for any other beneficiaries like children.
You may also want to create a french Will - even if it is a holiday home.
HTH

Sean809

graham.miln

Regardless of the simplicity of the proposed Compromis de Vente, talk to a notaire and have them review the document. Notaire costs are minimal and they will be able to advise you of your rights and responsibilities assumed by the document. Before signing, you can add clauses and extras to better protect yourselves. After signing, you are bound by the compromis – so take your time now. As an aside, a UK solicitor can not help you.

Our seller trusted their estate agent and did not talk to a notaire. That caused problems.

We used a separate notaire to the seller, and our notaire was not local to the region of the property. We were in a better situation when the problems arose because the notaire's involvement.

Good luck!

Sean809

That’s great advice I didn’t know you could employ separate notiere. Is this something you have to source yourself or do you seek this via your agent?
Thanks

graham.miln

We walked into a notaire's office and asked for an appointment. You can search for a notaire online and then either phone or visit. They are unlikely to reply to e-mails until after your first meeting.

Your relationship with the notaire is separate to the estate agent. You may find notaires have opinions about estate agents.

We had a list of clauses added to our Compromis de Vente to protect us in case of problems. These are important and likely specific to each property. An as example, does the owner have the bornage document showing the legal and agreed property borders? If not, make the document a condition of the sale.

You have plenty of time to sort this out. Summer holidays are upon us and everything in France will slow down or stop until September. This can be a blessing or a curse!

dmu

Also, make sure the Notaire informs you of any Ancient Rights of Way across your future property (for hunters, access to neighbours' properties, ....) and find out from the Mairie whether there are building plans in the Commune which might affect your future enjoyment.

Sean809

graham.miln

dmu's advice is great. I believe notaires are required to inform you of certain information about a property but that may come too late. You will likely be questioned about your marriage, origin of the funds used to purchase, and other seemingly odd questions. Try not to be too offended, these questions all affect the form of the final sale document.

I am sure others have raised the issue, but be sure to understand your health care situation before the move. I found myself in a French hospital sooner than I would have liked after moving. Other threads on this site cover health care well.

The Love Allier link below covers the tale of our buying land and building a house. It was a good adventure.

We have been in France for some years now. Enough time to realise how little we know.

EuroTrash

I didn't use an estate agent (private sale), hence I dealt directly with the notaire right from the start. The seller and I used the same notaire. It worked fine.
When I attended to sign the compomis the notaire spent a long time explaining and clarifying various points, with both me and the seller present. I learned a lot during that meeting, the notaire answered all my questions plus raised and answered some issues it hadn't even occurred to me to ask and a couple of clauses were added on the spot, By the time I signed I felt confident that everything had been covered, and at the next meeting to sign the acte, there was very little left to clarify.
To me, the idea of bypassing the initial meeting with the notaire and simply signing a compromis drawn up by an estate agent, with no discussion and no notaire on hand to clarify, would be absolutely unthinkable. I know people do this but I can only see disadvantages and dangers in it, and no advantage at all. You have to use a notaire; the notaire is a disinterested advisor with expert knowledge that you as buyer are paying for; surely you want to take advantage of as much advice as you can, why on earth would you choose to cut him out of the process until the very last minute?

dmu

+1
@Sean: As said, you must take this Compromis to a Notaire and go through it carefully before signing - even if the Estate Agent asked for the "seemingly odd" personal details, the Notaire will need proof of matrimonial status, direct heirs, funds, etc.... to draft the final Deed for signature.
If necessary, take an interpreter along so that nothing's lost in translation. French legalese is obscure even to your average Frenchman, let alone a foreigner..... And be aware that Estate Agents are only interested in getting their Commission, don't accept a non-professional linguist that they recommend, find an unbiassed one recommended by the Notaire if he/she doesn't speak English!
Good luck, and trust the Notaire!

Sean809

Tweedpipe

@Sean809
You say, "Am I being too cautious?", and "From what I have seen it looks fairly straight forward and doesn’t seem to have anything ambiguous in it."
In my experience one must be over cautious, it will save you buyers remorse which from what I've read many Brits experience in not doing adequate homework prior to a move here. There are many potential pitfalls after a move, many not associated with property purchase, often realised after it's too late.
As wisely advised here the notaire is there to give you all the pertinent info you require, so use him for such, bombarding with questions etc, even if they appear stupid.
Don't rely on the agent to reveal everything about the property or the surroundings. Their underlining goal is to make a sale, to pay their employess and property expenses etc. If there was a plan to build a high-rise appartment, a mosque or a funeral parlour overlooking your property, I wouldn't expect them to tell you. But a notaire if he didn't know would find out for you, but these are the sort of questions, and more that you must ask.
Good luck, everything should go well, if you ensure you've taken the necessary cautionary measures.

Chatter Static

Not to mention it's pays to either be fluent or have someone with you whom is fluent at both signing appointments because the meetings tend to drag on and it's easy to miss important stuff.

Annetje

Our notaire, when we used him the first time for a sale, asked us upfront if we needed a interpreter ...