rickster000

Thanks Rebecca. I wasn't thinking of the obvious.

If people are already changing citizenship, then I guess they must be pretty convinced about what's going to happen after the referendum.

I notice this on the BBC news website:

How long will it take for Britain to leave the EU?
This was a question asked by many people. The minimum period after a vote to leave would be two years. During that time Britain would continue to abide by EU treaties and laws, but not take part in any decision-making, as it negotiated a withdrawal agreement and the terms of its relationship with the now 27 nation bloc. In practice it may take longer than two years, depending on how the negotiations go.

Is this not good news for anyone currently going down or planning to go down the Singh route or the Irish citizenship route to get into UK?

rebeccajo

It's true that any transition will take time.

I think it's best, when trying to make personal decisions that affect something so precious as family, to exercise caution. The decisions are harder in times such as these.

No one can tell you the best path for you and your family. That's something you have to decide, for yourself. I would urge you to read a lot. Good resources. I've always, always been an advocate of professional advice. Go get some of that if you must. From someone with references and a track record of good work.

Good luck to you and your family. I truly wish that for you. I hope you can cut through the noise, get the facts, and make a wise choice. If you are patient, I predict success.

rickster000

Sound advice. Thanks Rebecca. Much appreciated.

rickster000

Couple more questions about EEA Family Permit.

If the family (Irish husband, non-EU wife) have a British child, does this affect anything?

If FP is granted and after 3 months the wife is not working but is simply a housewife, does this affect her right to stay?

formula

It doesn't matter how long something has been in place, an agreement is not legislation. The Irish government are well aware of that. See their quote below (in bold).

I really can't see the UK being the ones to close the border, unless RoI were forced to join the open borders of Schgenen (if that survives the migrant crisis). The UK are well aware of how much the Irish need this to be able to come to the UK for work and to get all the benefits that immediate PR in the UK gives them, especially as the US are now making it difficult for the Irish to get citizenship there.

The (bad) luck of the Irish – POLITICO

However, the EU can tell RoI what to do and could make them put up borders. RoI take more out of the EU than they pay in and and he who pays the piper calls the tune, especially if a big player like the UK isn't there anymore to fight their corner. The RoI government are also well aware of the problems a small county like theirs would face in the EU without the UK being there to protect them.



Not wanting to read something because it is "fear mongering" may be the worry of a reactive, but proavtives like to prepare. You can't rely on something you want to be given, to always being there.

Fortnuately for the Irish, their government are being proactive in looking at how bad it will be for RoI if the UK leaves the EU and what they can do about to stop the UK leaving the EU.
This is just one of the many things posted on the internet about how RoI are being proactive. It also mentions in there (several times) about the problem for Ireland of losing the CTA as it is just an agreement and is not legislation. Such as this on page 31.

"That the moment has come to urgently review the CTA (in anticipation) of changing relationships between the UK/EU and Ireland/UK and in particular the lack of a bilateral legal basis for the CTA"

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/...ns_Updated.pdf

formula

In fact the UK threatening to withdraw from the EU may turn out to work in RoIs and Denmarks (the two countries who joined the EU at the same time as the UK) favour, as they will almost cetainly get what the UK has been offered to stay. Which means that these two countries who have been the biggest protesters at non-EU citizens now being allowed to use free movement, will get what they have wanted.

The UK threatening to withdraw from the EU and the things they have been offered to stay, will also work in the favour of all the weathly EEA countries (most popular countries for free movement) when they get all these changes given to them too.

It also seems to be working in favour of Germany as they would now get their, 'benefits only paid at the same rate as they would get in their own country' following on from there how to stop free momement for better benefits study that they carried out a few years ago: about that same time as their "whoever lies, flies" benefits policy.

Which is all a bit strange anyway because the UK is already reducing the benefits for children to below that of Germany, France and Sweden under the welfare reform laws that have been going through the UK parliament. Poland (situated next to Germany) were the ones who were anti benefit reductions for their citizens in other EEA countries but now suddenly, to keep the UK paying billions into the EU every year, they have agreed to not only these benefit changes for their citizens moving to the UK, but also for the ones already in the UK. Which then leaves it open for Germany to get what they have wanted all along and their neighbour Poland won't be able to stop it.

formula

Under present rules, as long as you (the EEA national) is being a qualified person, then your wife is allowed to reside in the UK as you are exercising treaty rights. She then gets what you, the EEA citizen (not the Irish citizen) is allowed to have. You being Irish and using EU law for your wife, does not get the same things for your non-EU wife that you (an Irish citizen) can have.

Qualified person is-
*Worker
Job Seeker (now limited to 6 months in the UK)
Student
Self Sufficient.
These latter two requires the whole family to have CSIs (Comprehensive Sickness Insurance). I assume the Irish citizen won't need this??? You would need to check that for the Irish citizen. British citizens who reside in the UK can use the NHS for free.

You can mix and match these qualifed presons to ensure that you are exercising treaty rights at all times. This will be very important when your wife tries to get a PR certificate in 5 years time as she will need to prove that her EEA citizen has been exercising their treaty rights continuously for 5 years. It is up to the EEA citizen to ensure they keep up to date with any changes the UK makes for qualified persons.

*At the moment the UK has now defined an EEA 'worker qualified person' as someone who earns enough each week to pay their National Insurance each week. Something like £156pw.
Self employed workers must show the same and also be registered with HMRC and show "gainful employment" to be exercsing treaty rights of free movement.
This minimum amount to earn to be classed as a worker, seems to based on what is presently counted as a working week for a couple with children on benefits. This may change when the welfare reforms kick in and that working week for benefit claimants will change to 35 hours per week (at the national minimum wage). Keep an eye on that to ensure you keep exercising treaty rights for your non-EU citizen/s.

Under present rules, those who arrive on Singh are treated as worker qualified persons.

rebeccajo

Sigh.

Please put up entire portions of things that you quote, formula. Doing less than that is, indeed, fear mongering.

"That the moment has come to urgently review the CTA (in anticipation) of
changing relationships between the UK/EU and Ireland/UK and in
particular to address the lack of a bilateral legal basis for the CTA. The
Committee further recommend that the Irish Government examine other
options, such as ‘a mini-Schengen’ arrangement between Ireland and the
UK, as a possible solution for protection of the CTA."

Also, please do not refer to the time clock running out on certain categories of US visas as "trouble for the Irish to immigrate to the US". The article is about illegal immigration to the US, not legal. That is contextual as well.

formula

As I said in my previous post, there were many references to the CTA in that Irish parlaimnet document and they all had the same stance. It seems you didn't read it all.

I'm not quire sure what you don't understand? It confirms what I said that is there is there is no legislation for the CTA (as it was just an agreement). It then talks about trying to arrange something with the UK - that's the "examine other options" bit.

It is like that all the way through that report. Have a read of it.

And, as I already said, they might not get any choice if Brexit happens as the EU could tell them they can't have it; or the EU might force Schengen on RoI and then the UK would them to close the CTA to protect UK borders.

It was good that the government are being proactive in the event of Brexit with reports like that, but lets hope for the best for Ireland and that they get everything they have said they want: the UK staying in the EU and that they get to stop non-EU citizens using free movement to stay in their country.



You didn't read all that article either, did you. If you had you would have seen that it wasn't just about illegal Irish in the US.

rickster000

Thanks for all this info guys. Really helpful.

If someone is eligible for an EEA FP but already has a visitor visa to enter the country, is it still necessary to apply for a FP?

SanDiegogirl

If you want them to be able to remain in the UK, yes.

You cannot apply for the FP as a visitor in the UK - you need to apply for it from the home country or wherever you legally reside.

rickster000

Thanks Sandiego.

I believe with a UK visitor visa you can only stay for 6 months of the year. I assume if you visit for 6 months, go home, then apply for FP, you wouldn't be exempt for 6 months or anything like that, would you?

SanDiegogirl

Correct

rickster000

Thanks.

Do you know if this would be the same with a spouse visa rather than a FP?

BritInParis

Regarding the Common Travel Area it's quite a stretch to think that Brexit will lead to the end of an arrangement that has been in place since 1923 and that Irish citizens will suddenly lose their unique status in the UK which existed long before any European project. The UK and the RoI are not members of the Schengen Area and so 'open borders' is already a non-issue. It's also worth pointing out that neither the Isle of Man nor the Channel Islands are members of the EU or the EEA but operate quite happily as part of the CTA.