British Citizenship/Passport by Double Decent
Jan 27th 2018, 10:43 am
#91
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2018
Location: south africa
Posts: 6
Re: British Citizenship/Passport by Double Decent
There are quite a few anomalies regarding Rhodesia although from what I know the dates regarding your birth and your mother's birth do not add up to a claim. The standard claim through a parent born overseas to a parent in Crown service only works if the grandparent in question was recruited for that service in the UK. If your grandfather emigrated to Rhodesia of his own accord before joining the BSAP then his service would not be eligible.
In addition, we found a luggage ticket for the boat he took from London to Southern Rhodesia via Durban, with a notice on the back to say that he must report for his yellow fever shot on the 28 November 1946. I'm not really sure what kind of documentation in needed to show he was recruited while in the UK?
But, I'm assuming this indicates that he was in fact recruited while living in the UK.
I have also received conformation from the BSAP in Rhodesia that he served with them from 29th December 1946 to 30th November 1970, attaining the rank of Chief Inspector. Which would indicate that he was in the BSAP in Rhodesia, when my mother was born in 1956.
Last edited by Shelb21; Jan 27th 2018 at 10:51 am.
Jan 27th 2018, 11:00 am
#92
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 18,195
Re: British Citizenship/Passport by Double Decent
So what i have managed to find out is my grandfather was recruited to the BSAP Rhodesia while living in the UK. We have a telegram addressed to his residential address in the UK, letting him know he has been accepted and must report to Rhodesia before the end of 1950. As well as some letters addressed to his residential address in the UK, telling him that there is an officer he must report to for recurring purposes.
In addition, we found a luggage ticket for the boat he took from London to Southern Rhodesia via Durban, with a notice on the back to say that he must report for his yellow fever shot on the 28 November 1946. I'm not really sure what kind of documentation in needed to show he was recruited while in the UK?
But, I'm assuming this indicates that he was in fact recruited while living in the UK.
I have also received conformation from the BSAP in Rhodesia that he served with them from 29th December 1946 to 30th November 1970, attaining the rank of Chief Inspector. Which would indicate that he was in the BSAP in Rhodesia, when my mother was born in 1956.
In addition, we found a luggage ticket for the boat he took from London to Southern Rhodesia via Durban, with a notice on the back to say that he must report for his yellow fever shot on the 28 November 1946. I'm not really sure what kind of documentation in needed to show he was recruited while in the UK?
But, I'm assuming this indicates that he was in fact recruited while living in the UK.
I have also received conformation from the BSAP in Rhodesia that he served with them from 29th December 1946 to 30th November 1970, attaining the rank of Chief Inspector. Which would indicate that he was in the BSAP in Rhodesia, when my mother was born in 1956.
Jan 27th 2018, 11:37 am
#94
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 18,195
Re: British Citizenship/Passport by Double Decent
I can see that your grandfather served as an officer in the RNVR during World War II but I couldn't find evidence of his recruitment in the relevant gazette as it is not available online.
Does your mother's birth certificate indicate that your grandfather was serving in the BSAP at the time of her birth?
Does your mother's birth certificate indicate that your grandfather was serving in the BSAP at the time of her birth?
Jan 27th 2018, 11:52 am
#95
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2018
Location: south africa
Posts: 6
Re: British Citizenship/Passport by Double Decent
I can see that your grandfather served as an officer in the RNVR during World War II but I couldn't find evidence of his recruitment in the relevant gazette as it is not available online.
Does your mother's birth certificate indicate that your grandfather was serving in the BSAP at the time of her birth?
Does your mother's birth certificate indicate that your grandfather was serving in the BSAP at the time of her birth?
However, I did find the ship passenger manifesto with his name, his address in the UK, and that his occupation was BSAP.
Jan 27th 2018, 12:34 pm
#96
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 18,195
Re: British Citizenship/Passport by Double Decent
The Rhodesian birth certificates do not indicate your occupation, so there is no mention of the BSAP. However, I am sure I can get a letter from the BPSA Rhodesia to indicate his service from 1946 - 1970.
However, I did find the ship passenger manifesto with his name, his address in the UK, and that his occupation was BSAP.
However, I did find the ship passenger manifesto with his name, his address in the UK, and that his occupation was BSAP.
Whether your application for a passport is successful will likely hinge on whether BSAP service is considered 'Crown service under the government of the United Kingdom'. My understanding is that it does which makes sense as Southern Rhodesia was a British colony at the time and never formally formed a separate dominion like South Africa.
If you do decide to make an application please let us know how you get on.
Jan 27th 2018, 12:41 pm
#97
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2018
Location: south africa
Posts: 6
Re: British Citizenship/Passport by Double Decent
I think if you can obtain a letter from the relevant authority confirming his recruitment in the UK and years of service with the BSAP then together with the telegram you have and the letters addressed to him in the UK as part of his recruitment process then you should have a fairly strong claim to recruitment in the UK.
Whether your application for a passport is successful will likely hinge on whether BSAP service is considered 'Crown service under the government of the United Kingdom'. My understanding is that it does which makes sense as Southern Rhodesia was a British colony at the time and never formally formed a separate dominion like South Africa.
If you do decide to make an application please let us know how you get on.
Whether your application for a passport is successful will likely hinge on whether BSAP service is considered 'Crown service under the government of the United Kingdom'. My understanding is that it does which makes sense as Southern Rhodesia was a British colony at the time and never formally formed a separate dominion like South Africa.
If you do decide to make an application please let us know how you get on.
Jan 27th 2018, 5:12 pm
#98
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 526
Re: British Citizenship/Passport by Double Decent
Good luck. I found a PDF document online from whatpassport with defininitions of Crown service and it confirms BIP's understanding; BSAP Rhodesia is listed as Crown Service.
https://www.whatpassport.com/solution/pdf/2853
https://www.whatpassport.com/solution/pdf/2853
Mar 1st 2018, 4:24 pm
#99
Just Joined
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 11
Re: British Citizenship/Passport by Double Decent
So we can see he was commissioned into The King's (Shropshire Light Infantry) as a subaltern in November 1906. He was then transferred to the 38th Dogras in October 1908 and promoted to Lieutenant in February 1909 and promoted again temporarily to Captain in September 1915 before his new rank was made substantive in November 1915. The substantive rank was later backdated to September 1915 but with no extra pay! He was later promoted to Major in November 1921 and held this rank until promoted to Lieutenant Colonel in November 1932 which the rank he held until he retired in December 1940.
We now therefore have a paper trail showing your grandfather's recruitment into the British Army in the United Kingdom before being transferred to the British Indian Army where he was serving at the time of your mother's birth in 1931. That your mother's birth certificate states he was a Major in the 17th Dogra Regiment, rather than the 38th Dogras, makes sense as the 38th Dogras became the 2nd Battalion, 17th Dogra Regiment in 1922 according to Wikipedia.
You will need to obtain your grandfather's military records from the Ministry of Defence for the period covering your mother's birth. Those combined with your mother's birth certificate should be sufficient.
I've also found the index reference for your grandfather's birth certificate which you will need to order from the General Register Office unless you already possess a copy.
As you were born to a British mother before 1983 you'll still need to lodge an application to register as a British citizen with the Home Office although the application itself is free and you need only pay £80 towards the cost of your citizenship ceremony. As the UK remains an EU country for the time being as a German citizen you do not need to obtain permission from the German government before becoming a British citizen in order to retain your German citizenship (Beibehaltung der deutschen Staatsangehörigkeit). If you are based in Germany then you'll have your citizenship ceremony at your local British consulate: either Berlin, München or Düsseldorf.
As a postscript it is interesting to note your great-grandfather was Admiral Andrew Kennedy Bickford CMG, Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Station 1900-1903, who was himself born in India. There's a tower at a major Canadian naval base named after him should you ever want to visit. Further interesting family history concerning your great uncles can be found here.
We now therefore have a paper trail showing your grandfather's recruitment into the British Army in the United Kingdom before being transferred to the British Indian Army where he was serving at the time of your mother's birth in 1931. That your mother's birth certificate states he was a Major in the 17th Dogra Regiment, rather than the 38th Dogras, makes sense as the 38th Dogras became the 2nd Battalion, 17th Dogra Regiment in 1922 according to Wikipedia.
You will need to obtain your grandfather's military records from the Ministry of Defence for the period covering your mother's birth. Those combined with your mother's birth certificate should be sufficient.
I've also found the index reference for your grandfather's birth certificate which you will need to order from the General Register Office unless you already possess a copy.
As you were born to a British mother before 1983 you'll still need to lodge an application to register as a British citizen with the Home Office although the application itself is free and you need only pay £80 towards the cost of your citizenship ceremony. As the UK remains an EU country for the time being as a German citizen you do not need to obtain permission from the German government before becoming a British citizen in order to retain your German citizenship (Beibehaltung der deutschen Staatsangehörigkeit). If you are based in Germany then you'll have your citizenship ceremony at your local British consulate: either Berlin, München or Düsseldorf.
As a postscript it is interesting to note your great-grandfather was Admiral Andrew Kennedy Bickford CMG, Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Station 1900-1903, who was himself born in India. There's a tower at a major Canadian naval base named after him should you ever want to visit. Further interesting family history concerning your great uncles can be found here.
Dear Brit in Paris,
Sorry it has been a long time since we discussed this topic. But due to various reasons, I have not been able to complete the "request to reconsider a decision refused" by the Home Office, when they refused me British Citizenship on the grounds of my mother apparently only being a CUKC.
In our previous correspondences we discussed, though my mother was born in India, she should still be a full British Citizen with full rights to pass her citizenship on to her children, due to her father having been born in the UK & having served in India in crown service. This should have exempted my mother from automatically beeing seen as a CUKC from the British Nationality Act of 1948.
Are you still of this opinion?
Needless to say, since I have been fully resident in the UK since the 80s, I feel the urgency to complete this 2nd application as soon as possible. So here is all the information I have gathered:
- I have my grandfather's birth certificate - he was born in the UK
- I have his death certificate - died in the UK
- I have army records of him at the Royal Military College 1906; Listed in the King's Shropshire Lt Infantry 1906; listed as a lieutenant in the British Army in 1909; being a Lieutenant in the Indian Infantry, 38th Dogras 1911; promotion to be Captain in the 38th Dogras in 1915; a listing for still being in the 38th Dogras in 1916; and lastly a fantastic document (here is the link:
(124) - Army lists > 1938-1941 - Half-yearly Army lists 1923 - Feb 1950 (From 1947, annual, despite the name) > 1940 > Second half - British Military lists - National Library of Scotland
Maurice Herbert Bickford is the 3rd listed name in the right-hand column)
It gives his full service breakdown, including his date of birth, up until 21st Nov. 1932.- my mother was born on the 3rd Oct. 1931, so this list also covers the time of her birth.
- my mother's birth certificate
- my birth certificate
- my mother's British passport
- my German passport
Do you think this is sufficient information/proof?
As I am just a little nervous of another unfair rejection of my right to citizenship, I was wondering how you thought I should draft my letter for reconsideration?
Here is the link to the form & it's criteria:
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ORM_NR__v4.pdf
rather worryingly this form states towards the bottom:
"We will not reconsider on grounds of
long residence, where the statutory requirements are not met
convenience of holding a British passport for business or other reasons, but the requirements were not met.
cultural reasons or reasons connected with ancestry
past service in the armed forces"
But since I originally applied using the UKM form, surely my family & ancestry must count, as must the fact that my grandfather was in Crown Service & my mother is therefore not merely a CUKC.
example for my application for reconsideration:
Dear Sir/Madam,
I would hereby like to request a reconsideration of decisions to refuse citizenship.
Using the UKM form I applied for British citizenship in 2015, but was refused on the grounds that my British mother, due to having been born in India in 1931, became a CUKC after the British Nationality Act of 1948.
Having made further researched into my mother's circumstances, I have however been assured that I have a right to citizenship on the grounds of my British, British born grandfather having been in Crown Service in India at the time of my mother's birth in 1931.
I have been advised that my mother is therfore not a CUKC but a full British citizen.
I here enclose documents showing my grandfather's place of birth & death, and his service in the British army.
On these grounds I would be most grateful if you would reconsider my application for British citizenship.
Your Sincerely....
*******
Back to you Brit in Paris - do you think this statement is sufficient, including the documents that I will be submitting?
Have I forgotten anything or do I need to make any mention of doudle decent?
Is double decent a valid application using the UKM form?
I know that I made the original UKM form application back in 2015, but surely they should still have all the application details on file - I have a case referece number from them, which I shall quote.
Also does the Home Secretary's reference to section 4C of the British Nationality Act (1981) tell us anything we have missed so far?
So sorry, to drag this on, but this is crunch time, and I do need to get this right.
Many, many thanks again for your amazing advice!!
Best wishes Pop
Mar 7th 2018, 5:20 pm
#100
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 18,195
Re: British Citizenship/Passport by Double Decent
Dear Brit in Paris,
Sorry it has been a long time since we discussed this topic. But due to various reasons, I have not been able to complete the "request to reconsider a decision refused" by the Home Office, when they refused me British Citizenship on the grounds of my mother apparently only being a CUKC.
In our previous correspondences we discussed, though my mother was born in India, she should still be a full British Citizen with full rights to pass her citizenship on to her children, due to her father having been born in the UK & having served in India in crown service. This should have exempted my mother from automatically beeing seen as a CUKC from the British Nationality Act of 1948.
Are you still of this opinion?
Sorry it has been a long time since we discussed this topic. But due to various reasons, I have not been able to complete the "request to reconsider a decision refused" by the Home Office, when they refused me British Citizenship on the grounds of my mother apparently only being a CUKC.
In our previous correspondences we discussed, though my mother was born in India, she should still be a full British Citizen with full rights to pass her citizenship on to her children, due to her father having been born in the UK & having served in India in crown service. This should have exempted my mother from automatically beeing seen as a CUKC from the British Nationality Act of 1948.
Are you still of this opinion?
Needless to say, since I have been fully resident in the UK since the 80s, I feel the urgency to complete this 2nd application as soon as possible. So here is all the information I have gathered:
- I have my grandfather's birth certificate - he was born in the UK
- I have his death certificate - died in the UK
- I have army records of him at the Royal Military College 1906; Listed in the King's Shropshire Lt Infantry 1906; listed as a lieutenant in the British Army in 1909; being a Lieutenant in the Indian Infantry, 38th Dogras 1911; promotion to be Captain in the 38th Dogras in 1915; a listing for still being in the 38th Dogras in 1916; and lastly a fantastic document (here is the link:
(124) - Army lists > 1938-1941 - Half-yearly Army lists 1923 - Feb 1950 (From 1947, annual, despite the name) > 1940 > Second half - British Military lists - National Library of Scotland
Maurice Herbert Bickford is the 3rd listed name in the right-hand column)
It gives his full service breakdown, including his date of birth, up until 21st Nov. 1932.- my mother was born on the 3rd Oct. 1931, so this list also covers the time of her birth.
- my mother's birth certificate
- my birth certificate
- my mother's British passport
- my German passport
Do you think this is sufficient information/proof?
- I have my grandfather's birth certificate - he was born in the UK
- I have his death certificate - died in the UK
- I have army records of him at the Royal Military College 1906; Listed in the King's Shropshire Lt Infantry 1906; listed as a lieutenant in the British Army in 1909; being a Lieutenant in the Indian Infantry, 38th Dogras 1911; promotion to be Captain in the 38th Dogras in 1915; a listing for still being in the 38th Dogras in 1916; and lastly a fantastic document (here is the link:
(124) - Army lists > 1938-1941 - Half-yearly Army lists 1923 - Feb 1950 (From 1947, annual, despite the name) > 1940 > Second half - British Military lists - National Library of Scotland
Maurice Herbert Bickford is the 3rd listed name in the right-hand column)
It gives his full service breakdown, including his date of birth, up until 21st Nov. 1932.- my mother was born on the 3rd Oct. 1931, so this list also covers the time of her birth.
- my mother's birth certificate
- my birth certificate
- my mother's British passport
- my German passport
Do you think this is sufficient information/proof?
As I am just a little nervous of another unfair rejection of my right to citizenship, I was wondering how you thought I should draft my letter for reconsideration?
Here is the link to the form & it's criteria:
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ORM_NR__v4.pdf
rather worryingly this form states towards the bottom:
"We will not reconsider on grounds of
long residence, where the statutory requirements are not met
convenience of holding a British passport for business or other reasons, but the requirements were not met.
cultural reasons or reasons connected with ancestry
past service in the armed forces"
But since I originally applied using the UKM form, surely my family & ancestry must count, as must the fact that my grandfather was in Crown Service & my mother is therefore not merely a CUKC.
example for my application for reconsideration:
Dear Sir/Madam,
I would hereby like to request a reconsideration of decisions to refuse citizenship.
Using the UKM form I applied for British citizenship in 2015, but was refused on the grounds that my British mother, due to having been born in India in 1931, became a CUKC after the British Nationality Act of 1948.
Having made further researched into my mother's circumstances, I have however been assured that I have a right to citizenship on the grounds of my British, British born grandfather having been in Crown Service in India at the time of my mother's birth in 1931.
I have been advised that my mother is therfore not a CUKC but a full British citizen.
I here enclose documents showing my grandfather's place of birth & death, and his service in the British army.
On these grounds I would be most grateful if you would reconsider my application for British citizenship.
Your Sincerely....
*******
Back to you Brit in Paris - do you think this statement is sufficient, including the documents that I will be submitting?
Have I forgotten anything or do I need to make any mention of doudle decent?
Is double decent a valid application using the UKM form?
I know that I made the original UKM form application back in 2015, but surely they should still have all the application details on file - I have a case referece number from them, which I shall quote.
Also does the Home Secretary's reference to section 4C of the British Nationality Act (1981) tell us anything we have missed so far?
So sorry, to drag this on, but this is crunch time, and I do need to get this right.
Many, many thanks again for your amazing advice!!
Best wishes Pop
Here is the link to the form & it's criteria:
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ORM_NR__v4.pdf
rather worryingly this form states towards the bottom:
"We will not reconsider on grounds of
long residence, where the statutory requirements are not met
convenience of holding a British passport for business or other reasons, but the requirements were not met.
cultural reasons or reasons connected with ancestry
past service in the armed forces"
But since I originally applied using the UKM form, surely my family & ancestry must count, as must the fact that my grandfather was in Crown Service & my mother is therefore not merely a CUKC.
example for my application for reconsideration:
Dear Sir/Madam,
I would hereby like to request a reconsideration of decisions to refuse citizenship.
Using the UKM form I applied for British citizenship in 2015, but was refused on the grounds that my British mother, due to having been born in India in 1931, became a CUKC after the British Nationality Act of 1948.
Having made further researched into my mother's circumstances, I have however been assured that I have a right to citizenship on the grounds of my British, British born grandfather having been in Crown Service in India at the time of my mother's birth in 1931.
I have been advised that my mother is therfore not a CUKC but a full British citizen.
I here enclose documents showing my grandfather's place of birth & death, and his service in the British army.
On these grounds I would be most grateful if you would reconsider my application for British citizenship.
Your Sincerely....
*******
Back to you Brit in Paris - do you think this statement is sufficient, including the documents that I will be submitting?
Have I forgotten anything or do I need to make any mention of doudle decent?
Is double decent a valid application using the UKM form?
I know that I made the original UKM form application back in 2015, but surely they should still have all the application details on file - I have a case referece number from them, which I shall quote.
Also does the Home Secretary's reference to section 4C of the British Nationality Act (1981) tell us anything we have missed so far?
So sorry, to drag this on, but this is crunch time, and I do need to get this right.
Many, many thanks again for your amazing advice!!
Best wishes Pop
Regarding your letter CUKC doesn't mean British by descent. It means 'Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies' which was everyone who was born in the UK or one of its colonies. Previously everyone born in the British Empire was a British Subject but after WWII the various dominions (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, etc..) created their own citizenship laws. By 1981 the definition was narrowed again and 'British citizenship' as we know it today was created. For those born in the UK their status changed accordingly. My uncle, for instance, was born in 1947 in London. He was born a British subject but automatically became a Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies two years later and a British citizen in 1983. The change was automatic. What was crucial as far as you are concerned is whether your mother was considered to be a CUKC by descent or otherwise than by descent at the time of your birth. If she was the latter then your application should be successful as only her sex would have prevented her from passing on her citizenship which is what Section 4C changed retrospectively.
As such here's my revision of your letter:
Dear Sir/Madam,
Case Ref No: XXX
I would hereby like to request a reconsideration of your decision to refuse my application to register as a British citizen under Section 4C of the British Nationality Act 1981.
In 2015 I made an application to be registered as a British citizen using Form UKM which was refused on the grounds that my mother, who was born in India in 1931 to a British-born father, was a Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent only at the time of my birth in Germany in 1971.
Having subsequently conducted additional research into my family history I can now confirm that my maternal grandfather in Crown service under His Majesty's government in the United Kingdom at the time of my mother's birth, namely serving as a Major in the 17th Dogra Regiment of the British Indian Army, having been initially commissioned into The King's (Shropshire Light Infantry) from Sandhurst in November 1906.
Please find enclosed my grandfather's birth, death and marriage certificates as well as documents confirming his military service.
In light of this new evidence I am confident that my mother would have been able to pass on her citizenship to me at the time of my birth under the exemption provided by Section 5(1)(c) of the British Nationality Act 1948 and that I would have become a British citizen on 1 January 1983 with the commencement of the British Nationality 1981 had mothers been able to pass on their citizenship in the same manner as fathers at the time of my birth.
I would be most grateful if you would therefore reconsider my application for British citizenship. Please do not hesitate to contact me for further information should it be required. I look forward to receiving your response in due course.
Yours sincerely,
...
Case Ref No: XXX
I would hereby like to request a reconsideration of your decision to refuse my application to register as a British citizen under Section 4C of the British Nationality Act 1981.
In 2015 I made an application to be registered as a British citizen using Form UKM which was refused on the grounds that my mother, who was born in India in 1931 to a British-born father, was a Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent only at the time of my birth in Germany in 1971.
Having subsequently conducted additional research into my family history I can now confirm that my maternal grandfather in Crown service under His Majesty's government in the United Kingdom at the time of my mother's birth, namely serving as a Major in the 17th Dogra Regiment of the British Indian Army, having been initially commissioned into The King's (Shropshire Light Infantry) from Sandhurst in November 1906.
Please find enclosed my grandfather's birth, death and marriage certificates as well as documents confirming his military service.
In light of this new evidence I am confident that my mother would have been able to pass on her citizenship to me at the time of my birth under the exemption provided by Section 5(1)(c) of the British Nationality Act 1948 and that I would have become a British citizen on 1 January 1983 with the commencement of the British Nationality 1981 had mothers been able to pass on their citizenship in the same manner as fathers at the time of my birth.
I would be most grateful if you would therefore reconsider my application for British citizenship. Please do not hesitate to contact me for further information should it be required. I look forward to receiving your response in due course.
Yours sincerely,
...
Mar 8th 2018, 9:14 pm
#101
Just Joined
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 11
Re: British Citizenship/Passport by Double Decent
A huge thank you as ever, Brit in Paris!!
I have an appointment with the Nationality Checking Service on the 21st (they take copies of important documents that I don't want to put in the post), which is why I am panicking about getting all the right things together....
Do you feel certain that I won't have to redo & reissue things like my biometrics, referees & identity forms (with two friends vouching for me), proof of my studies, National insurance #, etc,etc, basically everything I had to show when I submitted the UKM form, or do you think all this will be on file, hence my case reference # - the NR form doesn't actually ask for anyhthing specifically other than proof to back up my claim....?
What do you think?
With regard to my mother being a CUKC by decent, or 'other than by decent', which is how they normally put it - the way I understand it is the 'decent' or 'other than by decent' is entirely determined by the fact of my grandfather having been in crown service, which regardless of the family's location, makes my mother automatically a 'British Citizen other than by decent'.
I am very grateful that you have also quoted those clauses in the letter!!
However what I cannot understand is why the Secretary of State didn't see that my mother was British 'other than by decent', since I quoted my grandfather's army rank, which also appears on my mother's birth certificate & I also had to give my grandfather's place of birth. So all those details should surely have shown what we are now proving - do you think the whole rejection simply hinged on the fact that I had not given proof of my grandfather's Crown Service?
Many thanks again!! Pop
I have an appointment with the Nationality Checking Service on the 21st (they take copies of important documents that I don't want to put in the post), which is why I am panicking about getting all the right things together....
Do you feel certain that I won't have to redo & reissue things like my biometrics, referees & identity forms (with two friends vouching for me), proof of my studies, National insurance #, etc,etc, basically everything I had to show when I submitted the UKM form, or do you think all this will be on file, hence my case reference # - the NR form doesn't actually ask for anyhthing specifically other than proof to back up my claim....?
What do you think?
With regard to my mother being a CUKC by decent, or 'other than by decent', which is how they normally put it - the way I understand it is the 'decent' or 'other than by decent' is entirely determined by the fact of my grandfather having been in crown service, which regardless of the family's location, makes my mother automatically a 'British Citizen other than by decent'.
I am very grateful that you have also quoted those clauses in the letter!!
However what I cannot understand is why the Secretary of State didn't see that my mother was British 'other than by decent', since I quoted my grandfather's army rank, which also appears on my mother's birth certificate & I also had to give my grandfather's place of birth. So all those details should surely have shown what we are now proving - do you think the whole rejection simply hinged on the fact that I had not given proof of my grandfather's Crown Service?
Many thanks again!! Pop
Mar 9th 2018, 8:28 am
#102
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 18,195
Re: British Citizenship/Passport by Double Decent
A huge thank you as ever, Brit in Paris!!
I have an appointment with the Nationality Checking Service on the 21st (they take copies of important documents that I don't want to put in the post), which is why I am panicking about getting all the right things together....
Do you feel certain that I won't have to redo & reissue things like my biometrics, referees & identity forms (with two friends vouching for me), proof of my studies, National insurance #, etc,etc, basically everything I had to show when I submitted the UKM form, or do you think all this will be on file, hence my case reference # - the NR form doesn't actually ask for anyhthing specifically other than proof to back up my claim....?
What do you think?
I have an appointment with the Nationality Checking Service on the 21st (they take copies of important documents that I don't want to put in the post), which is why I am panicking about getting all the right things together....
Do you feel certain that I won't have to redo & reissue things like my biometrics, referees & identity forms (with two friends vouching for me), proof of my studies, National insurance #, etc,etc, basically everything I had to show when I submitted the UKM form, or do you think all this will be on file, hence my case reference # - the NR form doesn't actually ask for anyhthing specifically other than proof to back up my claim....?
What do you think?
With regard to my mother being a CUKC by decent, or 'other than by decent', which is how they normally put it - the way I understand it is the 'decent' or 'other than by decent' is entirely determined by the fact of my grandfather having been in crown service, which regardless of the family's location, makes my mother automatically a 'British Citizen other than by decent'.
I am very grateful that you have also quoted those clauses in the letter!!
However what I cannot understand is why the Secretary of State didn't see that my mother was British 'other than by decent', since I quoted my grandfather's army rank, which also appears on my mother's birth certificate & I also had to give my grandfather's place of birth. So all those details should surely have shown what we are now proving - do you think the whole rejection simply hinged on the fact that I had not given proof of my grandfather's Crown Service?
Many thanks again!! Pop
I am very grateful that you have also quoted those clauses in the letter!!
However what I cannot understand is why the Secretary of State didn't see that my mother was British 'other than by decent', since I quoted my grandfather's army rank, which also appears on my mother's birth certificate & I also had to give my grandfather's place of birth. So all those details should surely have shown what we are now proving - do you think the whole rejection simply hinged on the fact that I had not given proof of my grandfather's Crown Service?
Many thanks again!! Pop
Mar 9th 2018, 8:46 am
#103
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 526
Re: British Citizenship/Passport by Double Decent
just a note for when you make your application and cover letter
is 'descent' as opposed to ascent...not 'decent' as in a good chap.. The original thread was started with the wrong spelling.
is 'descent' as opposed to ascent...not 'decent' as in a good chap.. The original thread was started with the wrong spelling.
Mar 9th 2018, 8:28 pm
#104
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: bute
Posts: 9,740
Re: British Citizenship/Passport by Double Decent
Angie
It is very decent of you to point out this confusion that appears all over the place !
May your post cause you to ascend to the heights !
It is very decent of you to point out this confusion that appears all over the place !
May your post cause you to ascend to the heights !
How decent of you to say so!