British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Old Oct 6th 2022, 12:24 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

jmin No, they were not.
They are both British citizens now, but only obtained citizenship recently (2016)
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Old Oct 6th 2022, 12:28 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by justin4d
Thanks @jmin that is very kind of you.

Citizenships: My mother (South African born but currently on UK ancestral visa through her grandfather's British ancestry since Feb '21), my Father (South African and was denied the ability to get a UK passport through my maternal grandmother, whilst she was still alive many years ago). Myself - South African.
Maternal grandparents married or not at her birth: I assume you mean grandparents married during my father's birth - if so, then yes as my father was born in 1953 and they were married prior to this in 1950.

Tell me more about your maternal grandmother (your mother's mother). Was she born in the UK meaning England, Scotland, Wales, etc? When was your mother's mother born? When was your mother born? Your mother's father and mother were married when she was born?

I am interested in this for your claim but the changes in the law also mean that it's likely that whatever reasons that led to her prior rejection would now be overcome.

Last edited by jmin; Oct 6th 2022 at 12:29 pm. Reason: remove full quote
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Old Oct 6th 2022, 12:32 pm
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by sptolsma
jmin No, they were not.
They are both British citizens now, but only obtained citizenship recently (2016)
How did they obtain it? What was the basis of the claim? Were they registrations or just an application for a passport?

I want to write an argument that's correct and avoid using your father if, for example, he had an automatic claim. Or if your mother's claim was automatic mentioning why she couldn't use the CBR route or if wasn't automatic how she could have been a British citizen herself if not for gender discrimination. Your mother was born during the federal period so it's possible she had an automatic claim.

Last edited by jmin; Oct 6th 2022 at 12:38 pm.
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Old Oct 6th 2022, 12:45 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by jmin
How did they obtain it? What was the basis of the claim? Were they registrations or just an application for a passport?

I want to write an argument that's correct and avoid using your father if, for example, he had an automatic claim. Or if your mother's claim was automatic mentioning why she couldn't use the CBR route or if wasn't automatic how she could have been a British citizen herself if not for gender discrimination. Your mother was born during the federal period so it's possible she had an automatic claim.
They were both standard routes to British citizenship. My parents could not receive British citizenship as children because of gender discrimination. Their mothers were British, but only men could pass down citizenship at the time. Once that law changed (around 2012) they were able to apply. I hope that helps.
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Old Oct 6th 2022, 1:26 pm
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by jmin
Tell me more about your maternal grandmother (your mother's mother). Was she born in the UK meaning England, Scotland, Wales, etc? When was your mother's mother born? When was your mother born? Your mother's father and mother were married when she was born?

I am interested in this for your claim but the changes in the law also mean that it's likely that whatever reasons that led to her prior rejection would now be overcome.
Hi ​​​jmin
  • My mother's mother was born in SA (1936) (both mother's mother's parents were born in SA).
  • My mother is currently in the UK on ancestral visa after sourcing her original blood father's birth certificate (born in SA and died when my mother was 5) linking her to her UK born grandfather.
  • She had to use her blood father's birth certificate in order to prove the link between her, her blood father (SA born) and her blood grandfather (UK born) - as my mother was legally adopted by her current adopted father at the age of around 7.
  • Therefore my application will not be linked to my mother's mother as this is irrelevant for this CBR claim - if I am correct?
  • The route I will take is my father's mother (per the prior post reply with info).
  • I am not sure what form of application or level of detail / effort my UK grandmother used to apply for a UK passport for her kids as kids or adults, or if she did anything at all to be honest
  • However, I heard via family that it was just something that was not allowed based on the prior laws that were gender discriminatory.
  • Nothing was ever done by the family since she passed on in 2010, and it's only now that I am wanting to take action to look into this, on behalf of the extended family.
Hope this helps somewhat?
Is there a reason why you needed my mother's lineage for the application information?

Also - is there a specific reason why the grandchildren as Applicant's to this ruling would have had to have been born between 1 January 1983 and 31 December 1987? My sister was born in 1989, but am unable to explain to her as to how she is not eligible.

Thanks

Last edited by justin4d; Oct 6th 2022 at 2:43 pm. Reason: Body of info required change.
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Old Oct 8th 2022, 1:18 am
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by sptolsma
Paternal grandfather, Dutch: Netherlands 1932
Paternal grandmother, British: England 1930
Married: 1955
Father: South Africa 1958

Maternal grandfather, South African: South Africa ca. 1940
Maternal grandmother, British: England 1942
Married: 1958
Mother: Rhodesia 1959

My birth 1986
My parents married 1985

Thank you!
Perhaps BritInParis could review this. I am not certain whether it's better to use your mother, your father, or both. You say that both of your parents received their citizenship after your birth as a result of a change in law (gender discrimination), so you can use either or both for the claim. But they might be confused if you use your father (because a father who was a British citizen could register their child during the transitional period, although yours was not at the time). I will do it for your mother, you can replace the specifics for your father.

Claim: If not for historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination my mother could have registered me under BNA 1981 Section 9 (consular birth registration). I am therefore eligible to register as a British Citizen due to the recent changes in British Nationality Law (Section 4L of BNA 1981 which came into force on 28 June 2022).
  1. I was born in 1986 in South Africa.
  2. I was born during BNA 1981's transitional period for consular birth registrations (1983-1987). (Section 9 of BNA 1981)
  3. My mother, born in Zimbabwe in 1959, could have been a British citizen by descent if not for gender discrimination (she subsequently acquired British citizenship after my birth - insert date - because the law changed to address this historical legislative unfairness). Specifically, if not for gender discrimination she could have been a British citizen because her mother (my maternal grandmother) was born in England in 1942.
  4. My maternal grandmother was born in the United Kingdom in the meaning used in BNA 1981 (birth within the United Kingdom and Islands - specifically England)
  5. I would have had the right of abode under the test set out in section 9(1)(b) of BNA 1981 because my maternal grandmother was born in the United Kingdom (Immigration Act of 1971 section 2(1)(b)(ii)).
  6. I satisfy the test in section 9(2) of BNA 1981 because:
  • Immediately before the commencement of BNA 1981 my mother could have been a CUKC by descent if not for historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination (Section 5 of the 1948 Act)
  • My mother was married to my father (although whether or not they were married is immaterial as it is also historical legislative unfairness) - date of marriage was 1985
  • My mother was 'ordinarily resident' in a foreign country under the meaning of the 1948 Act (South Africa is a foreign country under the act from 31 May 1962 to 25 July 1994).
  • My mother would have become a British Citizen on commencement of BNA 1981 if not for historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination (CUKCs by descent with a parent born in the UK became British Citizens on commencement by section 11(1) of BNA 1981).
For your application: Form ARD + guidance;
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...tizen-form-ard

Caseworker guidance (so you can read how a caseworker will approach these applications):
https://assets.publishing.service.go...cumstances.pdf

Here is the right to register under BNA 1981 9(1). Write up a statement that all references to a father are gender discrimination and that South Africa was a foreign country between 31 May 1962 to 25 July 1994 inclusive.

Right to registration by virtue of father's citizenship etc (emphasis mine).

(1)A person born in a foreign country within five years after commencement shall be entitled, on an application for his registration as a British citizen made within the period of twelve months from the date of the birth, to be registered as such a citizen if—

(a)the requirements specified in subsection (2) are fulfilled in the case of that person's father (Note: the use of father is gender discrimination); and

(b)had that person been born before commencement and become a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by virtue of section 5 of the 1948 Act (citizenship by descent) as a result of the registration of his birth at a United Kingdom consulate under paragraph (b) of the proviso to section 5(1) of that Act, he would immediately before commencement have had the right of abode in the United Kingdom by virtue of section 2(1)(b) of the [1971 c. 77.] Immigration Act 1971 as then in force (connection with United Kingdom through parent or grandparent). (Note: you would have had right of abode from your maternal grandmother)

The test in BNA 1981 9(2)
The requirements referred to in subsection (1)(a) are that the father (NOTE: Gender Discrimination) of the person to whom the application relates—

(a)immediately before commencement or at his death (whichever was earlier)—

(i)was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by virtue of section 5 of the 1948 Act (citizenship by descent) (Note: If not for gender discrimination) or was a person who, under any provision of the British Nationality Acts 1948 to 1965 was deemed for the purposes of the proviso to section 5(1) of the 1948 Act to be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent only ; and

(ii)was married to that person's mother ; and

(iii)was ordinarily resident in a foreign country (no matter which) within the meaning of the 1948 Act; and

(b)either—

(i)became a British citizen at commencement and remained such a citizen throughout the period from commencement to the date of the application (Note: Would have become a British Citizen if not for gender discrimination) or, if he died during that period, throughout the period from commencement to his death ; or

(ii)would have become a British citizen at commencement but for his death.

Last edited by jmin; Oct 8th 2022 at 1:23 am.
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Old Oct 10th 2022, 3:21 pm
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by justin4d
Hi ​​​jmin

Where and when you were born: South Africa, Oct 1984 (within the approved dates for CBR)
Where and when your grandparents were born: Will look to apply through my grandmother (father's mother) who was born in UK (1926) and fled to SA on ship during WWII before her parents (both British) joined her at a later stage in SA.
My grandfather (father's father) who married my UK Grandmother in 1950, was South African (born in SA but has 1820 British Settler heritage but irrelevant for this CBR I assume).
Citizenships: My mother (South African born but currently on UK ancestral visa through her grandfather's British ancestry since Feb '21), my Father (South African and was denied the ability to get a UK passport through my maternal grandmother, whilst she was still alive many years ago). Myself - South African.
Maternal grandparents married or not at her birth: I assume you mean grandparents married during my father's birth - if so, then yes as my father was born in 1953 and they were married prior to this in 1950.
Your parents married at the time of your birth: Yes - Apr 1984. Subsequently divorced around 2014/2015.

Also - is there a specific reason why the grandchildren as Applicant's to this ruling would have had to have been born between 1 January 1983 and 31 December 1987? My sister was born in 1989, but am unable to explain to her as to how she is not eligible.

Thanks
I will first address your sister (born in 1989) for the benefit of others and then I will provide an idea for an argument that you can use for your own case. The consular birth registration (CBR) route is for those born during the five year period beginning on 1 January 1983 and ending 31 December 1987. This is from BNA 1981 Section 9. The reason that gender discrimination does not apply for CBR claims for births after 1987 is that neither men nor women could register their children after this date and hence it could not be gender discrimination.

That said, your sister could have a claim if your father spent three years in the UK prior to her birth.

I do not think this is the end of the story, though. As BritInParis has mentioned elsewhere, section 4L (the new law) is very broad. It is broad enough that there is an argument to be made that someone born after 1987 whose parent and/or grandparent was subject to a historical legislative unfairness could still make a plausible registration argument (that would end up in the courts). As a thought experiment, consider the case of consular birth registrations. It's well known that most people who were eligible to register their children under section 9 did not do so. This is generally because they did not know about the changes in law or the twelve-month deadline. But Section 4L in the context of CBRs means that if a chance to make a registration was denied due to gender discrimination, such a registration must be allowed today. Even though we know that most such children would never have been registered at the time (similar logic appeared in the Romein case).

Similarly, those subject to gender discrimination under British nationality laws missed many other chances. For example, consider the case of your father who was denied British Citizenship (and CUKC before it) due to gender discrimination. Had the laws not been discriminatory, there is a chance that your father would have chosen to move to the UK as an adult (or his mother would have moved the family there as a child) or at least lived there for three years. If your father had been a British citizen there is a chance that your sister would have been born in the UK or been able to use the three-year route. We will never know because this chance was denied due to discrimination. This is more than theoretical as it happened in practice - there are many British South Africans living in the UK.

I would expect Sable to test such a claim once they have established other more straightforward routes, such as CBR. They will probably look for an applicant who has documentary evidence that their parent wanted to move to the UK shortly before their birth but could not (job rejection mentioning lack of citizenship, visa denied, visa approved for father but rejected for mother when it would have been approved if the father was a citizen, and so on). I think that such an argument would be weaker if the chance to move to the UK was long before the birth of the applicant (or before the applicant's parents met) as it would call into question the existence of the applicant under such a thought experiment. Ideally, you would want to make an argument that while your mother was pregnant with your sister, your father wanted to move your family to the UK before the birth but could not because he was not a British Citizen.

Claim: If not for historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination my father could have registered me under BNA 1981 Section 9 (five-year transitional period for consular birth registrations). I am therefore eligible to register as a British Citizen due to the recent changes in British Nationality Law that rectified historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination (Section 4L of BNA 1981 which came into force on 28 June 2022).

My paternal grandmother was a British Citizen otherwise than by descent born in the United Kingdom (England) in 1936.
Specifically, my paternal grandmother was a:
First, a natural-born British Subject under the British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914 1(1)(a)
Next, a Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (CUKC) under BNA 1948 12(1)(a)
Finally, a British Citizen otherwise than by descent under BNA 1981 11(1) as she had the right of abode in the United Kingdom under the Immigration Act of 1971 as she was born in England.

I was born in 1984 in South Africa.
I was born during BNA 1981's transitional period for consular birth registrations which lasted from 1983 to 1987. (Section 9 of BNA 1981) This transitional period allowed fathers who were British citizens by descent to register a child as a British citizen within "the period of twelve months from the date of birth" and lasted for 5 years (1983-1987).
My father, born in South Africa in 1953, could have been a British citizen by descent if not for gender discrimination (descent was through fathers, not mothers, at the time). See below for further details:
Specifically, if not for gender discrimination, my father would have 1.) been a CUKC by descent at birth under BNA 1948 5(1) (birth to a mother who was a CUKC and born in the United Kingdom and Colonies, the discriminatory text mentions only 'father') and then 2.) a British citizen by descent by BNA 1981 11(1) as originally enacted (a CUKC who had a right of abode under the Immigration Act of 1971 became a British Citizen on commencement and my father would have had ROA from his mother under the Immigration Act of 1971 2(1)(b)(ii))
I would have had the right of abode under the test set out in section 9(1)(b) of BNA 1981 because my paternal grandmother was born in the United Kingdom (Immigration Act of 1971 section 2(1)(b)(ii)).
I satisfy the test for registration as a British citizen in section 9(2) of BNA 1981 because:
9(2)(a)(i): "Immediately before commencement" of BNA 1981 my father could have been a CUKC by descent if not for historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination (The discriminatory language in section 5 of the 1948 Act referenced in 9(2) of BNA 1981 uses 'father' and not 'mother')
9(2)(a)(ii) My father was married to my mother at the time of my birth (although whether or not they were married is immaterial as it is also historical legislative unfairness) - date of marriage was April 1984
9(2)(a)(ii) My father was 'ordinarily resident' in a foreign country under the meaning of the 1948 Act (South Africa was a foreign country under the act from 31 May 1962 to 25 July 1994, refer to the Home Office's caseworker guidance on the subject).
9(2)(b)(i) My father would have become a British citizen at the commencement of BNA 1981 if not for historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination
The twelve-month registration period in 9(1) is ignored in gender discrimination cases such as mine (refer to Home Office's guidance).

Last edited by jmin; Oct 10th 2022 at 3:34 pm.
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Old Oct 10th 2022, 7:33 pm
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by jmin
I will first address your sister (born in 1989) for the benefit of others and then I will provide an idea for an argument that you can use for your own case. The consular birth registration (CBR) route is for those born during the five year period beginning on 1 January 1983 and ending 31 December 1987. This is from BNA 1981 Section 9. The reason that gender discrimination does not apply for CBR claims for births after 1987 is that neither men nor women could register their children after this date and hence it could not be gender discrimination.

That said, your sister could have a claim if your father spent three years in the UK prior to her birth.

I do not think this is the end of the story, though. As BritInParis has mentioned elsewhere, section 4L (the new law) is very broad. It is broad enough that there is an argument to be made that someone born after 1987 whose parent and/or grandparent was subject to a historical legislative unfairness could still make a plausible registration argument (that would end up in the courts). As a thought experiment, consider the case of consular birth registrations. It's well known that most people who were eligible to register their children under section 9 did not do so. This is generally because they did not know about the changes in law or the twelve-month deadline. But Section 4L in the context of CBRs means that if a chance to make a registration was denied due to gender discrimination, such a registration must be allowed today. Even though we know that most such children would never have been registered at the time (similar logic appeared in the Romein case).

Similarly, those subject to gender discrimination under British nationality laws missed many other chances. For example, consider the case of your father who was denied British Citizenship (and CUKC before it) due to gender discrimination. Had the laws not been discriminatory, there is a chance that your father would have chosen to move to the UK as an adult (or his mother would have moved the family there as a child) or at least lived there for three years. If your father had been a British citizen there is a chance that your sister would have been born in the UK or been able to use the three-year route. We will never know because this chance was denied due to discrimination. This is more than theoretical as it happened in practice - there are many British South Africans living in the UK.

I would expect Sable to test such a claim once they have established other more straightforward routes, such as CBR. They will probably look for an applicant who has documentary evidence that their parent wanted to move to the UK shortly before their birth but could not (job rejection mentioning lack of citizenship, visa denied, visa approved for father but rejected for mother when it would have been approved if the father was a citizen, and so on). I think that such an argument would be weaker if the chance to move to the UK was long before the birth of the applicant (or before the applicant's parents met) as it would call into question the existence of the applicant under such a thought experiment. Ideally, you would want to make an argument that while your mother was pregnant with your sister, your father wanted to move your family to the UK before the birth but could not because he was not a British Citizen.

Claim: If not for historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination my father could have registered me under BNA 1981 Section 9 (five-year transitional period for consular birth registrations). I am therefore eligible to register as a British Citizen due to the recent changes in British Nationality Law that rectified historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination (Section 4L of BNA 1981 which came into force on 28 June 2022).

My paternal grandmother was a British Citizen otherwise than by descent born in the United Kingdom (England) in 1936.
Specifically, my paternal grandmother was a:
First, a natural-born British Subject under the British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914 1(1)(a)
Next, a Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (CUKC) under BNA 1948 12(1)(a)
Finally, a British Citizen otherwise than by descent under BNA 1981 11(1) as she had the right of abode in the United Kingdom under the Immigration Act of 1971 as she was born in England.

I was born in 1984 in South Africa.
I was born during BNA 1981's transitional period for consular birth registrations which lasted from 1983 to 1987. (Section 9 of BNA 1981) This transitional period allowed fathers who were British citizens by descent to register a child as a British citizen within "the period of twelve months from the date of birth" and lasted for 5 years (1983-1987).
My father, born in South Africa in 1953, could have been a British citizen by descent if not for gender discrimination (descent was through fathers, not mothers, at the time). See below for further details:
Specifically, if not for gender discrimination, my father would have 1.) been a CUKC by descent at birth under BNA 1948 5(1) (birth to a mother who was a CUKC and born in the United Kingdom and Colonies, the discriminatory text mentions only 'father') and then 2.) a British citizen by descent by BNA 1981 11(1) as originally enacted (a CUKC who had a right of abode under the Immigration Act of 1971 became a British Citizen on commencement and my father would have had ROA from his mother under the Immigration Act of 1971 2(1)(b)(ii))
I would have had the right of abode under the test set out in section 9(1)(b) of BNA 1981 because my paternal grandmother was born in the United Kingdom (Immigration Act of 1971 section 2(1)(b)(ii)).
I satisfy the test for registration as a British citizen in section 9(2) of BNA 1981 because:
9(2)(a)(i): "Immediately before commencement" of BNA 1981 my father could have been a CUKC by descent if not for historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination (The discriminatory language in section 5 of the 1948 Act referenced in 9(2) of BNA 1981 uses 'father' and not 'mother')
9(2)(a)(ii) My father was married to my mother at the time of my birth (although whether or not they were married is immaterial as it is also historical legislative unfairness) - date of marriage was April 1984
9(2)(a)(ii) My father was 'ordinarily resident' in a foreign country under the meaning of the 1948 Act (South Africa was a foreign country under the act from 31 May 1962 to 25 July 1994, refer to the Home Office's caseworker guidance on the subject).
9(2)(b)(i) My father would have become a British citizen at the commencement of BNA 1981 if not for historical legislative unfairness/gender discrimination
The twelve-month registration period in 9(1) is ignored in gender discrimination cases such as mine (refer to Home Office's guidance).

@jmin what you have provided me with, in terms of your time and efforts, are absolutely incredible - I cannot thank you enough! Now for the next steps of filling out the official application!
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Old Oct 14th 2022, 11:54 am
  #39  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by justin4d
@jmin what you have provided me with, in terms of your time and efforts, are absolutely incredible - I cannot thank you enough! Now for the next steps of filling out the official application!
Keep us updated on the application. It would be helpful to others in the future if we know that the Home Office accepted the argument.

You also need to source a number of documents, if you have not already done so. Paternal grandmother's birth certificate and marriage certificate, birth and marriage certificates for your parents, your birth certificate, and so on. The UK birth certificate from England can be ordered online from the GRO. I believe South Africans also have to apply to retain their nationality?
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Old Oct 14th 2022, 1:25 pm
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by jmin
Keep us updated on the application. It would be helpful to others in the future if we know that the Home Office accepted the argument.

You also need to source a number of documents, if you have not already done so. Paternal grandmother's birth certificate and marriage certificate, birth and marriage certificates for your parents, your birth certificate, and so on. The UK birth certificate from England can be ordered online from the GRO. I believe South Africans also have to apply to retain their nationality?
jmin So far I have the following documents:
  • Republic of SA: Full birth certificate - myself, Father (linked to British Grandmother) & my Mother
  • UK: Entry of Birth - British Grandmother
  • Republic of SA: Marriage certificate of British Grandmother & SA Grandfather (Father's father)
  • Marriage & Divorce certificates: My Father & Mother
For anyone that has applied, I have some questions.

I found the following under the link shown:


"Fees are payable in accordance with The Immigration and Nationality (Fees) Regulations 2018. There is no application fee to apply for British citizenship if you would have acquired that status automatically (but for historical legislative unfairness, an act or omission of a public authority, or exceptional circumstances), but you will need to pay the ceremony fee of £80 if you are over the age of 18. You need to send this with your application, using the payment slip.If, however, you would have qualified for registration or naturalisation but for legislative unfairness, an act or omission of a public authority or exceptional circumstances, you will still need to pay an application fee to register under this route, as well as a ceremony fee. Fees are listed on our fees page."
Link: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ard-accessible
Fees link: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/330

--> So based on the fact that this application is related to historical unfairness, am I right to assume that I only need to pay the £80 and not the £1.5k that I was quoted was a Govt processing fee (and not charged by Sable Intl. themselves)?

Also - is it best to rather submit the Full application & legal argument via post, or is there a better, more efficient digital solution for online application? (as I cannot for the life of me, find it anywhere!)
Paper application link: https://assets.publishing.service.go...r_guidance.pdf
Finally - is there any other way to pay for the Gov't services other than this antiquated paper documented system (see below) which could lead to fraud?
https://assets.publishing.service.go...Slip_-_PDF.pdf

Thanks all!

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Old Oct 14th 2022, 3:51 pm
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by justin4d
jmin So far I have the following documents:

--> So based on the fact that this application is related to historical unfairness, am I right to assume that I only need to pay the £80 and not the £1.5k that I was quoted was a Govt processing fee (and not charged by Sable Intl. themselves)?
1.5k is what Sable would have charged you to make the application on your behalf. It is not a fee that would have gone to the Home Office. There would have been a line item mentioning government fees because they roll the cost of the citizenship ceremony into the total cost.

You have to submit your documents by post/courier so you couldn't do it all online even if that was an option.
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Old Oct 16th 2022, 11:23 am
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

It’s worth noting that the £80 is merely a contribution to your citizenship ceremony following a successful application. The application itself is free.
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Old Oct 25th 2022, 2:47 am
  #43  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

I wonder if someone can weigh in on my case and tell me what they think my chances are under the new nationality legislation. I think I should be eligible under section 4L.

My maternal grandmother was born in Hertfordshire, England, UK in 1923 to parents also born in Herts and she was a British citizen at birth. She married my American grandfather in 1945 in Cambridge, UK and moved to the US and had my mother in 1955 in the US. My maternal grandmother was still a British citizen (she never became a US citizen) when my mom was born, but of course she wasn't able to pass that British citizenship onto my mother because of the historical legislative unfairness. My mother married an American and had me in 1976 in the US.

It is my understanding that if not for the unfairness, my mother would have been a British citizen by descent at birth, and then when I was born in 1976 she could have registered by birth in my first year so that I also would have been a British citizen by descent - is that correct? My argument would then rely on these facts and the Romein case/new legislation that says that registration not happening can't be held against me in weighing my case.

Thank you!
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Old Oct 25th 2022, 7:45 am
  #44  
 
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by Glassybell
I wonder if someone can weigh in on my case and tell me what they think my chances are under the new nationality legislation. I think I should be eligible under section 4L.

My maternal grandmother was born in Hertfordshire, England, UK in 1923 to parents also born in Herts and she was a British citizen at birth. She married my American grandfather in 1945 in Cambridge, UK and moved to the US and had my mother in 1955 in the US. My maternal grandmother was still a British citizen (she never became a US citizen) when my mom was born, but of course she wasn't able to pass that British citizenship onto my mother because of the historical legislative unfairness. My mother married an American and had me in 1976 in the US.

It is my understanding that if not for the unfairness, my mother would have been a British citizen by descent at birth, and then when I was born in 1976 she could have registered by birth in my first year so that I also would have been a British citizen by descent - is that correct? My argument would then rely on these facts and the Romein case/new legislation that says that registration not happening can't be held against me in weighing my case.

Thank you!
Sounds pretty cut and dry to me. I would make a Form ARD application.
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Old Oct 27th 2022, 5:00 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by BritInParis
Sounds pretty cut and dry to me. I would make a Form ARD application.
I just wonder if anyone thinks this difference in wording in the new law is significant. Section 4L(2) does not include the "would have been able to become" portion, which in a case like mine that depends on the registration aspect in my first year, seems to apply. So the law looks like it excludes people like me. But maybe this is just sloppy writing and not meaningful? Sections:

“Under section 4L of the British Nationality Act 1981, a person may be registered as a British citizen if:
  • in the Secretary of State’s opinion, they would have been, or would have been able to become, a British citizen but for at least one of:
    • historical legislative unfairness…


Section 4L(2) states that “historical legislative unfairness” includes, but is not limited to, where the person would have become, or not ceased to be, a British subject, citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or British citizen, if an Act of Parliament, or subordinate legislation, had:
  • treated men and women equally…”
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