abroad

Hello everyone,

I have a few questions regarding my elegibility to claim UK citizenship by descent. Here is my situation:

I born in Spain ( I guess Canary Islands is irrelevant ) 1972.
Mother British Citizen born overseas ( Canary Islands ) 1937. Nationality status not mentioned within her british consular birth certificate. British Citizen status in her latest passport. In older passport British Subject.
Mother´s father British Citizen born in UK 1909. British Subject by birth in his birth certificate 1904.
Mother´s mother British Citizen born overseas ( Canary Islands ) 1909. British Subject by birth in her birth certificate.

According to all the above it is clear my mother aquired CUKC by descent, therefore not able to pass citizenship on to her children.

However, searching through the internet I have found this ( in red ):


the winners are:
1. � persons born� prior to 1983 in a foreign country to fathers born in the UK (1st generation paternal line), such persons automatically acquired British nationality at birth and are British citizens today;
2. persons born prior to 1983 in a foreign country, to a father born in a foreign country, where the paternal grandfather was born in the UK (2nd generation� paternal line), such persons acquired British nationality at birth (e.g. where born in a country where His Majesty exercised jurisdiction over British subjects) or could and did acquire British nationality (by registration of the birth at a British consulate); such persons are British citizen today;
3. persons born prior to 1983 in a foreign country, to mothers born in the UK (1st generation maternal line), such persons have access today to registration as a British citizen under s 4C of the � 1981 Act; and
4. persons born prior to 1983 in a foreign country, to mothers also born in a foreign country but where the maternal grandfather was born in the UK so the mother has British nationality (2nd generation born outside the UK, via a mother - so maternal line - but with a maternal grandfather), such persons have access today to registration as a British citizen under s 4C of the 1981 Act;

The full text is here: Cosmopolis — UK Remaining Gender Discrimination in British...

If it was true, I would be able to aquire British Citizenship through my british born grandfather who was British Citizen otherwise than by descent.

I´ve been reading thoroughly Section 4C of the BNA 1981, ammended in 2014, but I can´t find nothing that corroborates this. Most likely I have misread something?.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

HKG3

From my limited understanding, the only way that I can see the OP getting British Citizenship by descent is at the time of the OP's mother's birth, the grandfather was in crown service.

I would question why the OP wants British Citizenship by descent. As a British Citizen by descent, the OP cannot automatically pass on British Citizenship to any children born outside the UK. Is the OP not already a Spanish citizen? As a Spanish citizen, the OP can come to the UK to work via the freedom of movement. Once the OP spend five years exercising EEA treaty rights in the UK, he could apply for permanent residence and then 12 months later can naturalize as a British Citizen other than by descent, which means that the OP can automatically pass on British Citizenship to any children born overseas after naturalization.

angie_329

The link you quote from is by Adrian Berry, who contributed to the legal tome British Nationality law (3rd ed) authored by Laurie Fransman QC. They are the leading authorities in this complex area at (Garden Court Chambers- Barristers). Unless an application for British nationality is straightfoward it is, at times, necessary to have the legal opinion from an expert to quote to the home office if the application does not 'fit' the standard form or is subject to legal interpretation or subsquent case law.
This can be expensive, so hopefully someone in the forum like BIP may be able to tell you if you can apply under that section.
You could also try and run the dates and places of birth of those ancestors into the philip gamble co uk site, which has an online database which can give a result of definite/likely/possible/not likely on British Citizenship queries, which they specialise in, as a first step.

abroad

Thanks both for the advise.

Unfortunately my grandfather was not in crown service at the time of my mothers birth.
Once the UK leaves the EU who knows whats happenning next...I hope being british before this happens would help in the future.
I have already ran the philip gamble and this is the result:
British Citizenship by Double Descent (Crown Service-48c)
British Citizenship by Double Descent (Registration-48b2)
British Citizenship by Descent
British Citizenship by Double Descent

Yes, they are the leading authorities in this area. Thats why I take into account that much what is in the quoted link.

Thanks

BritInParis

British citizenship could be passed on outside the UK via the paternal line to the second generation and beyond under the BNA 1948 between 1949 and 1983 if the child was registered with a British consulate within the first year of birth or later on a discretionary basis or the father was in Crown service.

Under the BNA 1915 a similar arrangement was in place, with subsequent generations born overseas were able to be registered as British subjects within one year of birth after 1 August 1922.

Whilst Section 4C is intended to remove the gender discrimination that existed in British nationality law prior to 1983 I don't think it necessarily follows that someone born overseas to a foreign-born mother and a UK-born maternal grandfather would now be eligible for registration as their birth was still not registered within a year of their birth.

You would need to make the argument if that if the law permitted it at the time that such a person would have been registered by their parents within a year of their birth. Given that S.5 of the BNA 1948 does state "the birth is registered at a United Kingdom consulate within one year of its occurrence, or, with the permission of the Secretary of State, later" you could also perhaps argue that this is the late registration you would have been entitled to if your mother was able to pass on her British citizenship in the same way a British father could've done.

Given that a Section 4C registration application is free why not give it a whirl?

abroad

Thanks very much for your input BritInParis.

It seems that´s why my grandparents registered my mother at the consulate followed to travelling to UK during her first year.

I´m unable to find out how to register under section 4C. My research just point out to UKM route: Born overseas to british mothers before 1983 (otherwise than by descent).

Thanks

BritInParis

Form UKM is right. Section 4C is the relevant piece of legislation that you are looking to be registered under.

abroad

I was wondering what my mother´s grandparents has to do with it if it is through my mother british by descent only according to Section 5 BNA 1948.

BNA 1948 S.5:

5.—(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth:



Provided that if the father of such a person is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent only, that person shall not be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by virtue of this section unless—



(a) that person is born or his father was born in a protectorate, protected state, mandated territory or trust territory or any place in a foreign country where by treaty, capitulation, grant, usage, sufferance, or other lawful means, His Majesty then has or had jurisdiction over British subjects; or



(b) that person's birth having occurred in a place in a foreign country other than a place such as is mentioned in the last foregoing paragraph, the birth is registered at a United Kingdom consulate within one year of its occurrence, or, with the permission of the Secretary of State, later; or



(c) that person's father is, at the time of the birth, in Crown service under His Majesty's government in the United Kingdom; or



(d) that person is born in any country mentioned in subsection (3) of section one of this Act in which a citizenship law has then taken effect and does not become a citizen thereof on birth.



(2) If the Secretary of State so directs, a birth shall be deemed for the purposes of this section to have been registered with his permission notwithstanding that his permission was not obtained before the registration.



Therefore as far as I understand if my father was british (by descent though) at the time of my birth, I had been able to register as british citizen by descent by registration at a UK consulate within a year?.

Again, thanks

BritInParis

This is why Mr Berry thinks you could now do so belatedly with a Section 4C registration instead as this method was denied to you at the time as your mother was British by descent rather than your father.

abroad

Then attach a letter explaining my situation would be a good idea?.
I guess that sending the application as it is will be refused automatically by the HO on the basis of british by descent mother.
I´ll try to collect all relevant documents along with a full legal analysis of the circumstances and chain of events, and, If you don´t mind I´ll post it here for further advise.

BritInParis

It can't hurt. It's one interpretation of the law, how the Home Office will treat such an application I don't know. Give it a go and let us know.

abroad

Here is the letter to attach to my UKM application.
Any help/advise would be greatly appreciated specially with the last paragraph.
Is my parents marriage certificate needed in this case?.

Thanks in advance


I assert my right to registration to British citizenship is by operation of law. My right to registration to citizenship assertion is based upon the following core items:

My maternal grandfather was a natural-born British subject.
My grandparents were lawfully married and registered.
My mother was born in Spain 1937, thus also a natural-born British subject.
My mother acquired Citizen of the UK and Colonies (CUKC) status by operation of law in 1949.
My parents were lawfully married in Spain 1955.
I was born in the Spanish administered Non-UK Trust Territory of Tenerife 1972.
My mother had not renounced CUKC status prior to the commencement of the British Nationality Act 1981. (BNA1981)
I had not renounced CUKC status prior to the commencement of BNA1981.

IN DETAIL

PRINCIPAL ANALYSIS

Maternal Grandparents.

Grandfather – born London, England 05/01/1904
Grandmother – born Tenerife, Spain 16/01/1909
Married in Las Palmas, Spain 2/02/1927

Parents.

Father born 1932 in Spain.
Mother born 1937 in Spain.
Married in Las Palmas, Spain 1955.

Myself.

Born 1972 in the Spanish administered Non-UK Trust Territory of Tenerife.

Analysis.

Maternal grandmother and grandfather are both natural-born British subjects. s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.
By virtue of birth, mother is a natural-born British subject. s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.

In 1937 mother becomes a British subject at birth. s1 (1)(a) British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914.

On the 1st of January 1949, mother automatically becomes Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (CUKC). s12(2) British Nationality Act 1948 (BNA1948)

Mother is a CUKC , as well as remaining a British subject . s1 BNA1948

In 1955 father and mother lawfully marry in Las Palmas, Spain.

I born 1972 in Tenerife, formerly Spanish administered non-UK Mandated Territory.

I become CUKC by descent at birth (s5.1(b) BNA1948).

I do not renounce CUKC status prior to 1/01/1983.

I would have become British citizen (by descent) on 1/01/1983 (s11.(1) British Nationality Act 1981) by consular registration within one year of my birth (s4C BNA1981), due to mother being British citizen by descent and grandparents British otherwise than by descent if my mother was able to pass on her British citizenship in the same way a British father could've done at the time of my birth.