Victor Meldrew

There is an outside possibilty that my wife can get a Portugese passport in the next 3 months. This will help us bypass this stupid non EEU spouse procedure. We have just begun the process.

Can anybody guide me to the differences this will make (ie ILR, ability to claim benefits if needed(though to be honest we dont want these and will only claim as a last resort), eventual UK citizenship etc etc)

Thanks

WEBlue

Not sure about benefits, but have you checked this UKBA page on EU citizens' right & responsibilities while living in the UK?
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eu...eea-nationals/

Victor Meldrew

What would be the situation if GB decided to withdraw from the EU? I am presuming that the right to reside for EU citizens would be withdrawn - is this correct?

DaveLovesDee

I beleve that if the UK were to withdraw from the, that EU citizens already residing in the UK would be allowed to remain, and those not would lose the right.

In which case, were we to announce we're leaving the EU, I think we'd see a large influx of low-paid European workers trying to get in before we close the door.

WEBlue

Yes, this is a huge question!

I have no idea myself, but there was a thread recently in this part of BE that discussed this issue. Don't know if you saw it:
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...h#post10363562

WEBlue

Oops, I just saw that you actually posted on the thread I linked, Victor Meldrew, so of course you saw it. And not only did you post on that thread but I replied to your post there!

I think I'll have to blame my senior memory for posting a link without looking at it thoroughly.

alliekat

I don't know if anyone answered this yet, I've been at this forum all night and don't have the patience to go forward to find out.

Lodger income does not count, if the lodger resides in your primary residence. We were counting on our lodger income (it puts us over the income threshold) but found out since we can't use it. In fact, 3 of 4 of our sources of income are not acceptable.

I won't be able to join my husband in the foreseeable future.

englishguygoinghome

Hi Alliekat, welcome and my condolences on your situation. I'd be interested to know where you found that information regarding lodgers (someone else's experience on another forum, legal advice, a part of the rules I've missed?). I would like to add it to the wiki page as a warning to others but after checking the rules all I could find were these two sections - netiher of which rule out lodgers:

Any help you can give to help warn others would be great!

alliekat

5.4.3 of Annex FM 1.7 states explicitly:

Property rental income: The property, in the UK or overseas, must be owned by the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly, and must not be their main residence (and therefore income from a lodger in that residence cannot be counted). If the applicant’s partner or applicant shares ownership of the property with a third party, only income received from the applicant’s partner’s and/or applicant’s share of the property can be counted. Income from property which is rented out for only part of the year (e.g. a holiday let) can be counted. The equity in a property cannot be used to meet the financial requirement.

To find this yourself via UKBA website:

Go to the UKBA home page. http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/

Click "Visas and Immigration" from the menu on the left side of page.

Click "Partners and Family" from menu on left.

Click "Partners" from the subheading in the center of the page.

Click "Can you apply" from the menu on the left.

Click the "Financial requirement" link located in the bullet points in the center of the page.

Click on "Annex FM 1.7" on the bottom right corner of the page.

It will open an adobe file.

Click "ctrl + f" to open your find word option.

Type the word "lodger" into the box.

It will take you directly to section 5.4.3, that explicitly states lodger income from your primary residence does not count.

Hope it helps.

Victor Meldrew

So I can have a 2 bed house, rent one bed out and it doesnt count.

I can sell this 2 bed house and buy 2 x 1 bed apartments, live in one and rent the other out, and this does count

Doesnt make sense. Mind you - par for the course.

DaveLovesDee

Does anything any politician ever do make sense?

In the above situation, I'd suggest most applicants would have more disposable income having a lodger in a 2 bedroom house than running 2 seperate 1 bedroom properties.

alliekat

Given what is written and how it is written, I don't know if buying an apartment building and living in one would count. If you go by the "letter" of the law, then there is room for interpreting this rule as your "primary residence" being the same address, if they want to get crazy and be sticklers.

Secondarily, you could rent out your home, and find an apartment somewhere for a year. This would give you "appropriate" rental income and if you rented out your house for 1550 per year, you'd meet the financial requirements for income. I don't know if the market where you live would allow you to charge that much.

The UKBA does not do any balance sheets whatsoever, so any income you gain (via "acceptable" channels) is considered income, and there is absolutely no regard for your expenses. You could live in the red (spend more than you bring in) and it's fine, as long as you meet the income requirements. Hard Line Rule.

alliekat

They are not interested in how much money you have to spend/support yourself. The income requirement applies to those living in London, just as it applies to those living in Horley. Of course, 18600 is impossible to survive on in London, but will go farther in Horley.

With hardline rules, it's about the black and white "letter" of the law and ICO do not have the discretion to take anything that falls in the paradigm of "common sense" into account.

Man, I wish I could finish law school and do Immigration law in the UK (I got through 1.5 years in the U.S. before I ran out of money - thank you cancer.)

This is an absolute disaster.

englishguygoinghome

Thanks - that's the IDI, which is the instructions to the Entry Clearance Officer on how to interpret the rules. I find it very concerning that there is something of this magnitude in there which is not in the rules. Not surprising but concerning.

Time for me to go and read the IDIs too. In practice you would likely find that any refusal in such circumstances would win at appeal if you could show that the rules were followed but that helps no-one as it's a painful and long journey to get an appeal.

englishguygoinghome

Hmm - a quick reading of that IDI hows anopther discrepency in my opinion: they are restricting the combinations of income / savings in the IDI where this is not given by the rules.
Any specialists out there who can comment on the legality of that? (I'm just a layman so can only speculate)