Pammy

Morning, me again!

OK, I had been looking at St Lucia to holiday home, snowbird and ultimately retire BUT someone on the forum sent me info on Turks & Caicos and to be honest it looks more like what we are looking for so I am re-thinking and planning a trip there.

If anyone can give me any info on Turks & Caicos I would appreciate it very much, even just if you are there and want to share your experiences.

I have looked at real estate but noticed there are not a lot of hurricane proof homes advertised, is there a reason for this?

I understand if you invest $500,000 US in a home then you can more or less come and go as you please?

Someone mentioned you need to take out an insurance policy to fly you off the island if you are really sick as there is no hospital....yet, anyone have one, how much?

Are there any good dentists or should I aim for falsers by the time I retire?!

Anyway, any input would be appreciated!

Thanks, Pam & Sandy.

les666

hi..well I just noticed this message with no replies so here we go.....will cut and paste to make life easier....

Ok, the Turks and caicos islands, background....several islands just below the Bahama chain..., the capital is on Grand Turk in the south where its mostly locals or belongers.., in the north you find Providenciales..this island is where the main tourist trade goes on and most expats live. We have a small house on a resort called Grace Bay, if you google it and look at the images you will see why its so popular. This we hope will one day be our retirement home.. prices there havent dropped except the huge overpriced units..

Rule of law?? well its a British island although hardly anyone has heard of it, bit like the Falklands prior to 1982...recently the UK government went back and took over rule as the local officials were robbing the country blind..the 1st Minister is a crook and has run away (although thats just what is said and not yet proved in a court of law. ) I cant say if there is any substance to this, however he left behind a 15 million dollar house on his small salary so something doesnt add up..I think selling crown land to his family and friends was the last straw...

Property there has all the same sort of legal rights as in the UK, decent lawyers do exist and the great thing is there is no language barrier.
Cars are mostly left hand drive American cars..well trucks, these things make a Range Rover look small... cars that are right hand drive are available, these come direct from Japan. They drive on the left as in the UK.

There is a reasonable, Police & fire service who try their best..a new hospital has nearly been finished although I dont know if they will have the money to run it..most expats have medical insurance which takes them to america if there is a major problem.

so to your questions...


I have looked at real estate but noticed there are not a lot of hurricane proof homes advertised, is there a reason for this?
yes; firstly no property is hurricane proof, except maybe the shelters which are like a bunker.. however with the exception of 2008 where the island had 2 near hits they havent had a direct hit for many years..we spoke to people in their 20s who had never seen one.. however building regs are quite strict and all new places should hold up to a cat 4, with shutters then maybe a cat 5 but thats bad if its a direct hit..the problem lays mainly in areas like Grand Turk where the flimsy shelters and poorly constructed buildings just blow away.


I understand if you invest $500,000 US in a home then you can more or less come and go as you please?
kind of... you have to apply for a residents permit, there is a charge and from memory its about $1,500 a year with $100 for each dependent......without this you get a FREE tourist visitors visa which lasts 3 months...after 3 months take a short journey abroad ie Florida, and get it re stamped, sounds a pain but trust me after 3 months you get island crazy and need a break ..generally after 3 years you can apply for a PRC, which again from memory costs about $15,000 + legal fees but this is a one off fee for life.

Someone mentioned you need to take out an insurance policy to fly you off the island if you are really sick as there is no hospital....yet, anyone have one, how much? you dont have to, however its a good idea if you do, insurance cost depends on many things ...bit like asking how much a car insurance will be..get quotes..

Are there any good dentists or should I aim for falsers by the time I retire?!
there are 2 good dentists that I know of, and a local doctor ...all are private and expats..mainly British and Canadian.

you will have loads more questions now as one answer leads to 3 more questions. ie cost of flights, best flight route, work visa, cost of living, best real estate agents etc etc..so if I havent put you off feel free to list your questions..

regards
Les & Alison

Pammy

Thanks Les, I am not too worried about cost of living as we are fairly modest and by the time we retire it shouldn't be a concern, luckily!

One question I do have though as I am having no luck finding out, we both have Canadian and British passports, as the Islands are British rule does that mean we can stay there no questions asked or do we still have to apply for a residents permit?

I just spoke to a customer who stopped on a cruise at Grand Turk, she hated it said it was filthy and the beaches were littered, is this the norm for here,we are looking at Provo(isn't everyone?!)and planning on visiting as soon as we can.

Anyway thanks for your input, by the way over christmas we had a windchill of -40 average!

Take Care, Pam

les666

hi..
basically Grand Turk is the capital and is where most of the belongers (locals) live, yes its a dump, the Belonger government had a lovely time whilst in power and spent every penny the country had, plus a lot more.. When the hurricanes hit over a year a go it destroyed pretty much everything and as there was no money it stayed like that.. Provo is totally different, beaches are fantastic, people are nice, lots of expats although numbers have dropped due to lack of work.. IF you were in a position to buy you could get a bargain but like all things you need to know the right places..if you wish to contact me direct then I can offer some real estate agents details, i dont think I can do it here as it may be seen as advertising..
For a visit consider the Sands as a very nice budget holiday. look at www.tripadvisor.com or do a Google search on Grace Bay Providenciales..

regards

[email protected]

les666

oops, forgot to mention visa question..
it doesnt matter if you have a Canadian, American or British passport..the most you can spend in the TCI on a visitors visa is 3 months..however if you think oh I have to leave every few months then it wont be as bad as you think as you can get fed up with a smallish island..A short trip to New York or Florida or even one of the other local islands is enough...failing that get the residents visa.

RayM.

Hi Pammy,

Turks is expensive for residency & work permits. (Not to mention citizenship).

I live in St. Lucia. Too much to talk in here...
If you plan a looksee trip, please contact me.

les666

This sounds like someone who knows everything about nothing.. How does someone who lives in St Lucia know the cost of living in the TCI and able to compare it to the UK? prices in TCI are about the same as the UK, sometimes more but sometimes less..ie petro/gas is as of today $7.32 a gallon in the UK. Entry visa is for 3 months, residency visa is over $1,000 a year.. however offset that against the tax free system..

also look at crime and murder stats for the 2 islands..the only reason someone would want you to talk about this off of this forum with a view to a trip is if they were somehow involved in the tourist or real estate business..

RayM.

@ les666

I didn't know I was interupting something here.

1. I didn't compare the cost of living in Turks with UK. Why would I compare pears to apples???

2. The tax free is no advantage to people who don't make any money like hotel employees, small businesses or folks like you who post in forums ... (That's 99.98% of total island population).

3. There are several Lucian contractors in Turks for the past 15+ years, but there is no Turk contractor in St. Lucia.

4. The constructions in TCI are expensive and poor quality. Don't make the mistake to believe foreigners have never seen houses before, and seeing those buildings in TCI will make their jaw drop with surprise.

5. TCI has no vegetation, just bushes, and not even subsistence agriculture. Nothing grows on limestone (died coral reefs) in TCI. Not to go too deep into this subject, I only mention that St. Lucia is a strong exporter of fruits and vegetables, and the land is very fertile.

6. No matter how much you like TCI or try to amaze us with your "knowledge", you can't deny that it's not as beautiful as St. Lucia.

7. No real estate person in his right mind recruits potential buyers from these forums. I expressed my opinions here to help, just like the next guy, and if you happen not to like them, well, that's you ...
Only somebody with narrow views can hide behind the computer and spit venom anonymously when in fact he/she should learn.

les666

I didn't know I was interupting something here.

you was... firstly Im not accusing you of anything, but the conversation was about relocating from Scotland in the UK to the 'Turks and Caicos Islands' not St Lucia or a choice of the two.. and you leave a short statement which says, quote..

I live in St. Lucia. Too much to talk in here...
If you plan a looksee trip, please contact me.

and add that to the fact your a new member with very few posts and on another post regarding moving to the TCI you wrote about going to St Lucia instead with the statement... quote..

''I live in St. Lucia, and if you take a trip down here for a looksee tour, I can help you with advice and business guidance.''

then the alarm bells ring, others have tried this in the past...this is normally to sell/rent property or show them round the island and they will arrange everything!!??.. its a typical expat scam and I apologise here and now if I offended an innocent person. I will now cover the points raised


1. I didn't compare the cost of living in Turks with UK. Why would I compare pears to apples???

no you didnt, but thats what they are looking for..

2. The tax free is no advantage to people who don't make any money like hotel employees, small businesses or folks like you who post in forums ... (That's 99.98% of total island population).

if you have a sum of money to invest you dont pay tax on the return. This island is for expat workers (and there isnt much work), or retired persons looking for a decent, reasonably safe place to live, with the most important thing...a tax free life...the cost of what we call council tax in the UK is often thousands per year, this does not exist in TCI so more than covers the cost of a residency visa..

3. There are several Lucian contractors in Turks for the past 15+ years, but there is no Turk contractor in St. Lucia.

That simply means building work was going on in the TCI due to the expanding growth and the wages were higher..
However there are now very few work permits being given out to people in the building sector, so the St Lucian builders will now be home, or soon will be.

4. The constructions in TCI are expensive and poor quality. Don't make the mistake to believe foreigners have never seen houses before, and seeing those buildings in TCI will make their jaw drop with surprise.

Expensive??? property starts at $150,000 going up to $15 million..due to building regulations all new property has to be at hurricane Cat 4 standard, the highest standard in the Caribbean...the only exceptions would be on older property and cheap housing, sadly this is what is normally occupied by locals or belongers.
Look at www.tcrea.com for a full listing of all property.

5. TCI has no vegetation, just bushes, and not even subsistence agriculture. Nothing grows on limestone (died coral reefs) in TCI. Not to go too deep into this subject, I only mention that St. Lucia is a strong exporter of fruits and vegetables, and the land is very fertile.

Yes you are correct, however the people in TCI are lucky in having one of the best beaches in the world on Grace Bay, they have an economy driven by tourism not production of fruit or sugar so are not at the mercy of produce buyers..just look at what happened in the banana industry recently.... The drawback of tourism is people can be fickle and what is 'in' one year is old news the next, therefore a constant level of quality must be given and the mix with holiday condos and private housing needs to be balanced...the good news is they do not have a cruise liner port on Provodenciales.

6. No matter how much you like TCI or try to amaze us with your "knowledge", you can't deny that it's not as beautiful as St. Lucia.

I dont try to amaze anyone, I give facts and observations as I see them..I speak from first hand 'experience' of 30 years working and living in the islands... I have worked in both of the Islands in question, I have rented in both and own a RETIREMENT property on Provo, I also work & have property in the UK.

Remember if there was a place that was perfect then everyone would want to be there and it would soon be ruined..


yes you are correct St Lucia is more beautiful, this has never been a question, had the 'comparison' been asked for I would have said it was one of the more beautiful of the Caribbean islands mainly due to the volcano and the lush vegetation, however it has more bugs, crime, drugs, snakes etc etc..and Provo in comparison is more expensive.


My 'feeling' of how the islands are go like this...
If you want to party and have fun, with a cheaper cost of living than the UK, go to the beautiful St Lucia, however its not the same as visiting on holiday/vacation so go for a month at least.
To have a quality relaxing holiday or to retire I would go to an island where the costs are similar to the UK but is totally tax free...Provodenciales..


7. No real estate person in his right mind recruits potential buyers from these forums. I expressed my opinions here to help, just like the next guy, and if you happen not to like them, well, that's you ...
Only somebody with narrow views can hide behind the computer and spit venom anonymously when in fact he/she should learn.

As explained previously as a new member you need to keep on subject and give information that is requested, not give what amounts to a 'contact me' statement as sadly used by those with an alternative agenda who DO on occasion try and hijack forum threads.....I don't hide and am quite happy to discuss matters that are relevant..

I doubt that this additional info will help much, except to see that moving abroad from what we know creates lots of questions and with each answer more questions are made.

RayM.

@ les666

Thank you for caring to explain your views.

1. I never knew established expats are scamming incoming expats. What happens most of the time is for locals to scam them ... Not to say, that usually, thieves in UK, TCI, SLU or all over the world, are afraid only of other thieves ...
I personally know a hotel owner in TCI who has been ordered to hire such and such person, failing which his life would be in danger ...
(I know more, but let's leave it at that).

2. If Brits want to live in a tax free country, why don't they make UK as such ...

3. Nobody cares about the bananas in St. Lucia, only the farmers. The island is very fertile and one can eat fruits & vegetables not found in most of the world. Many countries of the world would love to have the variety this little island has.

4. Returning Lucian contractors? Well, the party in TCI is over, so they will have to face new music, most likely rock'n'roll ...

5. If the spirit of correctitude exists here, why are my posts deleted? Is freedom of speech only for some forum members, not for everybody?

@ Pammy

YOU ARE THE JUDGE of this thread, so what's your opinion?

les666

1. I never knew established expats are scamming incoming expats.
it does happen, you dont say where you come from originally??

2. If Brits want to live in a tax free country, why don't they make UK as such ...
you are kidding me?? we would love to have a tax free country..except the UK would be in an even bigger mess than it is now if it lost all revinue from tax.
Tax and interest rates are not left up to the like of me or you to decide what the rate is or if we should pay it....


3. Nobody cares about the bananas in St. Lucia, only the farmers.
So are the farmers nobodies?

4. Returning Lucian contractors? Well, the party in TCI is over, so they will have to face new music, most likely rock'n'roll ...
The same the world over, thing called a recession, I hope they will have work when they return home.

5. If the spirit of correctitude exists here, why are my posts deleted?
Is freedom of speech only for some forum members, not for everybody?

maybe because you offer business services and jump into threads that have nothing to do with what you are saying.. for someone offering to help with business and financial matters you do make some strange statements..

Pammy

@ Pammy

YOU ARE THE JUDGE of this thread, so what's your opinion? [/QUOTE]

Morning All!

Been kinda busy and am heading off on hols to Sandals Whitehouse next week, next trip planned is to Turks which I am really looking forward to.

1. I am actually in Canada now, I moved from the UK 7 years ago...thankfully!

2. I did look at St Lucia and had tons of e-mails and PM's from people telling me about the crime(especially break-ins on expats places)and that its best to stay in more or less a gaited community(which does not appeal to me)

3. Had NEVER even considered Turks until someone from St Lucia PM'd me about it.

Its nice to see people are so passionate about where they live(even part-time)what is good for one is not for another.

I always said I would retire to the Carib, just never knew where, I have visited Antigua and absolutely love it 6 times but no way in a million years would I consider living there, I also have been to Jamaica 3 times now but would not head there either....mainly on advice from locals!

The crime rate in Turks is what sways me most and of course the diving, I will know more when I visit so am not really qualified to say much about it hence my reason for posting, I will admit I am a little concerned about the lack of green, the only reason I looked into that is because I have horses and apparently there is not much or any grass for them!, but hey there is a riding school there so they must survive so if I do decide to bring my horses then we will learn how to cope.

Anyway thanks to both of you for your comments(and the pictures Les...much appreciated...we have 2ft of snow and its -25 this morning!), stop getting so riled, thought those that lived in the Carib were supposed to be more laid back

Take Care, Pam

onislandoutofmymind

Well, I have to give my opinion here.

Les seems to think that countries like the USA and UK are simply awful and paradise lies in places like the Turks and Caicos.

If your idea of living is moving to an island populated by locals whose hospitality makes you wonder if you should have moved to Afghanistan then this is the place for you.

If your idea of entertainment is spending every night in a vomit smelling pub called Danny Bhoys with other like minded, brainless expats getting wasted then this is the place for you.

If your idea of shopping is paying $8 for a loaf of bread and $20 for a bottle of wine that normally costs $8 anywhere else, this is the place for you.

If your idea of government is one that steals millions upon millions of dollars in real estate scams and whose premier rapes the guests at parties, this is the place for you.

If you love churches and want to donate your money to crooked preachers, this is the place for you.

If you enjoy nasty, dusty, bush landscape then this is the place for you.

If you like to gaze upon half built structures who have lost their funding due to total mis management then this is the place for you.

If you enjoy propaganda channels on the TV, comparing the Premier to Nelson Mandela and Churchill, then this is the place for you.

If you like conch and are willing to eat it very regularly for the rest of you life then this is the place for you.

If you don't care about human rights and what happens to the illegal aliens who arrive on their shores from Haiti (They sit starved and de-hydrating for days in the governments prisons), then this is the place for you.

There are so many things, but yes it is tax free. Brilliant. No taxes, no services, nothing to do. Except write to people and tell people you don't pay taxes. Fantastic. I go to the beach every day. Wow. How amazing.

Sue

I think you are missing the point. The reason this discussion forum exists is so that people can chat about these things and share experiences. If everyone went to PM what use would that be? Unless of course you are using BE for business purposes? In which case can I draw your attention to rule 9 of our site rules. Thanks

les666

[QUOTE=onislandoutofmymind;8291577]Well, I have to give my opinion
here.

yes as we all are entitled to our opinion so long as its not insulting, its objective and conforms to forum rules...

''Les seems to think that countries like the USA and UK are simply awful and paradise lies in places like the Turks and Caicos.''

find a quote that says that?? I have worked in the USA it has its good and bad points, as does the UK.. the largest downside to the UK is the LEVEL of tax we pay, both as individuals and as companies.. we know we as a country couldn't function how we do without some tax...its just the level and what that money (my money is spent, or more like wasted on), oh plus the weather which is pretty much grey and wet most of the year..



''If your idea of living is moving to an island populated by locals whose hospitality makes you wonder if you should have moved to Afghanistan then this is the place for you.''

Not sure where your from but I have found that in 'general' the locals are ok if you are polite.. the politicians were arrogant but they have had their day; my son has just returned from his second tour in Afghanistan and says in general the people there are fine, its like anywhere....often the minority shout the loudest..

''If your idea of entertainment is spending every night in a vomit smelling pub called Danny Bhoys with other like minded, brainless expats getting wasted then this is the place for you.''

Im not familiar with that place but I do know the bar called Danny 'Buoys', I think you mean this one....it has a mixed group of people like any bar, including a few expats and lots of foreign workers.. if you want a cheap bar then go there, bit like hooters in the states, but without the hoots...doesnt smell bad and is similar to my local bar....if you want a decent night out go to one of the many other bars like the beach bar at the 7 stars hotel...Or do like most expats and stay at home and have a few drinks with family and friends at weekends..

''If your idea of shopping is paying $8 for a loaf of bread and $20 for a bottle of wine that normally costs $8 anywhere else, this is the place for you.''

not sure where you shop?? price last week $4 bread and wine from $10 upwards good bottle of wine about $30

''If your idea of government is one that steals millions upon millions of dollars in real estate scams and whose premier rapes the guests at parties, this is the place for you.''

I dont know of one real estate scam, maybe you can advise?? do you mean ministers selling CROWN LAND??
the 'EX 'premier (or hadnt you heard he was an ex) was accused by a woman or rape and wanted money to keep quiet...but nothing was ever proved...however I have to agree with you he was a con artist, abused his power and probably did a whole lot more besides, I for one saw him smoking pot openly at an event....but thank goodness he is not in power any more, the British Govt got fed up with all the going ons and took control of the islands last year... after a failed attempt to stop an investigation into his financial affairs he moved away and is, as far as I know in Puerto Rico...his $15 million house has been taken off him and is being sold..charges are being considered on him and others..

''If you love churches and want to donate your money to crooked preachers, this is the place for you.''

I would be very careful what you say....there may be 'some' truth who knows, bit like saying all Catholic priests are paedophiles .. as far as I am aware they are VERY decent people doing gods work; and yes if you want to go somewhere to prey then you have a lot of choice...unless your Muslim... so what?? isnt it better that they love god and try to be good people...


''If you enjoy nasty, dusty, bush landscape then this is the place for you.''

not sure where you lived but we have lush lawns and palm trees around our property....the open areas are scrub, can't say I venture there unless its to go somewhere else...if you love rolling open green fields with woodland...dont bother with this island..

''If you like to gaze upon half built structures who have lost their funding due to total mis management then this is the place for you.''

yes thats partly true, Coral gardens went bust, however they have been taken over and from what I hear building work is due to start again..other failures are few and far between and certainly not like other countries who have been hit worse..remember its not just Provo that has been hit by the recession.. why not gauze at the many finished beautiful buildings instead..

''If you enjoy propaganda channels on the TV, comparing the Premier to Nelson Mandela and Churchill, then this is the place for you.''

no one takes this seriously and dont you have a remote?? pay the extra on cable and dont watch the local rubbish..

''If you like conch and are willing to eat it very regularly for the rest of you life then this is the place for you.''

I hate fish, especially conch which reminds me of a cows tongue...however meat and chicken fill the freezers at local shops and at reasonable prices.....I have never had problems eating out even at the sushi restaurant..but then my wife loves fish so once again it takes all sorts..

''If you don't care about human rights and what happens to the illegal aliens who arrive on their shores from Haiti (They sit starved and de-hydrating for days in the governments prisons), then this is the place for you.''

We could get into a long pointless row here...all I will say is the PEOPLE of the Turks need work, it is restricted by visa, for illegals to take jobs ie gardening and cleaning that could be done by locals makes them angry...the people of the TCI dont want illegals, they feel that maybe when illegals get shipped home with horror stories others will avoid going to the TCI because of how they are treated.. Im not saying its right or wrong, after all its 'their' country and even if I did care there is nothing I could do about it..

''There are so many things, but yes it is tax free. Brilliant. No taxes, no services, nothing to do. Except write to people and tell people you don't pay taxes. Fantastic. I go to the beach every day. Wow. How amazing''

important point....tax free ...so invest there, that would save me about $150,000 a year, when I die my family dont pay any tax and get everything I worked my life for....... maybe use the island like an extended holiday for a few months of the year and visit other places..
of course you could buy a boat, go horse riding, learn to sail, there are things to do if you look for them..

In the UK I tend to work, work, work oh and do more work... 20 minutes from the coast but dont get time to visit more than a couple of times a year..65% of everything we earn goes in tax, plus 17.5% tax on products bought, huge duty on fuel, road tax at $360 a year which isnt spent on roads, I could go on.... we feel like mice on a wheel and no matter how hard you work you seem to get nowhere..
it will be a luxury to have what you have but I wouldn't be bored as I would find something to do, even if it was to book a holiday somewhere green and lush..

The TCI offers just ONE lifestyle which will appeal to a certain type of person, its not the life that everyone wants... I know many retired and working expats who are very happy there and also some who do nothing but complain...a case of is the glass half full or half empty. But surely this is the world over?? you will never ever find the perfect place, you will have to compromise on something and the only way to know what you want is to visit as many places as possible, with luck you will find a place that is right for you, obviously the TCI is not right for you......at the moment the TCI offers us the best for our future, however if tax or infrastructure changes are made that affect us then maybe somewhere else would be better...if I had a crystal ball I wouldn't wonder if the TCI was perfect for us in a few years, but rather what are next weeks lottery numbers..