Hi all,

I have been in Canada for 5 years and glad to see many of you who love it. I wanted to share my experience with those who care to read. This is NOT exactly a motivational story but please hear me out before responding. Please also PM me if you want my advice.

Overall I have had a bit of a nightmare living in BC. Some of this is just down to life. But lots of it is to do with how life pans out here. I don't make any apologies for the fact my new ID sounds a little negative, because I wish to give a constructive opinion about my experiences which have largely been frustrating. This is not to knock Canada, but it will probably offend some who don't consider negatives to be helpful. Of course in reality they are just as helpful as positives, if not more so.

I want to touch briefly on areas which have been major issues for my family. I will follow up later with specific examples.

STANDARD OF LIVING
It is said that the standard of living in Canada is higher and the cost of it lower. In BC this is not the case at all. I have found it a constant struggle to make ends meet. I started rather well though, landing a reasonably well paid job which paid the bills. But maintaining the salary has been a struggle. Costs seem to have sky rocketed and now I simply cannot afford to work for what I'd get paid. With just the bills it would leave me with a deficit each month. I don't consider being poor to represent an increase to my standard of living. I've always had pick of the jobs, being an expert in my field. But making ends meet in BC is an absolute struggle. I would recommend anyone moving to BC to live WELL below your means. Give yourself a massive nest egg and minimize the amount you draw from it. I did this but with over a year of unemployment now I'm just about dry!

EMPLOYMENT
I have always been in high demand and started well here in BC. But I landed a job before I came out and that was obviously a wise move. Looking for work while here is an incredibly frustrating experience. Nobody seems to advertise salaries unless they're minimum wage (and many are). You get through multiple rounds of interviews before the subject even comes up. This is ridiculous. If I cannot afford to do the job for what you're paying, let's not waste each others' time, is my attitude.

In many fields employment comes down to your personal network. The jobs that are advertised are the worst ones. But building the network takes time. And the network can act against you as well. My first job was a nightmare from hell. Sweatshop with control freak nutters. Being laid off was a relief. But then I found my reputation was damaged irreparably and that spread throughout the networks. Vancouver is a tiny place and you quickly find your opportunities wiped out. But I have a family and mouths to feed. Nobody gives a crap about this.

Of the interviews I've had for new jobs, I find the behaviour of canadian employers deplorable. Every one will tell you that they'll only contact you if you've successfully made it through to the next stage. That's a disgrace. It's really no skin off their nose to send a templated rejection to all unsuccessful candidates. Just letting them assume months later that they've been rejected is appalling. In many cases where I experienced this, I was left feeling worthless. Yet I subsequently found out the company had gone out of business or they had advertised a post that had been withdrawn. I never ever applied for a position in UK and had this treatment. Canada has a ton of very sensible laws and regulations. They could really do with some lessons on treating people with respect when it comes to employment processes, with harsh penalties for companies who act in such a one-sided way.

DRIVING
Oh god this is my biggest bug bear of all. Oh christ where do I start. Firstly most people moving to BC will be somewhat disappointed that they have to do their driving test again. Anyone would think that driving in BC is particularly challenging or Canadians are excellent drivers. Unfortunately the contrary is true.

I have never lived in a place where I am so nervous out on the roads as in BC. Almost all drivers seem to be a bunch of incompetent, lawless morons, who have not an ounce of common sense between the lot of them. They have sensible driving regulations here but nobody complies with any of them. I was a confident driver before coming here, but I find myself constantly watching out for the jackass moves of other people. I generally drive 2 miles a day and normally have to take evasive action to avoid a major incident at least every day.

One of the most frustrating things about Vancouver driving is that the test is a cut down version of the British one. You don't get separately tested on manual and auto vehicles. Pass on an auto and you can drive a manual (assuming you manage to work out the pedals and gears). The test doesn't really test safety or technique. The fact that it should be very easy for any Brit to pass is not an excuse for mandating they should take the test. It's an insult quite frankly.

So what kind of mad antics can you expect? Well there's simply too many to list. But here's a basic compilation. Not stopping at STOP signs. Hogging the fast lane on the highway. Changing lanes without looking. Not being able to park in even the most generous spot. Not knowing how to drive a car in control in snow or ice. Running red lights. Mowing through pedestrians crossing at an official crossing. Taking ages to move off from a red light that has turned green. Not maintaining any lane control or discipline. Parking badly so as to hog 2 spaces in car parks. Not keeping car in safe and serviceable condition. Not being aware of basic operation of car (e.g. demist). Not knowing what the main and dipped beam do. Not knowing that cars use oil. Using cellphones while driving (thank god they're planning to be hammering down on this). Excessive amounts of road rage. Indicating one way and turning another. Use of horn during quite hours. Impacting other cars and leaving the scene. Accelerating to stop cars join on a slip road on the highway. I'm sure I've missed many many.

Driver mentality is a big issue in Vancouver. And it's one that I find consistent across the board, not just one or two isolated incidents. Drivers consider their problems to be everyones. So if a driver finds themselves in the wrong lane they'll just start drifting into the lane they need to be in, and the car already there will have to avoid them. Thus making the fact they're in the wrong lane your problem and not theirs. Not sure if this is down to a spoiled brat upbringing. Conversely when I go back to the UK or USA I find road courtesy oustandingly better than in BC.

SHOPPING
I like to research and shop around before making big purchases of things like consumer electronics or motor vehicles. But Canadians just can't seem to get their head around this. There just doesn't seem to be any sense of price matching. Sure I'd love to go into a store and be able to afford to just say "hey you, I'm looking for a tv that does this or that" and get an honest recommendation. But I'll want to make sure that the price is fair and that the model actually does fit my needs, not just because the store gets more commission on this brand, or it's old stock they need to shift.

I find being a man is particularly frustrating. A canadian friend recently went into best buy to get a desktop computer. I joined him. The one he wanted was out of stock so they offered him the floor demo model. I recommended that he didn't take it but he ignored my advice. They didn't give him any discount and when he got it home he found that some of the parts were missing. He didn't think to ask for a discount or shop around. It seems when people take things back the store just sellotapes the package together and then puts it back on the shelf. Some poor mug ends up picking it up not knowing that it's incomplete or used.

I bought a laptop a few years back. The store tried to offer me an open box for 10% discount. I told them no way. So they went off and got me a 'new' laptop. When they handed it over to me I discovered the box was open. I asked whether it was new and they said yes they had just opened it. Giving them benefit of the doubt I took it home. Only to discover it was a used one and some other jackass had registered and used it for weeks. The free trials were expired and unbelievably the battery was missing. When I sought compensation for having to drive an hour to be lied to I was offered none.

I bought a sofa from sears to go in my new home shortly after arriving. During the 13th month I noticed to my horror a bloody great split down the leather. I assumed that one of my family or a guest had caused this. But shortly after more and more splits appeared. I contacted sears and they told me this vastly expensive leather sofa only had a 1 year warranty. i told them this is unacceptable and that it wasn't merchantable. But they just keep going on and on about the ridiculous 1 year warranty. My sofa now has a crappy throw over the leather that looks like I've run a lawn mower over it. My only choice is to take Sears to court. But I'm also finding that Canada seems to have ZERO consumer protection laws. Many people have told me that yes the 1 year warranty is all I'll get. I also found the so-called leather is just glued garbage. Unbelievably Canada doesn't require companies to describe their products accurately. This is bi-cast but at no point was that mentioned.

When I went to buy a car, I found this a particularly frustrating experience. I like to browse the models available and try and test drive a few, go away and perhaps try some other dealers and may be make a decision or go back for a second round with the models I like. I spotted a nice jeep at a Lexus dealership and asked about a test drive. It drove nicely but was a bit pricey and mileage wasn't exactly low. However when I tried to look at alternatives the guy just started a heavy sales patter. He was adamant I was buying that car. I was adamant that no matter how much I needed one I was NOT buying one from him and to that end that dealership. They DO NOT allow people to browse or go away. They'd rather lose the deal than allow that. In Britain no dealership survives like that. People are shrewd enough to shop around and perhaps test drive a few cars. In Canada this just doesn't seem to be the case.

TAXES
Ok nobody is going to say much positive about this. Canada is a country of excessively high taxation. This in part contributes to the struggle of living hear. There seems to be no end of luny taxes in BC. My tax return looks like the technical data from the Space Shuttle. It's just overbearingly complex. Try and book a flight from Vancouver and your $59 flight will probably end up costing double or treble. As a consequence Canada rarely gets my business and I can take my family via Seattle. Cost savings more than compensate me for my time, the 2x 1-way rentals. And Seattle has far more choice of flights to non-canadian destinations. Why Canada has such high taxation I just don't know. If the country was wealthy I could understand it. But in fact Canada is one of the poorest countries I've ever visited. There's an incredible amount of poverty and people living terrible lives. It seems to be almost proud of this. And of course having been out of work a year I'm also now falling into destitution. It's a terrible terrible dilemma.

EXPATS
Right this is going to be controversial, but I'm not here to please everyone. One thing that sickens me is how incredibly biased some expats are. There's one forum I simply cannot return to because they infuriate me so much. I make constructive points about Canadian living and all I hear is BS about how wonderful canada is and how terrible Britain is. I make a really constructive point about something to help others and I get told to piss off home! There's a huge number of British people living in Canada who perhaps just haven't experienced some of the bad aspects to it like I have. I have a personal mission in setting the record straight, in part because it was mugs like me that listened to some of the hype from such people and ended up nearly ruining my life here.

COMMUNITY
I've found Canadians to not be the most friendly bunch to be honest. It seems that people are quite comfortable living next door to each other in nice homes without ever chatting or even acknowledging their neighbour. This is incredible. I can imagine it if you lived in a high violence area or high density accommodation. But I'm talking about an area with lots of families but 'middle class' if you'll excuse the term. This is a shame because once you get people talking they seem ok but they're not natural conversationalists. Just a shame that people are content living like recluses. They finish their work and lock themselves away.

LOYALTY
Despite all I say above, which is mostly negative, there's something about this god damned place that keeps me here. No I don't wear a house arrest footlace in case anyone asks. Perhaps it's just that I realize that no place is perfect. Moving my entire family back to UK is possible but it doesn't guarantee to solve all problems. I constantly remind myself about the negatives in living in Britain, just as I recognize those here. I'm about to qualify for citizenship and now cannot imagine not at least getting that under my belt. That will at least give my kids some choices in the future if we did decide it's right to move away. I also constantly try and remind myself of some of the reasons I moved here. Not all have been met but some have and they are significant. I love the beautiful landscape and climate. Don't mind the rain too much as that makes snow and I've had such fun here. No European style line ups. No stupid resorts with idiot tourists. Just serious skiiers and some of the best slopes in the world.

CONCLUSION
I just want people to be open minded to moving here in the same way I'd be if I moved to a different country. There's plenty of people who love it and I'm not disputing this as a loveable country. It isn't for me and it may not be for you. But it is for some.

Thanks

There is an operation for this now you know.

The infrastructure has to be paid for by fewer people than more densely populated nations.

You are not chained to the place though are you! We are each responsible for our own decisions, cannot blame others for your own misfortune.

Can't comment on the rest of your experiences, but I have to disagree with this. Negative comments abound on the forum about Canada, there are plenty that agree. Your post is a case in point.

If you sat someone down with the entire contents of this forum to read its entire contents, that knew nothing about Canada, there is pretty much zero chance they would go on holiday there, never mind emigrate.

A UK flight is no different - check out the tax/actual cost ratio on a flight from Manchester to Toronto for example. If you live close to the US border, as you have said, you can get around it.


From Canadian Affair:
FLIGHT PRICE 1 GBP 63.00 GBP 63.00
AIRPORT TAX & SURCHARGES 1 GBP 195.00 GBP 195.00

Price: £258

Flight if booked from Canadian end:

FLIGHT PRICE 1 CAD 199.00 CAD 199.00
AIRPORT TAX & SURCHARGES 1 CAD 400.00 CAD 400.00

Price: 599 CAD.

Thanks for your report. After reading several threads on British Expats, I came to the conclusion that BC and Vancouver in particular isn't an affordable place to live, unless you have a huge salary. And it doesn't sound that the average wage is high enough there to justify the mega property prices.

But your decision making seems to focus on the negatives of Vancouver and the UK. Why not consider the positives of where you want to live too?

Would you enjoy Canada more if you lived in a more affordable area?

Depends where in Vancouver you go as well as in BC, there is a wide diversity in property prices. Living in one of the most desirable places comes with a price I guess.

Vancouver is pricey and it is tough to get by on an average wage. We are also in a recession or just coming out of one, who ever you believe. House prices have spoiled the place as far as i;m concerned.

Driving - agree with that - if you think you have it bad, try driving an emergency vehicle.

As far as shopping, now it sounds like you are just down on yourself and its coming out in your post.

Tax - yep high - same as the UK from what I can tell. We are also going to have an legacy of higher taxes post Olympics. At least you can see where it is being spent though, lots of infrastructure and transit improvements.

Friends - I've not had a problem, although I think it depends where you are. Asians tend to keep themselves to themselves for instance.

Too bad about the work situation. I have Canadian friends struggling too. Vancouver has never been an hot bed of industry and most jobs are service based. I don't blame you for being down on the place - I would be too.

True, but prices are over inflated here and are not inline with earnings. Also we have not had a correction which makes things look even worse.

Not really noticed as we have not moved too much since we first arrived. Prices only go up because people are willing to pay for it though. They really started to move with the exodus from Hong Kong, before that some real bargains to be had.

Its the last 5 years or so that has seen sanity leave the market and is more to do with cheap money and irresponsible lending and approvals.

I suspect that Vancouver is quickly becoming a resort dominated town, where wealthy retirees and foreigners are buying up real estate. Given the low wages here, I can think of no other logical reason, and don't buy the drug money argument.

It was much, much more affordable here in 1993, in fact not that much more expensive than Manchester.

As much as I love Vancouver, I do fear that it is slipping out of the reach of many. Those deciding to move here should be under no illusion that real estate is costly and wages are low. Cost of living is the highest in North America with amongst the most unaffordable housing in the world.

Hi Sparkling Gal,

Actually there are positives which is why I'm still here. My frustration is that it's so much more difficult to put those into words. I'm presently looking into more affordable parts of Vancouver, around the tri-cities for example.

Bloody hell you're kidding. Is this right? I mean I knew it was expensive but is it really higher than places like New York or LA? Well that would explain my bank balance a bit.

It's not just the prices, it's what people earn relative to house prices. London and New York have higher prices, but wages are also higher. Plus lets not forget that the US and UK have had steep price corrections, Canada has not.

That's when lots of people lost everything, house prices crashed and banks went tits up you mean? Whereas the Canadian economy remained reasonably stable by comparison.

Hi - I know what you mean. When you feel down about things, it can be hard to think about the positives.

Is the tri-cities around Coquitlam, Burnaby etc? I noticed the prices are a bit more reasonable there. Are you looking to buy or rent? We plan to rent for a good while when we go over and they seem to have some decent properties on Kijiji and Craigslist.

I think BC looks lovely and it's good that you're planning to stick it out. My OH is going to be a student when we first land, so I would worry that we wouldn't be able to afford to live there. We'll definitely visit the area for holidays though.