Youth/care work with children in Alberta
Jan 16th 2014, 9:16 pm
#31
Banned
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 19,879
Re: Youth/care work with children in Alberta
Beckie what you have to understand (and I didn't until I moved here) is that in Canada the right credentials really matter - if it's not Canadian then you basically have to start all over again for most things (not all but most). On top of that, you will encounter issues like "no Canadian experience" which basically means they won't hire you until you get experience ... and usually means taking a survival job on minimum wage - which is tough. The social services field in particular is very hard (I think) to break into unless you are doing personal support worker work - and even then you need a PSW qualification (that stands for Personal Support Worker).
One of the lovely things about Canada is that there is a lot of volunteering ... one of the downsides of that is that (I think) much work that should be done by paid employees is done through volunteering.
As well, it really matters here who you know - if you're not known to the people within the organisation it can be really really tough to get work.
The big difference I would also say is that while English employers will look at your skills and see the potential you have to offer to the post on offer, Canadian employers want to see that you have the exact skills and experience for the post on offer - they don't have as much of a training culture here ... so if you don't fit exactly into the tight little box that they have in mind in terms of the skills and experience required to do the work (as well as the right credentials) then it can be really really tough.
I hate to sound so negative but my experience in Ontario has been really difficult. I completed my third degree (I have 2 from UK) last year - got a Bachelor of Social Work with distinction. I cannot for the life of me get a job at the moment - and the work that is on offer is mostly poorly paid contract/casual/temporary work. And a lot of the jobs are asking for a Masters in Social Work which I cannot afford to take and have no desire to take. Yesterday I went for a job interview and all the questions were framed around an expectation that I would have all the experience already to do the job - and as well they were worded in such a way that it was clear that they already have somebody in mind for the job - but they have to advertise and interview to show due process in terms of the way the job procedure has been done ... it was most disheartening.
So I'm sure you're NVQ and you're experience are worth something but if you come to Canada don't expect employers here to value it ..
One of the lovely things about Canada is that there is a lot of volunteering ... one of the downsides of that is that (I think) much work that should be done by paid employees is done through volunteering.
As well, it really matters here who you know - if you're not known to the people within the organisation it can be really really tough to get work.
The big difference I would also say is that while English employers will look at your skills and see the potential you have to offer to the post on offer, Canadian employers want to see that you have the exact skills and experience for the post on offer - they don't have as much of a training culture here ... so if you don't fit exactly into the tight little box that they have in mind in terms of the skills and experience required to do the work (as well as the right credentials) then it can be really really tough.
I hate to sound so negative but my experience in Ontario has been really difficult. I completed my third degree (I have 2 from UK) last year - got a Bachelor of Social Work with distinction. I cannot for the life of me get a job at the moment - and the work that is on offer is mostly poorly paid contract/casual/temporary work. And a lot of the jobs are asking for a Masters in Social Work which I cannot afford to take and have no desire to take. Yesterday I went for a job interview and all the questions were framed around an expectation that I would have all the experience already to do the job - and as well they were worded in such a way that it was clear that they already have somebody in mind for the job - but they have to advertise and interview to show due process in terms of the way the job procedure has been done ... it was most disheartening.
So I'm sure you're NVQ and you're experience are worth something but if you come to Canada don't expect employers here to value it ..
I think this applies to the majority of positions, not just Social Services. Despite having more than 20 years experience as an Administrator (I used to have complete management over an office block) I have been applying for any and every job that I am capable of doing - for over 2 years - to no avail. It's the most frustrating experience of my life. I could do 90% of the jobs with one hand tied behind my back and a blindfold on, but because I don't 'fit' their expectations for a candidate I can't even get an interview. They expect qualifications, certification, recent educational upgrading and experience in the Canadian workplace (unless you have recently graduated from college), without that they mostly won't even bother reading your resume, let alone consider you for the position.
Unless your career choice is in a 'sought after' field, you don't stand a lot of chance of getting a good job. If you are in a sought after field, then you stand a good chance of at least being interviewed.
Networking is everything here, it's who you know and not necessarily what you know!
Last edited by Siouxie; Jan 16th 2014 at 9:21 pm.
Jan 16th 2014, 9:28 pm
#32
Bex in the city
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,899
Re: Youth/care work with children in Alberta
Beckie what you have to understand (and I didn't until I moved here) is that in Canada the right credentials really matter - if it's not Canadian then you basically have to start all over again for most things (not all but most). On top of that, you will encounter issues like "no Canadian experience" which basically means they won't hire you until you get experience ... and usually means taking a survival job on minimum wage - which is tough. The social services field in particular is very hard (I think) to break into unless you are doing personal support worker work - and even then you need a PSW qualification (that stands for Personal Support Worker).
One of the lovely things about Canada is that there is a lot of volunteering ... one of the downsides of that is that (I think) much work that should be done by paid employees is done through volunteering.
As well, it really matters here who you know - if you're not known to the people within the organisation it can be really really tough to get work.
The big difference I would also say is that while English employers will look at your skills and see the potential you have to offer to the post on offer, Canadian employers want to see that you have the exact skills and experience for the post on offer - they don't have as much of a training culture here ... so if you don't fit exactly into the tight little box that they have in mind in terms of the skills and experience required to do the work (as well as the right credentials) then it can be really really tough.
I hate to sound so negative but my experience in Ontario has been really difficult. I completed my third degree (I have 2 from UK) last year - got a Bachelor of Social Work with distinction. I cannot for the life of me get a job at the moment - and the work that is on offer is mostly poorly paid contract/casual/temporary work. And a lot of the jobs are asking for a Masters in Social Work which I cannot afford to take and have no desire to take. Yesterday I went for a job interview and all the questions were framed around an expectation that I would have all the experience already to do the job - and as well they were worded in such a way that it was clear that they already have somebody in mind for the job - but they have to advertise and interview to show due process in terms of the way the job procedure has been done ... it was most disheartening.
So I'm sure you're NVQ and you're experience are worth something but if you come to Canada don't expect employers here to value it ..
One of the lovely things about Canada is that there is a lot of volunteering ... one of the downsides of that is that (I think) much work that should be done by paid employees is done through volunteering.
As well, it really matters here who you know - if you're not known to the people within the organisation it can be really really tough to get work.
The big difference I would also say is that while English employers will look at your skills and see the potential you have to offer to the post on offer, Canadian employers want to see that you have the exact skills and experience for the post on offer - they don't have as much of a training culture here ... so if you don't fit exactly into the tight little box that they have in mind in terms of the skills and experience required to do the work (as well as the right credentials) then it can be really really tough.
I hate to sound so negative but my experience in Ontario has been really difficult. I completed my third degree (I have 2 from UK) last year - got a Bachelor of Social Work with distinction. I cannot for the life of me get a job at the moment - and the work that is on offer is mostly poorly paid contract/casual/temporary work. And a lot of the jobs are asking for a Masters in Social Work which I cannot afford to take and have no desire to take. Yesterday I went for a job interview and all the questions were framed around an expectation that I would have all the experience already to do the job - and as well they were worded in such a way that it was clear that they already have somebody in mind for the job - but they have to advertise and interview to show due process in terms of the way the job procedure has been done ... it was most disheartening.
So I'm sure you're NVQ and you're experience are worth something but if you come to Canada don't expect employers here to value it ..
I think when I started this thread I was naive as I thought id be ok as I have experience and (hopefully) good references but since reading about the struggles social workers have had (even those that have been educated in Canada) and teachers have had it's a massive eye opener.
As you have said with all your qualifications and still it's still a struggle for yourself to get a job.
Even if I can't get paid work doing this, I feel voluntary work will be good as it will keep me doing something which is similar to what I have been doing here, even if it is just mentoring, outreach work etc. at least if I do end up coming back to the UK, it doesn't look like I have been on a jolly for 1-2 years.
I though about contacting a recruitment agency that do with social care for them to look at what I have and just give me a firm yes or no so at least I can scrap this idea if it's a negative response
I also thought about contacting one of the organisations for an informal chat about their company/organisation and charity that do care work/youth work as I have read they like face to face interactions and maybe they may be able to point me in the direction of something else?
Jan 17th 2014, 8:54 am
#33
Purpe80 in another life..
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 665
Re: Youth/care work with children in Alberta
Thanks for the post. I appreciate your honesty and the fact you have been through this as well.
I think when I started this thread I was naive as I thought id be ok as I have experience and (hopefully) good references but since reading about the struggles social workers have had (even those that have been educated in Canada) and teachers have had it's a massive eye opener.
As you have said with all your qualifications and still it's still a struggle for yourself to get a job.
Even if I can't get paid work doing this, I feel voluntary work will be good as it will keep me doing something which is similar to what I have been doing here, even if it is just mentoring, outreach work etc. at least if I do end up coming back to the UK, it doesn't look like I have been on a jolly for 1-2 years.
I though about contacting a recruitment agency that do with social care for them to look at what I have and just give me a firm yes or no so at least I can scrap this idea if it's a negative response
I also thought about contacting one of the organisations for an informal chat about their company/organisation and charity that do care work/youth work as I have read they like face to face interactions and maybe they may be able to point me in the direction of something else?
I think when I started this thread I was naive as I thought id be ok as I have experience and (hopefully) good references but since reading about the struggles social workers have had (even those that have been educated in Canada) and teachers have had it's a massive eye opener.
As you have said with all your qualifications and still it's still a struggle for yourself to get a job.
Even if I can't get paid work doing this, I feel voluntary work will be good as it will keep me doing something which is similar to what I have been doing here, even if it is just mentoring, outreach work etc. at least if I do end up coming back to the UK, it doesn't look like I have been on a jolly for 1-2 years.
I though about contacting a recruitment agency that do with social care for them to look at what I have and just give me a firm yes or no so at least I can scrap this idea if it's a negative response
I also thought about contacting one of the organisations for an informal chat about their company/organisation and charity that do care work/youth work as I have read they like face to face interactions and maybe they may be able to point me in the direction of something else?
All the best and make sure you update us as it really is important for others hoping to do the same.
Jan 17th 2014, 2:49 pm
#34
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 203
Re: Youth/care work with children in Alberta
Beckie I'm glad you appreciated my honesty - I'm not naturally a negative person but it has been such a struggle here. I thought getting a Canadian degree would help ... but it hasn't. The problem is a lack of training culture here - employers want what they want and they don't want to "grow" people like UK employers do - I think it can best be summed up by saying that UK employers see potential whereas Canadian employers see credentials.
If you come over to do volunteer work then you will certainly get lots of opportunities - I really grew as a person from this and have done things I never would (I think) have done in the UK .. but you'll have to figure out a way to support yourself financially. And living on minimum wage is very tough - the CBC The Current program did an episode this week on minimum wage - I highly recommend you listen to it: http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode...mum-wage-wars/
I know the UK has problems but while rents are cheaper here in some parts of the country its still very very tough living on minimum wage and public transit (unless you are living somewhere like Toronto) is not as good as the UK - so you really need a car to get around effectively. The other big thing here which was an eye opener for me is the medical system - it's awful. My parents go on about the NHS failings but in Canada just getting a GP is really difficult - lots of people don't have one and go to walk-in clinics. GP's aren't salaried so even if you do get one, you're lucky to have more than a few minutes with them as they earn money by the volume of people they see. The GP I've got is very medication oriented and has been completely unhelpful with my medical problems - in fact I think a lot of GPs here are very paternalistic because they have a captive audience - you can't just change your doctor and get another one like you can in the UK. Only 60% of medical costs are covered by Medicare (which is kind of like the Canadian equivalent of the NHS) but Medicare coverage varies from province to province - so some provinces don't cover stuff that others do. The remaining 40% is supposed to be covered by either employer related health plans or private health plans. Private health plans are very expensive. And many of the "survival" jobs as well as recent grad jobs don't have employer related health plans - so if you want health care for things not covered it's expensive. There is no private medical care system in Canada and whatever your views on that in practical terms it means that if you need something done and there is a long wait ... then there's a long wait unless you go to another country and pay an astronomical sum for treatment. Lots of things the NHS offers for free are unavailable - for example, physiotherapy is not free in Ontario - you have to pay privately for it.
Canada has some lovely things about it but it's not an easy place to live for an immigrant unless you have a professional qualification and a job arranged before you move here (which my ex - an engineer) did. If you do, then you can buy a larger house in the UK and, I guess, depending on the area you live, you may make good connections with the community. I've struggled where I live but the community I live in is known for it's insularity - and it's hard living as an outsider in another culture. The one thing I have developed from all this is a huge amount of compassion for immigrants ... when I lived in the UK I had no idea what people went through and the UK is, sadly, very anti-immigrant.
If you come over to do volunteer work then you will certainly get lots of opportunities - I really grew as a person from this and have done things I never would (I think) have done in the UK .. but you'll have to figure out a way to support yourself financially. And living on minimum wage is very tough - the CBC The Current program did an episode this week on minimum wage - I highly recommend you listen to it: http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode...mum-wage-wars/
I know the UK has problems but while rents are cheaper here in some parts of the country its still very very tough living on minimum wage and public transit (unless you are living somewhere like Toronto) is not as good as the UK - so you really need a car to get around effectively. The other big thing here which was an eye opener for me is the medical system - it's awful. My parents go on about the NHS failings but in Canada just getting a GP is really difficult - lots of people don't have one and go to walk-in clinics. GP's aren't salaried so even if you do get one, you're lucky to have more than a few minutes with them as they earn money by the volume of people they see. The GP I've got is very medication oriented and has been completely unhelpful with my medical problems - in fact I think a lot of GPs here are very paternalistic because they have a captive audience - you can't just change your doctor and get another one like you can in the UK. Only 60% of medical costs are covered by Medicare (which is kind of like the Canadian equivalent of the NHS) but Medicare coverage varies from province to province - so some provinces don't cover stuff that others do. The remaining 40% is supposed to be covered by either employer related health plans or private health plans. Private health plans are very expensive. And many of the "survival" jobs as well as recent grad jobs don't have employer related health plans - so if you want health care for things not covered it's expensive. There is no private medical care system in Canada and whatever your views on that in practical terms it means that if you need something done and there is a long wait ... then there's a long wait unless you go to another country and pay an astronomical sum for treatment. Lots of things the NHS offers for free are unavailable - for example, physiotherapy is not free in Ontario - you have to pay privately for it.
Canada has some lovely things about it but it's not an easy place to live for an immigrant unless you have a professional qualification and a job arranged before you move here (which my ex - an engineer) did. If you do, then you can buy a larger house in the UK and, I guess, depending on the area you live, you may make good connections with the community. I've struggled where I live but the community I live in is known for it's insularity - and it's hard living as an outsider in another culture. The one thing I have developed from all this is a huge amount of compassion for immigrants ... when I lived in the UK I had no idea what people went through and the UK is, sadly, very anti-immigrant.
Jan 17th 2014, 3:33 pm
#35
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Youth/care work with children in Alberta
Still, I think it would be fairer to say that it's different. It's not as good as the NHS in that the treatments a patient can choose here are limited by the amount of money the patient has and in that physical accessiblity is limited here by geography and, again, funding (it's no good knowing there's a doctor who deals with stomachs in Toronto if your ulcer is in Timmins and you've no car).
Overall though, people in Canada do get treated for most things and the quality of care in urban Canada is likely very similar to that in the UK. After all, the same "developing world" schools trained the doctors for both countries.
Jan 17th 2014, 8:52 pm
#36
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,746
Re: Youth/care work with children in Alberta
I giggled at this.
Still, I think it would be fairer to say that it's different. It's not as good as the NHS in that the treatments a patient can choose here are limited by the amount of money the patient has and in that physical accessiblity is limited here by geography and, again, funding (it's no good knowing there's a doctor who deals with stomachs in Toronto if your ulcer is in Timmins and you've no car).
Overall though, people in Canada do get treated for most things and the quality of care in urban Canada is likely very similar to that in the UK. After all, the same "developing world" schools trained the doctors for both countries.
Still, I think it would be fairer to say that it's different. It's not as good as the NHS in that the treatments a patient can choose here are limited by the amount of money the patient has and in that physical accessiblity is limited here by geography and, again, funding (it's no good knowing there's a doctor who deals with stomachs in Toronto if your ulcer is in Timmins and you've no car).
Overall though, people in Canada do get treated for most things and the quality of care in urban Canada is likely very similar to that in the UK. After all, the same "developing world" schools trained the doctors for both countries.
I had one bad experience with one doctor and swapped doctors and my new doctor has been great. Very thorough and never rushes. I've had a couple of issues and he has really looked into them rather than just handing out pills. I rate the healthcare over here. Then again we have very good insurance but the stuff I have been treated for has come under free stuff anyway.
I have friends who have not had such good experiences and in Alberta I know there is a shortage of doctors.
Jan 17th 2014, 10:13 pm
#37
Bex in the city
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,899
Jan 17th 2014, 10:20 pm
#38
Bex in the city
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,899
Re: Youth/care work with children in Alberta
Beckie I'm glad you appreciated my honesty - I'm not naturally a negative person but it has been such a struggle here. I thought getting a Canadian degree would help ... but it hasn't. The problem is a lack of training culture here - employers want what they want and they don't want to "grow" people like UK employers do - I think it can best be summed up by saying that UK employers see potential whereas Canadian employers see credentials.
If you come over to do volunteer work then you will certainly get lots of opportunities - I really grew as a person from this and have done things I never would (I think) have done in the UK .. but you'll have to figure out a way to support yourself financially. And living on minimum wage is very tough - the CBC The Current program did an episode this week on minimum wage - I highly recommend you listen to it: http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode...mum-wage-wars/
Canada has some lovely things about it but it's not an easy place to live for an immigrant unless you have a professional qualification and a job arranged before you move here
If you come over to do volunteer work then you will certainly get lots of opportunities - I really grew as a person from this and have done things I never would (I think) have done in the UK .. but you'll have to figure out a way to support yourself financially. And living on minimum wage is very tough - the CBC The Current program did an episode this week on minimum wage - I highly recommend you listen to it: http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode...mum-wage-wars/
Canada has some lovely things about it but it's not an easy place to live for an immigrant unless you have a professional qualification and a job arranged before you move here
I have noticed that a few on IEC visas in non-professional qualified positions (servers, retail assistants etc) have managed to work and stay out there so even if it is minimum wage there must be something about Canada keeping them there if it isn't the money.
Jan 17th 2014, 11:22 pm
#39
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 1,371
Re: Youth/care work with children in Alberta
It's often the outdoor-oriented lifestyle (skiing, snowboarding, kayaking, hiking, rock climbing, fishing, etc.) that they stay for, based on my experiences and observations, at least in BC. If you're not seeking a similar lifestyle, or if you're trying to replicate a UK lifestyle, Canada will likely pose more of a challenge. Again, this is specific to BC. I imagine Toronto and Montreal would be entirely different.
