Almost Canadian

I don't know if this post was aimed at me but, if it was, I take no moral position. If people want others to raise their children for them so that they can go to work, they are entitled to do so and that is their decision.

I accept that demand for childcare outstrips supply. But one could say that about a whole host of services. The question is: Should the State or the individual parents pay for it? As Iaink argues above, the State is already providing parents with tax relief, how much more do you want your neighbours to pay for your childcare?

Almost Canadian

The point I am trying to make, very inarticulately it would appear, it that one doesn't have to keep up with the Joneses.

ExKiwilass

It's pretty easy for people to child-mind, at least here. As long as you stay under a certain number of kids you don't need a license in BC. You can charge cash and the whole thing can be under the table without the government knowing at all.

The problem is quality. It's one thing for a company to sell, say, a faulty garment. It's another if the carer is abusive. It can be very, very hard as a parent to find out how good a childcare really is. Would you agree real competition also requires plenty of information about the product? Would you also agree that most parents wouldn't want to have to find out the hard way that their carer sucked ass?

The other issue is the disconnect between what people can afford to pay and how much money it would take to attract businesses and workers to the industry. I just don't think the free market works well when it comes to childcare.

ExKiwilass

There's plenty of things that I, as a taxpayer, have paid for and continue to pay for that I derive no use out of. BC Place, for instance. Ferry service to the far North. Subsidizing private schools. I'm totally ok with asking everyone to contribute for childcare. It's part of living in a society.

iaink

Whats that got to do with childcare? Childcare provision is necessary for two parents to go out and work in order to bring home an average household income that will allow them to keep a roof over their head and shoes on their kids feet. No one is talking about have a side by side ATV for them as well. Income related subsidies would make that less of a thorny issue anyway, like CCTB works now.

Perhaps those taxpayers who begrudge subsidising childcare for their neighbours children would happily forgo receiving their state pension that those kids will eventually be paying up for them

Almost Canadian

That wasn't the question asked as society is already contributing.

You want them to contribute more. My question is: How much more?

ExKiwilass

dunno, havne't run the numbers. I quite like my MSP idea though - of charging based on income.

Almost Canadian

I don't believe that it is. I appreciate that this is somewhat anecdotal, but our family did not have to and I know lots of others that did not too.

I know of many couples without kids that say they don't have enough money to live. My view is that one cuts one's cloth appropriately

I haven't said I begrude anything. What I have asked that people set out how much more they want others to contribute to their own childcare. It seems a straightforward question.

We raised 3 children of our own without requiring daycare. I appreciate that others choose not to do so. I make no moral argument one way or the other. As I have said above, it is each to their own.

Siouxie

Ontario is phasing in kindergarten for 4-5 year olds, which no doubt saves a great deal of money for some parents. Some schools offer before and after school programs too - my son's girlfriend works 7-9 and 3-6 as an ECE (fully qualified) so it is available. As to ECE wages, around here it varies between $13-$20 an hour.

http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/kindergarten/

When my son was in school in the UK at the age of 5 (I was a lone parent at the time), I was earning the princely sum of $114 per week before tax - to have him collected from school and looked after for two and a half hours a day cost me £30 a week - more than a third of my take home pay. I discovered that by working 9.15-3.00 and taking a cut in wages I could get family income supplement, so I cut my hours and even though my pay was lower and the FIS didn't add up to a great deal, we were better off - and I had a happier son.

You do what you have to do...

ExKiwilass

I wish all schools had before and after school programs.

iaink

You said "how much more do you want your neighbours to pay for your childcare"

I was arguing that in our society it is fair enough to share the burden of childcare expenses among everyone because everyone will benefit from that emergent generations paying into the system to provide healthcare and pensions into our old age.

Siouxie

There are alternatives - and if you qualify there is financial help available.

http://www.mcf.gov.bc.ca/childcare/subsidy_promo.htm

You might find this tool on the website useful to find licenced carers: http://www.mcf.gov.bc.ca/childcare/programs_map.htm

http://www.vanymca.org/childcare/schoolage.html

http://www.icschoolvancouver.com/par...r-school-care/

http://www.jccgv.com/content/daycare-preschool-asc

http://www.kidsclubs.ca/north-vancou...r-school-cares

http://www.madscience.org/locations/...terschool.aspx

Alan2005

If the problem is excessive demand the only way to control costs is to encourage supply. Tax breaks will only push prices up.

iaink

Would it not then be a case of financial blackmail to leave your kids there in a free program with a carer you had no input into selecting, rather than finding someone you are comfortable with and trust but have to pay?

My problem with government provided care is the nature of things is that government spending is always under the microscope and wages for carers will be kept low for political reasons, leading to issues attracting and retaining good people.

Id rather they just empower parents to find the carers that it right for their child.

ExKiwilass

I don't know what it's like where you are but finding quality childcare is really hard where I am. I am lucky to have a good carer whose kids go to the same school so she does pick up. Other parents are interested in sending their kids to her, but she doesn't want to take anymore than mine (she already has 3 of her own children). Outside of the health inspections Fraser Health does, there is no way of knowing what kind of care your kid is getting. There is no website to track it. And many carers are unlicensed, so you're relying on word of mouth/gut feeling/prayer that it's all ok. I take your point but at least with an in-school programme there would be some oversight and presumably the carers would need to be qualified, pass reference checks etc.