What to expect from the NHS !
 

What you can expect from the NHS...

Two patients limp into different health care centres with the same complaint.
Both have trouble walking and appear to require a hip replacement.

The first patient is examined within the hour, is x-rayed the same day then gets booked for surgery the following week.

The second sees the family doctor after waiting a week for an appointment, then waits eighteen weeks to see a specialist, then gets an x-ray, which isn't reviewed for another month and finally has his surgery scheduled for a year from then.

Why the different treatment for the two patients?


The first one is Golden Retriever,
the second is a Senior Citizen :mad:

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

That could just as easily be anywhere in Canada.

Although Alberta has made some very significant improvements in hip replacement surgeries of late.

That being said I have absolutely no room to complain about any of my heart related visits to emergency in Calgary over the last ten years. The service I have received has always been exemplary.

Cheers
Steve

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

Coz one is Completely Private and the other isn't.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

I was just waiting of someone saying the NHS is "Free" {aye, if you're an asylum seeker, it is} but not for folks who have worked 40-50 years, worked themselves down to the {hip} bone, then like that poor sod last night {on TV} die in agony from MRSA, after 50 years of NHS contributions.

I wonder what treatment folks would get Privately if they'd paid their money into {say} BUPA for the last 50 years, rather than the NHS ?

I know this aint "scientific" it isn't meant to be, just reflecting sardonically on the situation...

Be nice to be treated better than a dog though hey...

Canada Bob.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

So for 50 years paying in, the guy never every used the NHS or got any Benefits. NHS is paid for out of NI contributions right. So just like BUPA theres no yearly refund but unlike bupa once you reach retirement and you have paid your contributions you don't have to keep paying the high costs.


If you had paid in to BUPA for 50 years you'd get what you paid for this year not what you paid in for 50 years. Differences is it would be a darn sight more than NI contributions.

It is unfortunate that someone had to suffer but on the same hand would we pay for enough doctors and nurses to sit around waiting for patients to walk in be treated and sent home. No then sorry there is a queue and a waiting list and bad things happen.



----------------

As for the getting treated better than "a dog" your talking about "A" dog who has owners that spend THEIR money on it. Millions of other animals just suffer or are put down because thats all their owners can afford so the wait isn't to bad for most of us is it?



Note I never said NHS was free I said it wasn't Private.
Vets are waiting and ready to do this kind off expensive surgery as soon as the part is delivered.

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Wasn't intent on winding you {or anyone else} up Grah it was {as mentioned} a sardonic reflection on how folks fail to get treated better than dogs in the Untidy Kingdom. Lighten up a bit Grah, it's not homework your marking...

Canada Bob.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

It might have been a sardonic reflection and I for one take your point but it's not really all that accurate because of course many,many people get very good treatment from the NHS and I value it more now than I ever did before I moved to Canada.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

i agree that the many people get very good treatment on the NHS, and I see many examples evry day atwork. I may be trying to move to canada but thats not because the NHS fails its patients. I know people who work in Canadian healthcare and they have problems to, they have MRSA, they are shortstaffed etc etc.

THe NHS is not funded by NI contributions they pay for benefits -The NHS is funded by taxes, your right to treatment is based on pemanent residency in the UK.

As far as the dog- if the owner didnt have the money then he could be put down. we dot do that to our patients, we treat them and go into debt. Healthcare is expensive and I think we need to pay more taxes to fund it properly

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I hope you are never in the position where you have to flee your country for fear of your life. I hope your country never starts executing homosexuals, or sends agents round to your house to torture your wife because of what you wrote in a newspaper. Because it would be terrible if when you arrived in a safe country you found that the ignorant morons resident there thought you shouldn't be given medicine, housing and food.

K.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

Obviously you missed the point, even though I pointed it out it was a sardonic reflection on life in the Untidy Kingdom.

Why do I think it's bollocks when folks say "I hope you" when really they mean given the opportunity to wish something on you, they would.

Let me know which country YOU have in mind where they execute homosexuals ? we seem to be doing quite well on that front over here, or don't you read the papers. How many countries experience such violence towards them they they are forced to legislate for Hate Crimes.

What's this "arriving in a safe country" bollocks, when folks travel across half of Europe until they find a country with Council Houses rent free that is.

Regarding free issue of housing, food, and medicine, well, I'm from the old brigade where I'd be looking after my own countrymen first, rather than paying them the worst proportionate pensions in the EEC.

Put it this way, Saudi Arabia is one of the richest countries on the planet,
yet they don't give free houses, food or medicine to anyone {other than their own}, maybe that's why illegal aliens and asylum seekers don't head there ?

Get real, the UK is seen as a soft touch because of folks who are soft in the head, and so up their own, with political correctness that anyone speaking "their mind" is jumped on with ferocity.

The point about freedom of speech is that I'm entitled to my view of what's going on and object to it. There's no obligation for me to fall in line with your humourless rigid tedious PC opinions.

Tell you what, make me a list of countries with reciprocal agreements where we can go and expect free housing, food and medications, and live the rest of our lives out on Benefits...

These Benefits aren't free, they have been worked for and paid for by the majority of folks here in the UK, yet when THEY find themselves in need they are bottom of the ladder.

Charity begins at home, we should look after our own folks first and then look as to the needs of others.

Loosen up, my opinion is as valid as yours, live with it...

Canada Bob.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

I guess the point is, systems are supposed to get better over a period of years, the NHS has got worse... for whatever reasons, but whatever the reasons the buck stops on the desk of the PM and his Government, that's what Governments is supposed to be all about, betterment of the country for all of it's people, yet with a {so called} socialist Government we see the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, that's a fact...

Should mention though that I'm left wing, yet I have no affiliation with this shower... If Harold Wilson was alive today.. he'd be turning in his grave...

Canada Bob.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

I'm glad that someone had the wit to read between the lines, it's nauseating when folks are so much up their own that they feel obligated to correct any comments made in this or other forums as though they were marking homework ! What the bleedin hell is up with these half wits, they need to loosen up, get a life, read between the bleedin lines, sigh...

Canada Bob.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

If you publish a polemic you should be willing to defend the views expressed. Your comparison of the treatment of people and dogs is fatuous; even given the unlimited funding the dog has a person will still get treatment under the NHS that is unavailable to the dog. My mother has just had her hip replaced at the age of 82; they give up treating dogs long before they get similarly old.

Reading between the lines of your post attacking asylum seekers I discern attitudes ill suited to someone using "Canada" as part of his poster name. Canada is about immigration, it's not a place where one's "countrymen come first" as there are no countrymen, they're all dead. What there is now is immigrants, the very people you don't seem to like in the UK.

Your opinion may be valid, Ernst Zundel's opinion is valid, but it's out of step with Canada and, indeed, it's out of step with civilization. It is however, nicely in accord with the Daily Mail; fortunately there's now an overseas edition of that paper.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

Afghanistan does. So does Jamaica (although not officially). In Iraq you can get shot for selling falafels.

I think they have to legislate for hate crimes when people take their information from BNP leaflets.

Well that would be just dandy if the asylum seekers were allowed to work and pay taxes like the rest of us. But Daily Mail readers made that politically impossible.

I agree with you on one point. You are old school: it hasn't been the EEC for 15 years. It's the European Union. EU.

No, I wanted to point out that you used the phrase "asylum seeker" as a term of abuse. You demonized a whole class of people without knowing anything about their predicament. The best education you could receive is for you yourself to be a victim of the kind of abuse these people are fleeing. Short of me coming around to your house and attaching electrodes to your testicles, I can't see that happening in the UK for the time being.

Well, sort of. You aren't allowed to incite racial hatred.

Any country signed up to the UN convention on the rights of refugees will provide for refugees. Canada will. The UK will. France, Sweden, Germany, Italy will. New Zealand will.

Well, I bet I've paid more tax you. So do I get preferential treatment over you? No. I get taxed according to my earnings, and other people receive according to their need. I think I pay too much tax, as it happens, and I think the Government is way too keen to chuck my (and your) money in places it isn't needed. But I don't have any problem helping people fleeing torture get back on their feet. Once they are on their feet, they get treated just like everyone else.

Nope, charity begins with need.

K.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

Kinell, now were getting a thesis on it, I don't have time for the playground attitudes and your attempt at derison, I'll go for a pint, you go jump off a cliff... or Get a life...

Wigin Bob, that better for you...

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

I can't say I know the word "wigin" is it the verb form of wigger ?

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

That's a great response K - thank you

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

Bob, if you ever need a hip replacement, I know a good vet.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

I once was told to go to a vet by an A&E doctor.

I had a tick on my leg (fortunately not infected with Lyme's Disease). I had tried an ice cube, petroleum jelly, hot needle, to make the little swine let go. He didn't. He just died. So I had to go to A&E to get Mr. Tick's jaws dug out. The doctor said he'd never treated anyone for a tick before, and that I was better off going to a vet.

Alas, in this litigation-frenzy era no vet would treat me. In the end I had an incredibly painful anaesthetic jab (that doesn't make sense!) and a scalpel slicing Mr. Tick's remains from my leg.

K.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

As someone who has worked in both the NHS and Canadian healthcare I can say that the NHS is a much superior system. I'm fed up with people feeding off the UK media wagon that jumps on any negative story about the NHS and pumps it up into something huge. Canada Bob, how much have YOU used the NHS?

Yes, the NHS may appear to be underfunded, but that's because of the ever increasing numbers of people who
a) don't turn up to appointments
b) waste clinicians' time through turning up at A&E to have something checked out that the family doctor could've done
c) hypochondriacs, abusive drunken louts who've fallen over or gotten in a fight and
d) people who don't take responsibility for their own health and expect others to pick up the pieces for them when things go wrong.

I've come across them all and believe me, it's incredibly irritating as a clinician to have to kill time because some pratt couldn't be bothered turning up for an apppointment. And don't give it the "but you can never get an appointment" crap - yes you can if you NEED it! Compared with Canada where thousands, if not millions, of people don't actually have a family doctor, we do OK in the UK. And the UK has just about double the population of Canada, so the NHS is treating a hell of a lot more people. A lot of very dedicated people work in the NHS and pull out the stops when people NEED a service.

Take into consideration the advances in medical technology and the much superior team approach to working with patients (unlike here where it's very much old school bowing to the doctor for all the decision-making), people are now living much longer, despite the increase in chronic conditions, and are requiring more care at home and more equipment - this is all provided free in the UK - you have to pay in Canada (well, Ontario anyway) for home equipment, eg. powered bath seat - Canada $1500, NHS free.

I have animals that came with me from the UK and have required veterinary care in both countries - the vet system is totally privately funded in both countries and operates within the private sector, so of course the vet is going to carry out an operation asap as he knows you'll go elsewhere if he/she doesn't!

A poor comparison overall - and don't get on your high horse about tongue-in-cheek humour or it was a comment made only for a laugh. Joking about the system that I put heart and soul into for 12 years for patients I cared deeply about is no laughing matter when ignorant types like you decide to slag it off. And most of my NHS colleagues felt the same way.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

The NHS has its issues (many of which appear to be caused by politicians sticking their oar in and causing turmoil), but its coverage is excellent. If you want to see what's covered on other healthcare systems take a look at the notes accompanying your E111 form (as it used to be) to see what people in the rest of the EU (or EEC if you're Canada Bob) have to pay. For example, usually ambulance cover is not part of European healthcare systems (out-of-province ambulance isn't usually covered in Canada, either).

K.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

My OH was recently examined by a vet after coming off a horse. She's not covered by any sort of healthcare scheme in Canada and the vet had to come out for the horse anyway so it only made sense to ask him whether or not her leg was broken. If we had been in the UK we would have taken her to have the leg x-rayed but, since we're in Canada, she's getting by with a combination advice from the vet and from a mate who's a research scientist in a medical field. She hears a lot of "if you were a valuable horse..." and "in the case of a lab rat....".

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

Ambulances aren't covered by OHIP. At least, I've always received a bill.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

So is the NHS better than the Canadian healthcare system

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

There's no Canadian healthcare system, there are provincial systems. The NHS offers better care in some locations than the comparable system in some parts of Canada.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

If anyone on this forum can talk about government supported persecution against himself or his family, then its Canada Bob, he has been through worse situations than many of us could ever imagine. He stood up and fought for what he believed was right, in order to protect the good public, such as yourself, at a very real and immediate risk to his own and his familys lives.

All Bob was trying to do was point out what could be considered an ironic situation.

Get off his case! :mad:

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

Cor Blimey, what a diatribe...

You don't think I'm handing in Homework for your approval do you !

Who's all these "people fleeing torture" that you're on about, I think you need to speak to the lads at Manchester Airport in the Immigration Control. I've known one of them for a long time, and you should hear what they think about the reality, not your spin of it.

What's this about "you'll bet you've paid more tax than me" what do you know about me ?

Seeing as you brought money up, the probability is...
I'd bet I could buy an' bleedin sell you with my pocket change, you brought up the inference but beware, the reality would embarrass you.

I'd go point to point with you but yer not worth it, another PC maniac gagging for a platform by the sound off from.

Get a life, relax, ease off a bit, who the bollocks do YOU think you are !!!

It's not a class room in here, its not your job to mark folks up or correct them, I {like anyone else} am entitled to see the world the way that I do, so if you're looking for someone to walk over, you picked the wrong bloke, go vent yer spleen on someone else.

What's with this talk of testicles, electrodes and wallet sizes, some kind of penis envy you've got going ? Tell you what, save yourself a journey, connect the electrodes to yer own testicles, I wouldn't want you near mine, I'm not into that sort of thing...

Wigin Bob...

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

His dispute with his former employer has no bearing on his view of the NHS. In light of his tale though one might find irony in his view of asylum seekers.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

You initiated the thread by posting a political opinion; an attack on the NHS, you can hardly complain if someone comes back with a literate criticism of your position. Stop blustering, either substantiate your argument that dogs are treated better than people by the healthcare system in the UK, or move on to something else. The ad hominem attacks just make your initial position look silly.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

He is, however, entitled to an opinion on any subject he wishes, without having to be subjected to a 'higher than thou' tirade thrown at him

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And if he chooses to voice his opinions in an open forum he can expect them to be attacked. If he wants to sit at home and splutter into his milk stout, fine and good.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

The above is like saying there isn't a Canada, just a collection of Provinces.

Effectively there is a Canadian health care system, Canadians are covered no matter where they receive treatment in Canada, and beyond...

To say that the NHS offers better care "in some locations" is about as nebulous a statement as it gets, at the end of the day it says nowt...

I too have high regard for some of the Hospitals here, but there's others that I'd avid like the plague. Don't know if you saw that program on the BBC a couple of days ago, about the extent of MRSA and how Dr's were covering up the real cause of death on the Death Certificate by putting it down to Pneumonia. That may be tolerable to some folks, but it sure aint to me...

If you feel that your life is in safe hands over here, safer than it might be in Canada, then that's your right to believe that, and I wouldn't want to argue the point with you, I'd respect your differing opinion, I don't have a problem on that, but I do have a problem with witless folks how can't see the sardonic humour intended.

Bob.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

Bob - when I read your story about your whistle blower problems I thought "wow - what a guy" and gave you plenty of respect.

Having read what you have posted today I have also thought "wow" but this time it is surprise that you have, despite getting through all the trials and tribulations, remained a small-minded little englander wanting to bow to the Daily Mail and kick-out at any other poor soul who needs a helping hand.

Yes I know some of the Asylum seekers will be bogus (just wanting an opportunity to better their lot and work in the UK) but very many will not be. Most of the immigrants I see in the UK are the Kosovan car cleaners at tesco's or the Pakistani doctor or the Polish plumbers & builders.

You guys with your "too many immigrants wanting to skive from the hard working British families) diatribe really show yourselves up for what you really are - pretty small overall.

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Pity YOU don't know the rest of the story then hey !

Bob.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

Actually I could. I just choose not to.

Everybody is entitled to their view. YES everybody, if they dont want it challenged they shouldnt post.

As an observation I believe that the NHS that Bob is attacking is the same NHS under which he has been recieving treatment?
As far as paying (UK) taxes and NI contributions did he continue these whilst resident in Canada?

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

That would be fair especially in the context of the provision of government controlled services.

Deliberately so. I sought to suggest the comparison meaningless.

Re: What to expect from the NHS !
 

Having read your post and the resulting thread and so far resisted the urge to join in, I still come back to the same question that arose in my mind to start with........ What prompted your comments? Are you waiting for a hip replacement?.... is some relative of yours?.... Has your DOG just had surgery?

I too worked in the NHS for about 20 years, including 2 years on a joint replacement programme. When I left our hospital (in Worthing on the Costa Geriatrica, where the number of over 65's was about twice the national average) we were struggling to meet the 6 month wait time, that the government had laid down, even though year on year the numbers of surgeries carried out went up drastically. The next target we were supposed to meet was a THREE month wait. After this time the hospital gets fined :rolleyes: and the patient can opt to travel elsewhere for their treatment at the local authority's expense. In other words, another fine, to a hospital already struggling ..... very helpful.

The only way to meet the targets, and we were moving towards it, is to discharge patients within about 3 days of their surgery. This actually can work quite well, if there is a rehab ward or adequate services to support them at home. But that comes down to money and staffing again. And the patients don't like "being thrown out of hospital too early" either.

Yes the system is under stress, but it does beat what's going on here in Alberta, from what I've seen so far. Please don't label us as uncaring, if that was your point.

And if you can come up with a system that works better, with no cost to the patient at the point of delivery, then I'm sure the politicians would be pleased to hear it!

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I'm not sure that any amount of detail about life in the aeroplane parts industry would convince me that you're an authority on the merits of the claims of refugees but, go ahead, explain it all slowly.

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What an extraordinary ability you have to take one post and model who you think I am from that ? I'm amazed...

Here, stick this in your crop, one thing, just one thing you don't know about me is that until recently I was a Director of the LINDA Foundation in Lira, Uganda, raising funds to secure the health, safety, education, shelter, etc etc for children orphaned by the Lords Resistance Army, that make me any smaller in your eyes ? Or the campaigning for better care and treatment options for people with cancer here in the UK ? smaller still now hey ? you have no idea what I have done in my time !

Just because you might not like what I have to say, in ironic jest, doesn't reduce me in anyones eyes except your own, and if you knew the bigger picture you'd learn to know more about folks before you measured them.

Bob.