Warning: Sanctimonious cyclists ....
Jul 31st 2009, 9:30 am
#31
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,830
Re: Warning: Sanctimonious cyclists ....
The event today has been blown out of proportion in the media. Critical Mass has been happening every month in Vancouver for years now, but only this one has massive warnings to stay away. Perhaps due to the long weekend + Pride + Police games?
I witnessed the Critical Mass a month ago at the end of June. There was no violence. There was no pushing. It was all a fairly standard, low key affair - hundreds if not thousands of cyclists of all ages, all smiling and having a great time cycling through downtown Vancouver's streets.
I witnessed the Critical Mass a month ago at the end of June. There was no violence. There was no pushing. It was all a fairly standard, low key affair - hundreds if not thousands of cyclists of all ages, all smiling and having a great time cycling through downtown Vancouver's streets.
“The fact of the matter is that Critical Mass has reached a critical mass of civil disobedience,” said Vancouver police Insp. Rick McKenna.
Last year they blocked the Lions Gate bridge. If other road users behaved like this they would likely get a ticket or arrested.
Jul 31st 2009, 9:42 am
#32
half a century
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Sarf Lundun to East Van :)
Posts: 10,222
Re: Warning: Sanctimonious cyclists ....
The event today has been blown out of proportion in the media. Critical Mass has been happening every month in Vancouver for years now, but only this one has massive warnings to stay away. Perhaps due to the long weekend + Pride + Police games?
I witnessed the Critical Mass a month ago at the end of June. There was no violence. There was no pushing. It was all a fairly standard, low key affair - hundreds if not thousands of cyclists of all ages, all smiling and having a great time cycling through downtown Vancouver's streets.
I witnessed the Critical Mass a month ago at the end of June. There was no violence. There was no pushing. It was all a fairly standard, low key affair - hundreds if not thousands of cyclists of all ages, all smiling and having a great time cycling through downtown Vancouver's streets.
Lychee - yup - this one will be bigger - due to weather, pride and long weekend!
Jul 31st 2009, 10:15 am
#34
half a century
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Sarf Lundun to East Van :)
Posts: 10,222
Jul 31st 2009, 12:43 pm
#35
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: 100 mile house BC (tiz a long way away from devon)
Posts: 888
Re: Warning: Sanctimonious cyclists ....
Hi
I think the first thing should be compulsary bike tests, theory and then practical.
Then they will know what a bike lane is and use the expensive things...maybe even understand what a red light is.
Cyclists here seem a lot worse than the in the UK.
Perhaps they should all have a licence and ICBC insurance..
Only good thing I see is most do wear helmets.
Don't get me wrong .. I am all in favour of sharing the road, if other road users follow the rules..
cheers
Jerry
I think the first thing should be compulsary bike tests, theory and then practical.
Then they will know what a bike lane is and use the expensive things...maybe even understand what a red light is.
Cyclists here seem a lot worse than the in the UK.
Perhaps they should all have a licence and ICBC insurance..
Only good thing I see is most do wear helmets.
Don't get me wrong .. I am all in favour of sharing the road, if other road users follow the rules..
cheers
Jerry
Aug 1st 2009, 4:03 am
#36
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 43
Re: Warning: Sanctimonious cyclists ....
Aug 1st 2009, 4:34 am
#37
Occidentally Damaged
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 398
Re: Warning: Sanctimonious cyclists ....
Just a small point, without wishing to interrupt the anger management class, but imho if a cyclist can reach your car to slap it then you're within about 2 feet and that's too close. Often, there's no other way for a cyclist to alert a driver to his/her presence (the bell is unlikely to be heard above the driver's cellphone conversation).
Aug 1st 2009, 4:45 am
#38
Occidentally Damaged
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 398
Re: Warning: Sanctimonious cyclists ....
For any cyclists who think they are above the laws, or for us motorists who want to point out to this "superior" types that they aren't better than us, feel free to quote/print/ram down their sanctimonious throats, the following:
Obviously only applies to Ontario, but I would assume other provinces would have the same laws:
(taken from here: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pub...ction5.0.shtml)
Cycling and The Law
A bicycle is a vehicle under the Ontario Highway Traffic Act (HTA). This means that, as a bicyclist, you have the same rights and responsibilities to obey all traffic laws as other road users. Cyclists charged for disobeying traffic laws will be subject to a minimum set fine and a Victim Surcharge fine of $20.00 for most offences (please note set fines below are subject to change).
The following are key sections of the HTA concerning cyclists.
HTA 144/136 - Traffic signals and signs
stop for red lights and stop signs and comply with all other signs. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 153 - One-ways streets
ride in the designated direction on one-way streets. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 147 - Slow moving traffic travel on right side
any vehicle moving slower than the normal traffic speed should drive in the right-hand lane, or as close as practicable to the right edge of the road except when preparing to turn left or when passing another vehicle. For cyclists, you must ride far enough out from the curb to maintain a straight line, clear of sewer grates, debris, potholes, and parked car doors. You may occupy any part of a lane when your safety warrants it. Never compromise your safety for the convenience of a motorist behind you. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 142 - Signalling a turn
before turning, look behind you and signal your turn. Cyclists can use their right arm to signal a right turn. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 140(1) 144(29) - Crosswalks
yield or stop for pedestrians at crosswalks. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 140(6)/144(29) - No riding in crosswalks
walk your bike when crossing at a crosswalk. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 166 - Streetcars
stop two metres behind streetcar doors and wait until passengers have boarded or departed and reached the curb. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 175 (12) - Stopped school buses
stop for stopped school buses when the upper alternating red lights are flashing and the stop arm is out. Set fine: $400.00
HTA 62(17) - Lights
a bike must have a white front light and a red rear light or reflector if you ride between 1/2 hour before sunset and 1/2 hour after sunrise and white reflective tape on the front forks and red reflective tape on rear forks. Set fine: $20.00
HTA 75 (5) - Bell
a bike must have a bell or horn in good working order. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 64(3) - Brakes
a bike must have at least one brake system on the rear wheel. When you put on the brakes, you should be able to skid on dry, level pavement. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 218 - Identification
Cyclists must stop and identify themselves when required to stop by police for breaking traffic laws. The police officer will ask you for your correct name and address. Set fine: $85.00
HTA Reg. 630 - Expressways
Bicycles are prohibited on expressway / freeway highways such as the 400 series, the QEW, Ottawa Queensway and on roads where "No Bicycle" signs are posted. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 178(2) - Passengers
Passengers are not allowed on a bicycle designed for one person. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 178(1) - Attaching to a vehicle
You are not permitted to attach yourself to the outside of another vehicle or streetcar for the purpose of "hitching a ride." Set fine: $85.00
HTA 104 - Helmets
Every cyclist under the age of eighteen must wear an approved bicycle helmet. Parents or guardians shall not knowingly permit cyclists under sixteen to ride without a helmet. Set fine: $60.00
HTA 179 - Dismounted bicyclist
Cyclists are required to ride on the right-hand side of the road. If you are walking your bike on a highway where there are no sidewalks, you are considered a pedestrian and you should walk on the left-hand side of the road facing traffic. If it is not safe for you to cross the road to face traffic, you may walk your bike on the right-hand side of the road. Set fine: $35.00.
The following are not considered bicycles and are subject to different rules for use:
Limited-speed motorcycles
Motor-assisted bicycles (mopeds)
Low-speed vehicles
Electric and motorized scooters (go-peds)
Pocket bikes
Segway Human/Personal Transporters
Obviously only applies to Ontario, but I would assume other provinces would have the same laws:
(taken from here: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pub...ction5.0.shtml)
Cycling and The Law
A bicycle is a vehicle under the Ontario Highway Traffic Act (HTA). This means that, as a bicyclist, you have the same rights and responsibilities to obey all traffic laws as other road users. Cyclists charged for disobeying traffic laws will be subject to a minimum set fine and a Victim Surcharge fine of $20.00 for most offences (please note set fines below are subject to change).
The following are key sections of the HTA concerning cyclists.
HTA 144/136 - Traffic signals and signs
stop for red lights and stop signs and comply with all other signs. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 153 - One-ways streets
ride in the designated direction on one-way streets. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 147 - Slow moving traffic travel on right side
any vehicle moving slower than the normal traffic speed should drive in the right-hand lane, or as close as practicable to the right edge of the road except when preparing to turn left or when passing another vehicle. For cyclists, you must ride far enough out from the curb to maintain a straight line, clear of sewer grates, debris, potholes, and parked car doors. You may occupy any part of a lane when your safety warrants it. Never compromise your safety for the convenience of a motorist behind you. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 142 - Signalling a turn
before turning, look behind you and signal your turn. Cyclists can use their right arm to signal a right turn. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 140(1) 144(29) - Crosswalks
yield or stop for pedestrians at crosswalks. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 140(6)/144(29) - No riding in crosswalks
walk your bike when crossing at a crosswalk. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 166 - Streetcars
stop two metres behind streetcar doors and wait until passengers have boarded or departed and reached the curb. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 175 (12) - Stopped school buses
stop for stopped school buses when the upper alternating red lights are flashing and the stop arm is out. Set fine: $400.00
HTA 62(17) - Lights
a bike must have a white front light and a red rear light or reflector if you ride between 1/2 hour before sunset and 1/2 hour after sunrise and white reflective tape on the front forks and red reflective tape on rear forks. Set fine: $20.00
HTA 75 (5) - Bell
a bike must have a bell or horn in good working order. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 64(3) - Brakes
a bike must have at least one brake system on the rear wheel. When you put on the brakes, you should be able to skid on dry, level pavement. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 218 - Identification
Cyclists must stop and identify themselves when required to stop by police for breaking traffic laws. The police officer will ask you for your correct name and address. Set fine: $85.00
HTA Reg. 630 - Expressways
Bicycles are prohibited on expressway / freeway highways such as the 400 series, the QEW, Ottawa Queensway and on roads where "No Bicycle" signs are posted. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 178(2) - Passengers
Passengers are not allowed on a bicycle designed for one person. Set fine: $85.00
HTA 178(1) - Attaching to a vehicle
You are not permitted to attach yourself to the outside of another vehicle or streetcar for the purpose of "hitching a ride." Set fine: $85.00
HTA 104 - Helmets
Every cyclist under the age of eighteen must wear an approved bicycle helmet. Parents or guardians shall not knowingly permit cyclists under sixteen to ride without a helmet. Set fine: $60.00
HTA 179 - Dismounted bicyclist
Cyclists are required to ride on the right-hand side of the road. If you are walking your bike on a highway where there are no sidewalks, you are considered a pedestrian and you should walk on the left-hand side of the road facing traffic. If it is not safe for you to cross the road to face traffic, you may walk your bike on the right-hand side of the road. Set fine: $35.00.
The following are not considered bicycles and are subject to different rules for use:
Limited-speed motorcycles
Motor-assisted bicycles (mopeds)
Low-speed vehicles
Electric and motorized scooters (go-peds)
Pocket bikes
Segway Human/Personal Transporters
Sharing the road with cyclists
Bicycles and mopeds that cannot keep up with traffic are expected to keep to the right of the lane; however, they can use any part of the lane if necessary for safety, such as to avoid potholes and sewer grates. Cyclists need a metre on either side of themselves as a safety zone. When passing a cyclist, allow at least one metre between your car and the cyclist.
If the lane is too narrow to share, change lanes to pass the cyclist. When turning right, signal and check your mirrors and the blind spot to your right to make sure you do not cut off a cyclist. When parked on the side of the street, look behind you and check your mirrors and blinds spots for a passing cyclist before opening a door.
Aug 1st 2009, 9:18 am
#39
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 422
Re: Warning: Sanctimonious cyclists ....
I live in Vancouver and I was a recreational cyclist back in Wellington. I've very slow on a bike so dropped it in favour of running.
I, too, think the Critical Mass thing is deliberately and unnecessarily aggravating. I don't see how annoying people will improve things for cyclists.
RE: A cyclist slapping the car for being too close. If the cyclist could slap your car, especially if they were in motion at the time, then you were far, far too close. A cyclist is very vulnerable on the road and *feels* very vulnerable on the road. For a car to be within a metre of the cyclist is deeply scary and very dangerous. What happens if you decide to jerk the steering wheel because something ran across the road up ahead? 1 dead cyclist.
Re: stop lights. Yes, cyclists should obey red lights. However, the most dangerous times on a bike are stopping and starting. When I was cycling and the light was just going red I'd make a judgement call on what the safest thing to do was. If I felt I could get across safely then I would.
I once pulled up at an intersection and stopped at the side only to have a taxi come and park next to me. When the lights changed I had no room to get started so couldn't. Because you move more slowly when you start you need more room for the bike to move around in for balance.
Ever since then, whenever I was coming up to stop at lights I would move to the point in the lane right in front of the driver and come to a stop, right in front of the driver. I would start off, right in front of the driver, and then, once I'm going, pull off to the side. That way, if they would happen to run me over then claiming they couldn't see me would be justification for me (or my family...) to argue to the judge that they did not have sufficient vision to drive.
I, too, think the Critical Mass thing is deliberately and unnecessarily aggravating. I don't see how annoying people will improve things for cyclists.
RE: A cyclist slapping the car for being too close. If the cyclist could slap your car, especially if they were in motion at the time, then you were far, far too close. A cyclist is very vulnerable on the road and *feels* very vulnerable on the road. For a car to be within a metre of the cyclist is deeply scary and very dangerous. What happens if you decide to jerk the steering wheel because something ran across the road up ahead? 1 dead cyclist.
Re: stop lights. Yes, cyclists should obey red lights. However, the most dangerous times on a bike are stopping and starting. When I was cycling and the light was just going red I'd make a judgement call on what the safest thing to do was. If I felt I could get across safely then I would.
I once pulled up at an intersection and stopped at the side only to have a taxi come and park next to me. When the lights changed I had no room to get started so couldn't. Because you move more slowly when you start you need more room for the bike to move around in for balance.
Ever since then, whenever I was coming up to stop at lights I would move to the point in the lane right in front of the driver and come to a stop, right in front of the driver. I would start off, right in front of the driver, and then, once I'm going, pull off to the side. That way, if they would happen to run me over then claiming they couldn't see me would be justification for me (or my family...) to argue to the judge that they did not have sufficient vision to drive.
Aug 1st 2009, 10:33 am
#40
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 14,227
Re: Warning: Sanctimonious cyclists ....
...
Ever since then, whenever I was coming up to stop at lights I would move to the point in the lane right in front of the driver and come to a stop, right in front of the driver. I would start off, right in front of the driver, and then, once I'm going, pull off to the side. That way, if they would happen to run me over then claiming they couldn't see me would be justification for me (or my family...) to argue to the judge that they did not have sufficient vision to drive.
Ever since then, whenever I was coming up to stop at lights I would move to the point in the lane right in front of the driver and come to a stop, right in front of the driver. I would start off, right in front of the driver, and then, once I'm going, pull off to the side. That way, if they would happen to run me over then claiming they couldn't see me would be justification for me (or my family...) to argue to the judge that they did not have sufficient vision to drive.
Aug 1st 2009, 10:45 am
#41
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: Warning: Sanctimonious cyclists ....
Interesting....this is being talked about on twitter right now and the locals I'm talking to don't see what the fuss is about. Neither do I.
Personally, I think peeps are just pissed about the Burrard St bridge and this is the backlash.
Personally, I think peeps are just pissed about the Burrard St bridge and this is the backlash.
Aug 1st 2009, 11:14 am
#42
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: 100 mile house BC (tiz a long way away from devon)
Posts: 888
Re: Warning: Sanctimonious cyclists ....
Well this morning nearly saw two cyclist wiped out, because they choose to cycle on the road and not on the parrallel, empty cycle path, (surely their rightful space ?)
If the expensive cycle paths are built, my opinion they should be used, for everyones safety.
Both my kids have had close shaves whilst walking due to cyclists, either ignoring red lights or crossings.
A reg plate would have let the kids be able to report them.
And as a ps i don't use the burrard bridge to commute ..
cheers
Jerry
Aug 1st 2009, 11:15 am
#43
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: 100 mile house BC (tiz a long way away from devon)
Posts: 888
Aug 1st 2009, 11:43 am
#44
Occidentally Damaged
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 398
Re: Warning: Sanctimonious cyclists ....
Nothing stopping them reporting by description, just like they would any other criminal who isn't in his own registered car.
Aug 1st 2009, 11:44 am
#45
Occidentally Damaged
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 398
Re: Warning: Sanctimonious cyclists ....
