Time off
 

Hi,

I have a opportunity to immigrate to BC via the PNP process.
I have just one problem and that is time off from work.
To me it is a big part of my life, having time with your family and being able to see the world.
Being in BC their are opportunities for skiing and the wilderness.
How do people do this?How do people see sporting events during the week if they are at work?
Also being in the private sector are you being treated as a 2nd class citizen as if you are working in the public sector i.e Nurses you start of with 4 weeks vacation.
Is it all work?
This is important to me so much that I am very tempted to opt for Australia.

Re: Time off
 

Whilst I have no experience of BC, might I observe that some 30 million people in Canada manage to make their way through life with whatever vacation allowance they can get. Some have 2 week and some have more. Around 100 million Americans do the same but thats neither here nor there.

I have no idea what vacation time one might get in Australia but if getting more than 2 weeks off is the driving factor in deciding where to immigrate I imagine Canada is not for you and perhaps Oz isn't either. Rather, if you want to have 4 weeks vacation and the ability to travel cheaply above all else then stay in UK.

Re: Time off
 

The statutary vacation differs depending what province you are in and how long you have worked somewhere, but in most of Canada you could expect to get 10 days off a year, plus public holidays, etc.

You will get 20 days off in Australia plus public holidays.

Re: Time off
 

Perhaps that explains why there`s over 60 million in the uk and only 30 million in Canada.Since when has Canada been a part of America?
It`s all about work-leisure balance and I would rather have more leisure!

Re: Time off
 

Canadians don't seem to lie about so much as I recall people (including me) in the UK used to. They get up early. They go to work early! They finish early and do things in the evenings. We have the Canada Olympic Park opposite where we live, and we ski after work.

We are involved in field hockey here, and the guys (not us! :D ) think nothing about training at 6.30 am!

People often get Fridays off from time to time, or work flex hours to finish early on Fridays so they can have a long weeknd. We have a public holiday nearly every month and folks use those long weekends to get away, go camping/hiking whatever, or build a new deck!

It really doesn't feel like we are short-changed for holidays here, funnily enough. I had 25 days paid holiday in the NHS, but I was always left with trying to take it cos I had to use it up or lose it. I hated it really, as I had far too much work to be taking all that time off ..... it didn't go away, nobody did it for me, and I had to work twice as hard before I went and three times as hard to catch up!! I couldn't afford to take more than one (camping) holiday a year anyway, and paid for it for the rest of the year! :rolleyes:

Re: Time off
 

The OP was not implying that Canada is part of the US.

The North American work ethic is pretty famous. They work much harder than Europeans and (Americans at least) get paid more. They work longer hours, though many claim to work less hard in those hours than in Europe. Also, many state that they have more Fridays off, etc. While thisis great for long weekends, it's no good if you want to go abroad.

I guess this arrangement (which suits many) explains why one sees so few US (and Canadians) abroad. Would you go to Europe for 2 weeks if that was your entire allowance for the year?

Re: Time off
 

Why go abroad when your leisure activities are on your doorstep?

Considering up until the US rule change in the last 6 months most North Americans didn't even own a passport. You're also forgetting that you get more holiday the longer you are at a company, so by the time you can afford to travel to Europe you have plenty of holidays. How many brits would go abroad if the food & Booze cost more than in England?

Re: Time off
 

I can understand where you are coming from here as it is something i have also thought about. I currently get 35 days holiday a year but i have worked for them for 22 years and apart from an agreement where long serving employees got an extra day for every years service after so long we were also awarded extra holiday instead of a pay increase a few years ago and we have not had an increase in salary for 5 years now. But i also agree with Morwenna in that i also struggle to take it all every year as they don't like you being off for more than 2 weeks at a time and if i am booking holiday i need to try and fit in with my OH and that is not always easy.

Having said all that it has never once made me think twice about going to Canada. I don't beleive you can make a life changing decision like moving halfway round the world based solely on how much vacation time you might get in your new job.

Re: Time off
 

Why go abroad? Perhaps because you want to sample foreign cultures? Use a language you have learned? Do something other than climb mountains, snowboard, ski and camp in pine forests? I love Canada, but I also love foreign travel. 10 days is not enough for me. Plus, I don't (personally) consider working a decade somewhere to get an extra 5 days a good deal. This culture explains why Canadians and Americans are so often scared to change jobs. Would you want to move job after having spent eight years working towards an entitlement of 15 days?

People always talk about moving because of a need to improve their "quality of life". If annual leave entitlements are not an important factor in the quality of life, then I don't know what is.

Re: Time off
 

I 100% agree with you

Re: Time off
 

[/QUOTE]

Considering Winnipeg is reported to have enough cultural base to host 32 language help centre's that is fairly easy to do here. ( Yes some times you strain to hear people speaking English )


I stared with 3 weeks plus stats plus 10 days sick ( covers if Kids are sick to)

After 5 years I got 4 weeks plus stats plus 10 days sick. I currently have 4 weeks banked. flexitime means every Friday afternoon off during the summer and a late start Mondays.

Most are not scared to change they are comfortable with their lives and don't see the need to transfer just for a different "work culture"

See it depends on how much your job is part of the quality of life. If you actually enjoy being at your job, you probably don't need to look for additional comforts so much.

I change my jobs when the 1/3 of my weekday life is not a source of fun as well as pay.

Re: Time off
 

This is great, but Winnipeg cannot act as a substitute for visiting Prague or Bangkok or Singapore, surely?

I must say, this is better than the average Canadian gets. But having to work 5 years to get 20 days is demonstrably less pleasant than getting them immediately by law, no? Also, many UK and Australian places offer Flexitime.

I disagree. There is much less mobility in North American companies than in Europe and a key reason is that it takes so many years to get decent holiday entitlements. It's just how they do it there and I say fair enough - only being used to twice a smuch holiday I don't think I could make the change. I want to imprive my life - cutting my holiday time in half really won't help.

This I agree with 100%. Sadly, the vast majority of people hate their jobs.

Re: Time off
 

But they are just one factor. What i am saying is they cannot surely be the only factor. Yes we would all like more leisure time and a decent salary that would allow us to enjoy that time to the max but it is not always possible. As Atlantic Expat said why leave the UK at all if you currently have a good holiday entitlement and this is a driving factor in your proposed immigration.

Re: Time off
 

Is it really the *only* factor in anyone's mind when contemplating moving? I am sure it is not. Most rational people will simply consider it as one factor along with many others. I would imagine they consider weather, culture, holiday entitlement, financial standard of living, employment opportunities, long-term viability of location and so on.

Re: Time off
 

Exactly, but the OP said that holiday was so important they were considering Australia instead. It therefore seemed to me that they were basing their proposed emmigration on Holiday entitlement alone.

Re: Time off
 

Vacation entiltlement is only one factor but it is a major one.There would be many benefits for me and my family to move to Canada but the vacation issue is a huge drawback.It`s not exactly a positive career move!

Re: Time off
 

I agree. Canada has many positive factors, but this ain't one of them. Personally, I would not call cutting in half the time I could spend with my family an improvement in my lifestyle.

Re: Time off
 

I can understand that but i suppose it depends on what kind of job you are looking for and what prospects there will be in the future. The same i suppose goes for Australia, you might get more holidays but hate the people you work with and find there is no room for promotion.
It is all a bit of a lottery i guess and only you can decide what you want to do in the end.

Re: Time off
 

It is a lottery - yes. Also I believe an immigrant's happiness is largely down to his job. Big or small holiday entitlement - if you hate the job you wil probably start hating the country. Must get a good job.

Re: Time off
 

For thirteen years I argued that I wouldn't move to Canada with my Canadian wife mainly due to the "barbaric" vacation allowance... Then I had kids and decided it may actually be better for them to grow up in Canada rather than England...

Anyway, I don't work at all but I can comment from my wife's (and our family's) perspective.

Obviously it depends on province and employer, but OH started work with a major Canadian company in Feb this year and has no holiday entitlement for twelve months. That said she has took two weeks in May and the whole of August off unpaid without a problem. She also works 8-4 every day and is at the dinner table at 5pm with the rest of the family which neither of us could manage in the UK.

Because I stay at home, every weekend/evening is unimpeded by shopping and other mundane tasks meaning we all of our evenings/weekends free for leisure. And as a previous poster said, even leisure activities are plentiful.

Bank Holiday weekends (and there are plenty of them!) are spent travelling (traffic jams are rather unusually in the country so you can plan with some certainty), in the last twelve months we've seen so many place it's in comparable to the UK.

My wife feels her options for leisure here are better than they were in the UK. I guess what I'm saying is it's not black and white...

Zig

Re: Time off
 

Really? Frankly it amazes me that vacation entitlement would be the most important factor of the many faceted decision to move to a new country, be it Canada or anywhere. Hence my slightly glib response. If the time off thing is something you can't get to grips with then don't put your family through the trauma of moving over as you will never be truly happy here.

It's not really a Canadian thing IMHO but a North American one. Typical vacation allowance is much lower than we are used to in UK. One either accepts this and adapts to it or don't move here. Do note however that 'typical' is an important word. There are many people who have more than the standard 10 days. I'm one of them.

Oh, and whilst I'm about it, the belief that North Americans have a stronger work culture or work harder than Brits is a massive generalisation. I worked for a US company in UK for 11 years and it seemed that for every Brit there were at least 4 Americans doing essentially the same thing. Here I work with some hard working individuals who generally work every bit as hard if not harder than those colleagues I left in the UK.

I do deal with US companies where the employees are not tied to the desks 48 wks a year. For example one organisation works a 9 days out of every 10 cycle so they all get the second Friday off plus their 10 days plus stat. holidays. Not a bad position to be in. Another large US based organisation I deal with gives all employees 10 weeks paid vacation after 7 years service. I've not heard of a UK firm doing the same!

Re: Time off
 

In general, if you want lots of time off and access to a range of interesting places and activities then Europe is better than Canada. On that basis Canada would only make sense if the difference in income and expenses was such that, in the UK you couldn't afford a boat across the channel whereas in Canada you could afford a plane across the ocean.

All that said, you mention nursing. One of my daughters is a first year, no seniority, nurse in Toronto. She also works as a lifeguard and is taking courses to upgrade from her nursing degree. Nonetheless, since she started work, in late June, she's been to Vancouver for a few days, Greece for a week and is planning a week in Ireland in January (no, I cannot imagine why). Nursing, or any shift job, is good for travel because, you can always trade for Christmas or Diwali or Ramadam or whenever it is no one else wants to work. At least you can if you have no partner or one who has very flexible hours.

The problem, of course, is that anywhere culturally different is a long way away, America looks beautiful but the people there are the same as the people here (except they don't all wear plaid) but that problem would be even worse in Australia.

Re: Time off
 

Sorry not read through all the replies in this thread (only original post really) but just wanted to throw you a link that may help in your decision.

I lived in Montreal, Quebec 16 years before moving here to the UK almost 3 years ago. When I lived/worked there I consulted the government regulatory body on laws/entitlments with respect to employement through what is/was called the "Normes Du Travail".

Did a quick google search for the pages I used to refer to and found this:

http://www.fls-ntf.gc.ca/fr/sub_let_10.asp

There are certain "minimum" laws that employers need to adhere to in Canada, the Normes is a govt body that deals with enforcing these laws and providing information to employees and employers as to their rights/obligations, sort of like the "Regis du rentes de Quebec" does for landlord/renters issues.

Here is another link to the Quebec provincial government website link on types of leave entitlements paid and unpaid etc laws for Quebec, I am assuming that the other provinces in Canada have their own equivalent websites:

http://www.cnt.gouv.qc.ca/en/normes/familiaux.asp

EDIT: Just went through some more of the google search results and there is another relevant site that might help.

About employee rights etc good place to read up about employment laws in Quebec: http://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/loi/employees/92/

Re: Time off
 

Hi Ben,

I have skipped the minutae of this thread due to time constraints (busy living the BC life). Vacations 2-3 weeks for private sector, public sector, close to UK as gets, nursing a little less (MOH is a nurse) but decent enough. Year #1 gets pro rated in public sector. Private, you may have to work 12 months before getting any paid vacation but may get to take unpaid.

BC is mostly about living the life. Ski, boat, cycle, hike, walk, gold, whatever. Do most combinations on the same day at times. Often work gets in the way, often people can wangle their thing to fit some work into the week, it depends. BC is the plcce to be if you want to fulfil dreams of the great outdoors, but there are two things.

a) hard to find decent well paid work and
b) expensive to live.

What is amazing is that all this stuff is right on the doorstep, you live next to hiking, biking trails, have a ski hill 20-50 minutes from your house.

Work is full on, longer hours, but people here are full on for the leisure things, weekends and evenings are packed full of activities, buy a truck, load her up and off you go doing crazy shit. You can catch a hockey game after work, ride your bike down a mountain after work, ski on a flood lit slope or jog or whatever. Hell, people jog past my house at 4am just to fit everything in, plenty people at the gym at 5am here.

BC is the province of mentalism. It's infectious. But - you need money to fund this menatlist lifestyle.

Got $ = enjoy it / max out on the big hit sports
Not got % = not enjoy it / do more low cost sports

So you can acrry on with 4 weeks vacation in the (Y)UK being a slob/lounge lizard or make a life changing move to a more positive energentic West-Coast lifestyle/environment. Can't advise you re comparisons Oz, never had an interest in that deal.

Rich.

Re: Time off
 

I dunno but this is the second time I've noticed in this thread the idea that no one in Britain is active and I feel like I've got to stand up for all of the Brits that are very active back in the UK along with there being plenty to do. As much as I appreciate the wonderful life that can be had out here lets get a bit of balance. Not every Canadian is a sporty, outward bound individual just like not every Brit is a slob. It really does come down to the individual outlook and there's enough of a concern about obesity here to suggest that more people should be active.

Re: Time off
 

The sheer accessibility to outdoor pursuits is in a different league here, generally in the (Y)UK people see winter as a time to hibernate, get fat, eat lardy food, lie about and close the curtains to the went dank misery of the world outside their cold draughty terraced house.

Anyways, one has to drive a few hundred miles to find anything remotely of interest in the Y(UK). Ski-ing, sure, in Europe, a drive and a flight and hotel and tourist priced food, and cost of ski hire away. Not exactly for the poor, is it ? Even poor or 'normal' folks can afford to ski in Canada, and they do. Ever likely, in the (Y)UK people prefer to go to the pub, go shopping or drink themselves stupid til they puke/pass out. It's pure escapism from a life of misery.

In Canada (BC specific as per where I live) the outdoor mentality is full on. Can ride a bike down a mountain, play golf in the warm sun and ski all on the same day ? Oh sure, I could do that in the (Y)UK every weekend :rolleyes:

Maybe as you're not exposed to BC life, the difference (to you) is less pronounced, however the OP was asking about BC life so I was telling of BC life versus the lethargy of (Y)UK.

Anyways for me (BC) is a case of world class mentalism versus apathetic misery of drizzly overcast lounge-lizardry ? Hmm. Tough call.

Choose life.
Choose a sport.
Choose an outdoor sports.
Choose more sports than you can shake a stick at.
Choose a cheap or expensive sport.
Choose a house with a garage big enough to house all your sports shit.
Choose a job that pays for all your leisure pursuits.
///etc

Rich.

Re: Time off
 

LOL, you do have a way with words Rich. :D

Re: Time off
 

you also have to remember that in most cases these are protected minimums. So say in Ontario you are entitled to 10 days paid vacation as a minimum. That doesn't mean that is all you will ever get. I've been at my current job now for just over 3 1/2 years and after three my vacation allowance went up to three weeks, or rather the vacation pay did, they now pay 6% into a vacation pay allowance rather than 4% where 4% gets you 10 days and 6% gets you 15 and then you factor in your regular days off like weekends taking you to three weeks. So that means if I work a full year the vacation balance is enough to pay for the equivilant of three weeks of regular work. I could take off 4 weeks but I'd only get paid for 3. So there are usually allowances for taking extra or unpaid vacation if you budget for it. So then you can see if it's really time with your family you value or more the money.

Even in this situation my position isn't paticularly senior and that's the same allowance that applies to all employees. The guy I work with negotiated an extra week before he took the job so that he started with three and that is something to bear in mind. If you are negotiating for compensation, don't just think about the salary but other benefits as well such as negotiating vacation tim eif it's important to you. I know a lot of people though who have never taken a vacation in the three years I've been working here.

Personally I don't notice that much as the weekends and evenings and stat holidays etc. provide a reasonably good amount of free time. If you really want lot sof vacation time though, why not be a teacher, they always say they need more, then you get the whole summer.

A lot of jobs have options for sabbaticals etc. as well. For example my wife's Aunt & Uncle and 2 kids have taken this year off to go sailing down to the caribbean and back. One is a teacher and one worked for a bank. For the teacher they were allowed to choose reduced pay for a determined period that then allowed them to in effect save up a years salary and get paid while taking the year off, and the bank, while not paying held the job for the term of the sabbatical. So while that requires certain financial sacrafices and a lot of careful budgeting and planning, you can't argue that there are no ways to spend time with your family. Admittedly it's not as easy as just booking off three weeks paid in the summer to go to the Med but it's not like everyone is a prisoner in an office and never allowed to leave. Most people here seem to live a more varied liesure life than most people I know or knew in the UK, certainly not as much time spent binge drinking within my age group (25-30).

I can see how the contrast could be an initial shock if you have been used to large vacation allowances for years and have to get used to living without it but it can easily be overcome and it is just another adjustment to living in another country. If everything was the same then there would be little point in moving.

Re: Time off
 

Is it all work? Apparently not for the Aussies who appear to be rather more laid back than most.

Re: Time off
 

That rather depends on what your interests are, no?

And people might be inclined to take your rather tiresome opinions a little more seriously (eg "UK a life of misery" :rolleyes: ) if you dropped that seriously childish habit of referring to the "(Y)UK".

Re: Time off
 

You seem to be contrasting an episode of the OC with one of Coronation Street rather than describing anything recognizably Canadian.

Last night I was in the pub with some Canadians, they seem always to be in the pub, occasionally stepping out for a joint or some fries or Chinese food, except in hunting season when they go and blast bambi (as well as neighbouring horses and innocent dog walkers). One described how the Children's Aid had just locked his daughter up in a secured halfway house, he hoped she lose some weight there, kids today all being all fat because they get no exercise and drink too much. The major topic of conversation was the failure of a competing pub, people think it went bust because a black guy bought a share, that brought in some new, mainly Jamaican, customers but drove away the, mainly white, regulars. I mention this last topic to show that day to day life here is not so wildly different from that in the UK.

I don't think we, as a family, do anything in the way of exercise here that we couldn't do in the UK. It's difficult to ski in England admittedly but I have a colleague here who's a keen skier, in the winter she goes to Austria because it's cheaper than going to the Canadian west or to Quebec and, depending on the exchange rate, can be cheaper even than Utah. I haven't checked but I'd guess White Hart Lane is closer to skiing than we are here.

The UK has swimming pools, horses, sailing boats, the facilities we use here. It may be that we couldn't afford to do the same things in England that we do here and it might be that, in the UK, we wouldn't realize that we could do them, but those are different arguments. It's not the case that these things are unavailable in the UK and, in many cases they're nearer; we drive fifty miles each way through dense traffic to get to the barn.

Your example of skiing as something ordinary people in Canada can do grates with me because at the time when Canada had Olympic caliber skiiers, Podborski, Read and so on, I lived with a Swiss woman. She ranted and raved constantly about the rich kids from Canada having an unfair advantage over the good Swiss kids who learned to ski from their farms to their school. iirc Podborski grew up in suburban Toronto, skiing to him would have been an everyday activity in the same way it is for kids from Hampstead.

Re: Time off
 

The word "pub" isn't even part of the Canadian vernacular. Fact is, the word "pub" sounds very UK to any native born Canadian.

Austria is cheaper than Blue Mountain, the NY resorts or Mont Tremblant for a resident of Ontario? Yeah, I'll bet.

Re: Time off
 

Ocean, I was drinking with a fellow from Listowel and one from Gander, they use the expression "pub" but they may have got it from me. Substitute "bar", "legion" or "tavern" if you prefer; that place where Canadians guzzle jugs of X, Blue and 50. I'm surprised you don't think such places are central to Canadian life; are you Canadian by background, where were your parents born?

Blue Mountain is hardly a mountain and it's not her first time on the slopes. My colleague has a condo at Tremblant but it's a better deal financially to rent it out and go to Austria than to use it. She's never mentioned NY or Vermont, I'll ask about that when she comes in.

Re: Time off
 

I can confirm that there are 'pub's' as well as bars in Newfoundland. So the chap from Gander probably wasnt confused at all. The chap from mexico on the other hand...........

Re: Time off
 

Isn't the one from Mexico the lesbian?

Re: Time off
 

This isn't a popularity contest :rolleyes: there's no prize for niceness in a BE "let's-all-have-a-nice-cup-of-tea" way.

Rich.

Re: Time off
 

It may so, but I'm talking of a normal person being able to afford used gear (very accessible in rela terms) and travel 40km up to the XC ski area. Total cost plus a chopped meat sandwich and flask of hot coffee/chocolate is very accessible even to the working poor. You can even wear cheap lycra gear, no need for expensive downhill clobber. No need for lift passes, turbo trucks, bling bling and $400 ski boots there. It's everyday stuff, is what I'm saying. Of course the rich kids hit the resports and do their pro/semi pro thing. The industry is bigger in Canada than most of Europe combined I'd imagine ? [just a guess]

No need to grate, old bean.

Rich.

Re: Time off
 

Ah, cross-country skiing, yes, that's accessible.

Re: Time off
 

My family (on both sides) goes back at least 200 years in the Region of Waterloo. There is even a road in Wellesley township named after my family.

With respect to the place "boozing" has in Canadian culture as a whole, this has changed markedly over the past 35 years. Canadians - as a whole - have cut back severely on the habit of imbibing alcoholic beverages over that time. I can easily recall 35-40 years ago when the ditches of both sides of any highway in southern Ontario had plenty of empty beer bottles in them. Then the culture/laws changed; programs promoting an end to "drinking and driving" where largely successful. Over time, "social drinking" in Canada also became far less popular.

The only people that I have ever heard complain about the lack of pubs in Canada are a few expat Brits on this web site - Canadians aren't troubled by that. If you go to a "pub", I would imagine that the Canadians you meet there are onto boozing more than average. At any rate, drinking at bars, taverns or at a legion, is not central to lives of the majority of Canadians. A small minority perhaps, but not the majority by a long shot.


I agree that Blue Mountain is hardly a mountain - it's just a big hill, but there are far worse places to go skiing. A resident of Toronto can be there in 2 hours, ski all day and then drive home. It's so close to Toronto that you can ski there without paying for a room. That has to be a pretty cheap day of skiing.

Re: Time off
 

I'm not from Mexico, I just reside here in the winter. I also lived in Nfld for a year, and "pub" is a British word that Canadians are familiar with. In English Canadian vernacular the name for a drinking establish is: "hotel" or "bar" - not "pub".

Sure there are pubs in Canada, but they are connected with ethnic Brits, and are not Canadian in origin. A "pub" is about as Canadian as a Vietnamese restaurant - but we have those too.