Dear All,

Not been to forum in a while having shelved Canadian plans due to sheer impossibility of getting work (medical) after much investigation...

...HOWEVER, due to our frank unhappiness in the UK (poss exacerbated by the recent troubles; we live & work in Liverpool though where to be honest this behaviour is not uncommon) we are re-visiting our Canadian "Dream".

To do this requires me re-training from emergency medicine to general practice, and will take a minimum of 4 years...Husband already finished training, so easier for him to be placed with a fellowship or similar (we hope!!)

Our main reason for wanting to move is a "better life" for our boys (1 & 3 yrs) in terms of lifestyle/sports/education/outdoors/community/society but I would like to be sure I am not deluding myself...

Just browsing the forum at the mo, there is some unhappiness with those who are in Canada (even bona fide Canadians!), so may I take a straw poll:

Are things better in Canada than in the UK?? (I know this covers a multitude!)

Any correspondence v much appreciated

Warmest Regards,
Natalie

Now theres a question
We have been here 4 months, I am an accountant and hubby was a police investigator. We had a decent enough life in the UK but wanted to live here, to enjoy the culture and all things Canadian.
We have found , and this is in our opinion only of course:

1. I found it easy to get another job that I enjoy that is actually a step up from my previous one. I am being paid the same number but with a dollar sign instead of a pound sign. This is probably because I have no Canadian experience. My qualification directly transfers, I am SO grateful for that one.

2. Hubby is having lots of trouble finding a job as he cant join the RCMP until he is a citizen and there is hardly anything in a related field. Having said that a lot of the job market here is hidden and hes finding more potential opportunities, the more people he meets.

3.Our home and neighbourhood is far better than the one we left, in Surrey. That was a small town near Gatwick, this one is a subdivision 30 mins from Halifax.

4. Daycare in the UK was much better, daycare here is limited and in my view not of the same calibre as the one we left. Its $34 a day but we have to pay full time right now, whereas we only paid part time in England due to hubbys shifts and the options to pay by the hour for what we needed. Therefore its actually the same cost here as in England, for us.

5. Food is amazingly expensive. Thank goodness for costco

6. My children are free here, they go out on their bikes and the whole neighbourhood seems to watch out for them. The elementary school my 7 year old goes to is outstanding. The culture is about kindness and good behaviour in addition to learning, there is no homework until grade 3 (about 9 years old I think)

7. I love walking here, everyone is friendly and considerate, I havent met one teen that hasnt said good evening yet.

8. I love the distinct seasons, March was cold and April was miserable. July has been the first July of my life I can actually called summer. It was outstanding.


Obviously theres more to say, the list could go on, but this is what springs to mind.
Good luck in your decision making. For us, we cant imagine going back to the UK

How about a move within the UK? Plenty of crime/yob free areas and it'll be a hell of a lot cheaper than spending £15-20k on the move, plus the cost and hassle of retraining.

Something to think about maybe? Or course, the EU is also open to you if you are a UKC, so that would be easier and cheaper too if you really want to move abroad.

Hi there, and thanks for the reply; Moving within the UK is something we have been & are still looking at, just specifically looking for people's thoughts on Canada really as a country both OH & I have spent time in and fell in love with. (Just want to not let heart rule head!)
Moving within the EU as a medic is incredibly difficult, not least the language barrier, and not an option for us. (We do both speak conversational French though!)

My daughter's partner is a doctor, an EU national. They met when he was on a fellowship in an emergency department in Toronto where she was nursing. He didn't much care for Canada due to the cold and the distance from family so, at the end of the fellowship, they looked for work in Europe. Since English is the only language they have in common they went to the UK, where he's now a locum consultant in an emergency department. We had dinner with them on the weekend, he offered the following questionably useful comments:

"work is the same, more stabbings less shootings"

"Toronto is friendlier, it's hard to meet people in London"

The first is a cliche, doubtless true but not remarkable. I don't know how much to read into the latter because he's only been in the UK for half a year and because he speaks Italian, a language widely used in Toronto but not in London. A pertinent point is that, despite what I've read here, he didn't seem to have any trouble working legally in Canada and the UK having qualified in neither. It seems more trouble for a Canadian nurse to be certified to work in the NHS, not least because, as someone trained outside the EU, she needed her English tested. ("wtf?", she remarked, colloquially).

Would the "re-training" that you and your husband are undertaking be provided by the public purse, e.g. the NHS?

If you are only taking the re-training in order to emigrate, isn't that a little... wrong?

Rereading the original post, the retraining would be from emergency medicine to general practise. That seems odd unless the idea is to move to rural Canada, otherwise it would seem simpler to get a job in an emergency department here.

Hi

Would it be possible for your husband to get a job, you go over on an open work permit and work part time say at something completely different if you can't manage on his wage alone?

I intend to get an open work permit. I am a qualified counsellor here but have to sit a huge exam to practise over there which will have to be shelved until we are all settled. I have no problem with doing anything if we find we aren't as comfortable over there as we are here...

Just a thought?

x

Ahem. This thread is very off-topic now, perhaps not the best place to solicit advice!

All training within the NHS is service provision, we work very hard, pay taxes, and most of the cost of "training" a medic is the initial medical school training that is incurred by the institution you are enrolled with (who also pay the first 2 years of wages, not alot of people know that, I'm sure). I work in a busy inner city A&E, servicing one of the most deprived boroughs in the UK. We regularly clock up overtime we never ever claim for, as do most NHS frontline staff. So no, there would be no difference in cost to the NHS in my staying in emergency medicine as a trainee, or starting as a GP trainee.

<signing off>

Don't leave the forum.... there are plenty of people here who genuinely want to help others.... see my post above. Ignore the nasty comments...

So, why not get the same job in Canada and save the bother of retraining?

Is it better than the UK, in my opinion it depends on what you choose to compare??

Many on here will say yes.. but when you look at what they have done, its completely understandable. If you move from the city to a distant part of the rural country side you ‘ll often find nicer smaller schools, a more relaxed environment friendlier locals, less crime, and yes work will often be harder to find (You can do that in the UK)

Having said that if you want city life with big mountains in your back yard, something that doesn’t exist in the UK then you can do that here

If it’s a softer version of the US you’re looking for, we do that very well.

But schooling here is as much as a lottery as in the UK (some very good, some very bad, and most in between)
The health care is a much bigger lottery that the UK with a higher chance of losing out ( just getting a doctor is some regions is near impossible and you better get used to walk in clinic’s and long waits)
Food and cost of living seem to be comparable when lumped together, cars are cheap, fuel consumption is poor and insurance is high,
Houses are cheap but do require much more maintenance, and heating/cooling costs are much bigger..
I believe that overall we do have slightly less crime here on average, but the level of violent crime is higher,

I don’t think its better or worse when you total it up and average it out, but it is different..

And yes with housing being dirt cheap in some areas it looks like an attractive reason on its own, but remember those houses are cheap for a reason, this is still a housing market with a small bubble being driven by low interest rates and a supply and demand environment..
Think finding work, low wages, harsh environment, native issues, and read the local paper for the region on-line…

Also you need to factor in that many on here are still in the “honeymoon period” so expect mountains of bias (and some of the worst aren't even here yet)

Hi Mrs Bee

We've been here for 20 months and when we came over our children were 2, 5 and 6.
We have found it a very positive experience for the children. Our son (the oldest child) went back a year and started in grade 1 at school. He was a little behind with his reading and has now caught up and is doing well. We found the education here is more hands on and less book only orientated. My eldest daughter went from full time to part time kindergarten but has since done grade 1 and is doing well also. I got an extra year at home with my little one and she starts kindergarten in September. She did a year at preschool and enjoyed it. I didn't find it very different to the UK preschools. The school is good and the teachers really approachable. They say to call them by their first names but I personally find this difficult!!
There are lots of festivals and events on that are free or sometimes ask for a food bank donation. This has meant we have done soooo much as a family since being here. We couldn't afford to go and do things in the UK as it was so expensive for 5 of us.
There are lots of sports the children can try and you get the tax benefit of $500 per child per year. This helps.
My girls are joining brownies and sparks this year too.
My husband loves his job and they appreciate him which he also never had in the UK. They are more family orientated too.
There are difficult times too. I was self employed in the UK and don't work now due to childcare costs. I miss that and find life quite boring. I also miss my friends and family. I have some good friends here now but it's difficult at first - obviously. We've all found people to be very friendly.
The paperwork can be quite stressful. We had problems with our TWP and ended up with no status for 4 of us! It was bad advice from the HR lady. Our PR was first refused but due to an admin error we're now reapplying. More than once I would have used this as an excuse to go home.
We've now had several days of glorious sun and the children have played outside. They've all got tans for the first time in their lives. We skype home regularly.
So overall there are postives and negatives but for us the positives are winning. We did a 2 week RV holiday in 2009 and my husband organised job interviews while we were here. When it was time to go home we didn't want to and so for us the decision was made.
I hope this helps a little bit and good luck with what ever you decide.

Vanessa

As said above, it depends on what you compare. Cricket is better in the UK, as are the pubs. But for us, life in general is much better in our part of Canada.

You are not deluding yourself if you want to embrace the Canadian way of life. Then a "better" lifestyle/sports/education/outdoors/community/society is available. Not everywhere in Canada of course, but it is certainly available.

However, if you are looking to replicate the UK without the nasty bits then this may be a delusion.