Former Lancastrian

So according to section 2 of the Charter dont you agree that you have the right of freedom of expression or freedom of speech.
Now stand on a street corner yelling out racist comments or display signs that are racist etc etc and see if you will be arrested or charged.
Do you think you have the right to say anything under this section?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section...s_and_Freedoms

Almost Canadian

If the questions were lawful and the amount of force used was lawful, I fail to see the issue, unless, of course, you don't want these people doing their jobs at all.

One assumes that, at some point during the exercise of your right to silence, you would be entitled to speak with a lawyer, but I don't know.

If the actions of the official were unlawful, you would have the appropraite form of redress.

It seems to me that the alternative is for "authority figures" to have no authority at all. That being the case, society would descend into being a very violent place and your "rights" would be violated each and every day by those that were prepared to treat you in a manner you believe to be uncivilized.

Of course, as they are stealing your property at gunpoint, burning your house down and doing whatever they fancied doing with your OH, you could point out to them just how uncivilized they are (point out to them that they were likely treated badly when they were kids and that, if only they would give you a hug and chant rhymes with you, life would be good) and ask them to leave but, somehow, I doubt they would.

It sounds like you are preparing for such a scenario and time will tell which system you prefer

robert_masters

Hiya, sorry only just picked up on this

Yes we have had the same problem, we have asked and they just said they wanted to tracked our dates in/out of the country. Just a log really.

When we first went through we showed them everything, he let us through. Next min as we travelled along an Immigration guy pointed at my husband and said 'go in there'!! There was I standing like a right idiot because I didn't know what to do. All puzzled looking , I then asked 'do I need to go'? He replied, 'Are you with him', 'Yes' I said, he glarred and replied 'Then u as well'.

Well why didn't he just bloody say that in the first place. And why didn't they just mention at the first desk that we all need to go into the Immigration Office??

There we have it, in the same boat!

Angela

Steve_

Get a NEXUS card. That's what I did. Doesn't help so much entering the US if you're still a PR but it definitely does entering Canada.

Steve_

I always complain at the first sign of trouble. Complain, complain, complain. Look at my entry record - full of complaints. I want to talk to your supervisor, etc.

Not so much with CBSA (with one exception) but so many times with CBP I don't take crap anymore. First time something comes out of their mouth that is not backed up by facts or law - I complain.

DigitalGhost

It could also be an issue in some other parts of Asia, particularly South Korea for obvious reasons, and I know of British citizens of 'foreign' descent who have also had a lot of issues with British immigration for visiting countries like Pakistan.

Alan2005

If somebody wants to shout racist comments on a public street I don't really see why they should be arrested for it. Even though in Canada they probably would be for some well meaning, but badly implemented, thought crime law. Anyway, any point you are trying to make here is lost on me.

Not wanting to answer inane questions (what is your job?, who do you work for?) is not the same as not wanting a police force.

I don't care if asking those questions is lawful - it's an intrusion and I don't subscribe to 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear' like some do. I don't think you do either.

I've still not seen an actual reason for these questions; I've never been asked anything going into the UK, and I haven't been asked in so-called communist authoritarian countries like Laos, Vietnam, or China apart from the purpose of visit box on the form (and no asking non residents why they are coming is not the same as asking residents who their employer is)

Can anyone actually justify why you ask returning residents inane questions like "what do you do for a living?" when other places don't ask such things. Properly I mean, saying "it's the law" is not a justification. Maybe FL can answer this - but I won't hold my breath.

Bali2010

My worst & most intrusive was in Finland - and I had a government sponsored work visa - no I wasn't pregnant & no I didn't intend to get pregnant whilst there..explained to the scary looking armed guy.

iaink

You accept that they have to ask some questions in order to have a chance of catching those seeking to pull the wool over their eyes right?

Maybe they ask some "baseline" questions to see how you respond, before moving on to more searching questions of those who seem unusually shifty?

Im not saying they do or dont, but if I were in their shoes it seems one technique to try and separate the sheep from the wolves. Bottom line is they are just trying to do their job as far as Im concerned.

Alan2005

No I don't accept that you need to ask all innocent people questions just in case they are guilty of something.

You'd probably agree that having the police stand at bus stops asking everyone who gets off what they've been doing, where they've been, or who they work for on the off chance of catching a criminal would be stupid. This is the same thing and if that really is the justification then it just shows you how incompetent the CBSA actually is.

And it still doesn't explain why Canada needs to do it when other places do not - what's so special about Canada that it needs to know what I've been doing on my holiday?

Almost Canadian

Of course such questions are nonsense and if asked, I believe they would be unlawful. "How much alcohol are you bringing with you?" are appropriate questions. I doubt one would be escorted away for refusing to answer a question about one's occupation, but I am prepared to be enlightened

iaink

So there shouldnt be any human interaction at all at the border then and people should be able to come and go without any fear of getting caught breaking the law should the choose to be dishonest? Well, its an intersting idea I suppose. Good luck with that...

I dont think Canada is unique in this at all, and its not that they want to actually know what you have been doing on your holidays, they just want to see how you react to the questions. Its an interrogation, the idea is to try and unearth anything you might be trying to hide, and its obviously just one of many techniques and tools available to them, just as the police have many ways to do their job too.

I dont know, but my suspicion is far more smuggling is done by people returning home with stuff than going away, so there is probably good reason to get a harder time coming back into the country. Could be a mile wide on that though.

Also as a non citizen the possibility is always going to be there that your status could have lapsed, so its just one more thing the border officials have to check on should they choose to. I really dont see the point of being up tight about it. If its a problem, get a canadian passport and see how it goes then.

For me passport control and customs is like driving, I must have one of those faces that gets me waived through. Either that or Karma has a "bend over while I fetch the gloves" experience in store for me somewhere down the line...

Alan2005

I regularly get asked such questions. Of course I answer them because I don't want to get carted off and beaten up, but I do find them stupid and intrusive. I wouldn't be that bothered if they asked me how much booze I had, although given it's on the form that would be a stupid question to ask as well.

That's how it is when I go to the UK. And that's how it will be in Canada when the machines are used everywhere. Thank god - no more stupid questions and racism won't cause me any delays.

I know Canada isn't unique - the US does it as well. As far as I know, nowhere else "interrogates" literally everyone. In most places interrogations are reserved for people that are suspected of crimes. Are you saying that the people who work for the CBSA are so crap their job they need techniques such as blanket interrogations when their counterparts in other countries do not?

Former Lancastrian

Can we at least agree on that residents and non residents smuggle narcotics, firearms, child pornography and other prohibited goods into Canada and that some of them bring such goods back through Canadian airports.
Our job is to try to interdict such goods and arrest and prosecute persons who are bringing such goods back.
Now without the smart answers like coffee, rum etc etc what do the following countries all have in common ;
Jamaica, Colombia, Mexico, Pakistan & Afghanistan etc ?
So when several flights arrive all at once with several thousand passengers and you are coming through Customs and you have not filled out your flight details dont you think it might be appropriate for the BSO to ask where are you returning from?
Now lets say the passenger is coming back from Colombia after a 2 day visit I think a what were you doing in Colombia question is appropriate. I examine the passport and find several stamps from Colombia over a short period of time I might then ask so what do you do for a living or how come so many trips to Colombia?
The genuine nothing to hide nothing to fear traveller will probably be very forthcoming about their trip i.e. I was visiting our plant, our head office is there etc etc and based on those answers and possibly negate any suspicions of narcotic smuggling.

I suggest you read the following 2 x Supreme Court of Canada decisions
http://scc.lexum.org/en/1999/1999scr...9scr1-652.html
http://scc.lexum.org/en/1988/1988scr...8scr2-495.html

You dont need to read the whole case just the first couple of pages and tell me in basic terms what happened and who was involved.

Alan2005

Yes, sure.

Ok, if they haven't filled in their flight details then fair enough I suppose. I always fill mine in.

Sure, in such circumstances it's fair to ask. I don't object to answering questions on occasion - I object to answering them every time I travel; especially if I've just got off a 13 hour flight and am knackered.

Don't you get a feel for these things anyway? I would have thought that if you've been doing the job a while you'll get to know the kind of things that cause suspicion. Maybe you do, and I just look shifty and that's why I get asked who my employer is whenever I travel.

I'm surprised that anyone does this. You'd have thought that anyone smuggling something in a digital format would create a one off hotmail account, email myself themselves an encrypted zip file and not even take a laptop with them. I guess peado's are stupid - at least the ones that are caught by the CBSA.