Tumbling_Dice

Have you sampled Halifax driving? I think it has the highest per capita accident rate in Canada. They are utter muppets... drive too close, speed, seem to believe that the mere expedient of popping on the indicator means they can change lane, don't use tail lights when it is gloomy outside, turn a corner and then indicate when the manoeuvre is almost complete... they are fools, they are careless, the have no use for looking before making a move. Genuinely never felt unsafe driving in my life... until now. And that includes places with such renowned standards as Sicily, Naples etc.

DMajor

I'm sure the 17.4 million who voted for Brexit all had different reasons.
No maquiladora's in the UK as far as I'm aware although the EU freedom of movement brought in cheap labour and dragged a lot of already low paid jobs down another few notches.
The UK produces enough of its own chickens, around 70%, no need for poisoned ones.

Siouxie

Can we take talk of Brexit and similar Non-Canada related posts to our off topic forum - The Maple Leaf please... Cheers

carolg2712

I'm fine with that. The original mention was in the context that the UK isn't the country the OP had left 3-4 years ago 😀

endeavour27

Getting the conversation back to the original topic, it seems no good name has struggled to make much progress with profound homesickness, many month after starting this thread. Is 2020 the year you can make some progress and find new hope? If the end-goal of returning permanently to the UK is too big a leap at this stage, maybe shoot for some smaller, shorter-term and realisable goals that, step-by-step, can get you into a better state of mind? Eg. "By this summer, I'll have returned to the UK for a few days to have a drink with my mates". Any other strategies or suggestions out there?

BristolUK

See over here. Post 61.

carcajou

OP, ignore all the banging on here about politics, which is extraneous to your situation or your interest in moving back. The election result sure does not indicate Britain is "divided," quite the contrary actually. Britain is not much different from circa 2015 or 2016. You may find your professional networks have dried up a bit as these often only last about two years after someone leaves a country.

As you've now been in Canada four years, that is time enough. You need to have a serious talk with your partner about what you are feeling and your desire to go back.

no good name

Believe me, I have tried. I have explained some deep and genuine feelings a hairy ass man stereotypically would keep to himself. But in this modern era, apparantly it is "ok not to be ok"... so I have tried. But after many discussions, many horrible arguments, the subject is now so sensitive my wife ignores it completely (as she is content) and I'm left feeling more and more frustrated, lost, sometimes resentful... The words "I am happy here, I will never go back" have been stated loud and clear many times. So what are my options? Stay in this miserable stalemate 'forever' or leave my wife and kids to live on the other side of the planet.. which doesnt exactly seem a happy existence either..
I accept there is two sides to every story, but it's not simple 'homesickness' that is my issue. I am so annoyed and bitter that we have gave up a modest, secure, decent life and gave ourselves more of an uphill struggle/future financial difficulties. From homeowners to renters - expected to pay WAY over the odds now for less home than we had and could have improved on in the UK. I am annoyed at how naive I was to let myself be convinced the GTA was untouched by the very nagatives people seem to want to 'escape' from in the UK.
Rarely a day has passed in all my time here that I do not regret the decision I made to come here and put myself in this situation.

dbd33

I don't think people are honest enough about emigration. Typically, it's a bargain in which you give up family, friends, culture (and if going to the GTA scenery and architecture) in exchange for more money. It may be that you want the money for consumer durables or it may be that you want it to buy a better start for your children or you may want it for some other reason but that's the other half of the trade. It makes no sense to me to move to somewhere that doesn't offer that unless the emigrant sees some overwhelming intangible benefit from the new place "I'm hungry but I've lived in NYC", "it's cold here but I've sat at the feet of the Dalai Lama". Suburban Toronto is not such a place.

no good name

I can't even be compensated in the sense that we are better off finacially. We are not. Or that we have the 'old school' reason brits move away for a bigger house, big truck, blah blah.. We have got ourselves stuck in an area where we will have to be comitted to a house - (not even a detached, but a rabbit hutch townhouse) - price more than x6 our current annual combined salary. Madness.

Nor do I even see my kids prospering in any grand way. Yeah they are 'ok' at their new school (aged 7+9). But I maintain the majority of the activities they have done here they could have done back home. (*Note to others out there thinking moving to canada will magically make your kids 'outdoorsy' where they ski every winter weekend and play skateboards every day in summer. They are who they are, and if they sit playing computers all day then thats not the UK's fault. )

dbd33

Technically, yes, the Canadian school system and available social activities did not offer my children anything that is not available in the UK, However, they were better off in Canada in two ways:

- I had more money than I would have had in the UK so, if they wanted to try something, cost was less of a constraint than it would have been in England.

- More importantly. Growing up in England I felt limited in what I could do, I thought of things as being above my station (not literally but I thought of sailing, for example, as something for toffs, not for me). My children, having grown up here, have no concept that there's anything legal they're not supposed to do. They may not be good enough for the team, they may not like whatever it is, but they have no idea of a class system or social constraints.

carcajou

Well, I think that gets to the nut of it. Migration has to be looked at as a cold, hard business deal. I always tell people to approach it like a stock trade - set your exit point before you arrive ("if I don't have a permanent job after 12 months, I will pull the plug" etc) so that if it doesn't work, you don't let the emotion, ego and pride of the moment cloud your judgment and get in the way of leaving a bad deal. "Lifestyle" means nothing without the money to actually be able to access it. For many people the first year is a loss leader that costs a fortune, where you have to go through a period of unemployment in order to find stable employment, repurchase virtually every household item you owned down to the candlestick holders, etc, and do all of this without a human support network around you. It is very naive to think "spirit of adventure" and "positive attitudes" are the primary ingredients of a successful move - both need cash to back them up, and neither cover bills. For a lot of people, and married couples, the stressors and uncertainties migrating brings are enormous and there are marriages that are unable to survive that, enough that I think couples need to undergo a very honest assessment of their relationships and the possible stressors a move might bring first, before taking the plunge.

The odds of a successful long-term migration are at their best when there are both pull factors to the intended country specifically, and also push factors away from the UK, and not just one or the other. By that I mean legitimate push/pull factors, not boredom in the UK, "I don't like Boris Johnson" temper tantrums, or illusions like "moving to Canada will get my kids to be more outdoorsy and put their mobiles down."


Great point.

Unfortunately having read your updates, I do concur with you that you are in a very sticky situation with no obvious exit points now, or at least without exit points that will incur an unacceptably high cost.

I would urge you to seek marriage counseling. It is hard to comment further without knowing why your wife is so attached to staying in GTA or what she finds so appealing about it - is she Canadian and is from there originally, does she have a career that is skyrocketing currently, has she formed a much more dynamic social circle there than in the UK etc.

Good luck.

Dorothy

What an awful situation. I'm sorry you're going through this, and completely understand. Two years into our emigration to Australia I felt exactly how you do now. As much as I wanted to go home I couldn't bear to leave my kids here and my (now ex) husband was adamant that they were not going anywhere.
One day I had to see the GP to have a prescription renewed and while there I told him how miserable I was. We talked about my seeing a therapist to get some clarity on exactly what was at the root of my unhappiness. He also suggested couples sessions so I could express my feelings in a setting where my husband had to listen. Both of these were a huge help.

I've now been in Australia for 13 1/2 years and although my new husband is more than happy to move to Canada with me (I'm Canadian and he's now got a nice shiny PR visa), and our kids are grown, Perth is now home. I do get homesick at times; today my family had a birthday party for my mum's 95th and I would have liked to be there.
Could you access counselling through your benefits? Would your wife go? It could be helpful.

endeavour27

OP - you've certainly initiated an important and thought-provoking conversation although it's sad to see the Canadian experience hasn't worked out in the way you might have hoped. Point taken you feel your situation isn't simply profound homesickness.

There's been a lot of useful commentary about the reasons why to emigrate, people's own experiences, and some sound advice on marriage guidance, etc. But where do * you * go from here? What action will you take? Some suggest it's clear-cut: go back to the UK now. But if this is off the cards for now, what other realisable, time-focused goals can give you some degree of hope and happiness? What steps, say, are needed to go and have a few drinks with your mates in the UK this summer? Also, what new experiences can clear the claustrophobia and help with focus? This forum is a good place to hear other perspectives and it's a positive step you've shared your thoughts. But what else? Maybe set up a Toronto version of the "The London Expat Canadian Meetup Group"? The guys who run it are great and will give you good advice if you're up for it. Finally, yes, don't bottle it up and get some professional help if possible.

I'm sure many will agree there's a community of supportive strangers here who want to share stories and show you're not alone.

Siouxie

There's been meet ups in Toronto and surrounding area with the good folk from our BE Canada forums, I'm sure another could be organised to give a little light relief to the OP.
(there's a fair few Brits who live in Burlington too, if the OP can get that far..)