Even then, at least five of these areas will have some differences between the UK and Canadian systems. I don't see any problem with requiring bridging study, it's making people re-qualify from scratch unnecessarily that causes a problem.


Jeremy

Why couldnt you just admit you were wrong?

Mrs G

I've just looked at U of Toronto and they insist on a social science element and humanities element in addition to the science elements you would expect. It's my guess that this first degree is simply to weed out the number of applicants for dental school, it's of no real relevance. So, taking only the dental part, the UK and Australia's degrees are a year longer.

it shouldn't. It's up to Canada what they do. Just because the UK has to recognise European dentists' qualifications, no reason for Canada (or anyone else) not to pick and choose. I think I'm right in saying there are 4 dental schools in South Africa, the UK will only recognise graduates from 3 of them...so the accepting country needn't even recognise the individual unis if they don't want to. Another example of a school being singled out is Glasgow Uni Vet school which has recently been accredited so their graduates can practise in North America.

I'm not finding enough on fees to make a decent comparison at the moment but from Mr B's experience, it's more a case of dual-citizens, e.g. Indian Candians, going to qualify in Mumbai (paying local fees) and then going back to Canada and trying to practise. At Mr B's recent assessment there was an Indian and an Iraqi who had recently done this, their thinking being it's cheaper for them to pay 2yrs Canadian fees than 4yrs. Of course they may regret that decision in time given the huge competition for these very limited international conversion places - 800 take the exam twice a year, it's valid for 2yrs so at any one time you are up for 30 places against another couple of thousand candidates. The demand is huge.

I really do think "Western" dentists are all much of a muchness (NHS restrictions notwithstanding!! ). The big difference in standards arises between Western trained dentists and those who trained in the developing world. This is not particularly PC but I believe it to be true, and it's borne out by dento-legal cases in the UK. However, 99% of foreign-trained dentists trying to work in Canada are going to be from the developing world which probably explains why the ACFD is so difficult about recognising foreign qualifications. Although I think there should be recognition, there simply isn't the demand for it from Brits/other western-trained dentists. I assume the numbers of these emigrating to North America (intending to practise at some point) must be miniscule.

Biiiiink

Because I wasn't *wrong* - CARE is still just bridging study and doesn't count as being asked to re-qualify.

Unlike the situation with Mr B the dentist.

It seems to me that someone who has a qualification which can't be used in Canada ought not to be regarded as a skilled immigrant (admittedly Mr B is a family migrant so this is not an issue in his case, although it is in others).

Australia has a rule that insists that if your occupation is registrable in Australia, you basically can't migrate unless your qualifications have a reasonable match to the Australian standards and you only need to do some bridging study.

It would seem reasonable for Canada to impose such a rule as well. Although it wouldn't affect accountants or IT practitioners as these occupations are generally not restricted in Canada - it's more related to doctors, dentists, lawyers where government registration is often required to work and it's not simply down to the call of the employer.

Jeremy

Probably all works out the same in the end because as far as I'm aware in the UK and Australia, the first year of dentistry covers a lot of general science.


Interestingly, does the UK have to recognise the qualifications of dentists from the new member states who trained under the old Communist regimes where standards were really nowhere near the West?



I thought if an Indian held a Canadian passport (or naturalised as a Canadian citizen) his Indian citizenship was revoked.


There is clearly a difference in standards between the developed and less developed world. Is this political correctness in action - Canada not wanting to publicly state that some 'foreign' qualifications are equivalent to Canadian while others are clearly not?



That's probably correct. Developing a 'bridging study' program for dentists from the UK/Aus/NZ etc would cost time and money and if the numbers wishing to move are tiny then something like this doesn't work up the priority list *unless* you people at the top of the professional body concerned who are keen on the idea.

Jeremy

A Canadian citizen can come to the UK and apply for the Armed Forces or even Government office.

We are coming to Alberta in August and I'm going to try 'networking' within the nuclear, chemical, and biological hazard assessment and control area's. (I am at the forefront of this within NATO) I have opportunities in NZ, Australia and the US but we want to emigrate to Canada.

We'll see.

A Canadian citizen cannot just 'come to the UK' without an appropriate visa, eg the Ancestry Visa.

As regards employment in the public service, there is a distinction between policy level posts which tend to require British citizenship and other posts which simply require permanent resident status.

Jeremy

Just lie on your resume!! Most people do anyways.

I can confirm this... one long day spent in Ottawa to get my wifes visa.. with an even longer day at croydon one year later...

And then they get fired once they are sussed out. DO NOT LIE ON A RESUME.

Yes it does. All of them. The Scottish Executive announced last week an extra 200 dentists to work in the NHS. They're not opening any more dental schools in Scotland so one would assume we're talking about an influx of new member state dentists here. As far as I'm aware there is not even a language test, any EU dentist can start practising whenever they like. Mr B jokes that they if they've recently escaped from repressive communist regimes they will feel right at home in the NHS.


I don't know. I do know of several families of other nationalities who shuffle passports like a deck of cards every time they travel...must leave country A on that one, enter country B on that one, etc etc. I'm sure many people are at it.


I think so. The only place Canada has a real shortage of dentists is NWT. I believe there was some kind of special dispensation for foreign-trained dentists to practise there until a few years ago, but even that has been revoked. They relied heavily on foreigners, not many Canadians would go up there! For that to happen, and leave NWT with no access to dental services in many places, I can only imagine the standards were not so great. Obviously the examination-only approach wasn't weeding out the dentists who weren't up to standard, it was all written, no practical cavity cutting, crown preparation...etc etc. I think in India for example they train on a bench, not in a real mouth situation... there are huge differences from western dental schools.

Anyway, Mr B is now resigned to it all and looking forward to 2yrs of taking it easy. Like you say, I don't think there are the numbers of western-trained people for anything to change in that regard anytime soon. No-one can accuse Canada of anything improper whilst they apply this policy across the board.

Ho hum!

Biiiiink

To enlist in the UK Armed Forces, all a Commonwealth Country or Former British Dependancy citizen needs to do is supply proof of nationality with a birth certificate. The UK Government will even arrange immigration if one parent is British. (A very good friend from Vancouver, who I'm working with now, had this arranged)

I worked within recruiting and training for the Royal Marines for 2 years, (A service I am still serving in) and was amazed at the number of Australian, Zimbabwean, Canadian, Barbadian and other Carribean recruits we had whose paper trail was a passport and birth certificate.
(We even had two recruits who's security checks highlighted some ambiguities, AFTER they had been attested into the service.)

This, I know, is a fault within the recruiting policies adopted by ALL UK services to keep numbers up. In some area's, it has fallen flat on it's face; In others a resounding success.
(Of the top 25% of recruits going through Royal Marine training in 2002, the vast majority were either Zimbabwean, South African or Australian)

I also know, that as a a current serving NCO I could apply for direct transfer to the NZ Army. But, after nearly 22 years, I'm tired of wearing green.......

If not a British citizen or Right of Abode (or Indefinite Leave to Remain) holder, a visa will be required too.

If one parent is British then the UK government won't usually *need* to arrange immigration. Because a Canadian citizen in this situation would normally either be a British citizen by descent, eligible to register as British, eligible for Right of Abode, or eligible for an Ancestry Visa.


I've heard are getting increasingly keen that Commonwealth and Irish citizens serving in the Armed Forces become naturalised British citizens, especially in officer posts.

And all that said - one must have a visa or be exempt in order work in the UK. A Canadian citizen with no other ties to the UK cannot just move to the UK because he or she feels like it.

Jeremy