+1. I totally agree it's down to area, but I also think it's down to the fact that it was a long time ago that MarylandNed lived in the UK. Certainly now you'd struggle to find a pub that isn't family friendly in the UK, whereas back then it was probably more common.

I couldn't fault the hospital I had my children at (private room, daughter born with disability and the care was tremendous etc), we have a choice of 6 schools for my daughter's secondary education next year (whereas London would be very different), and the parks around here are fine from my limited experience (we're not really a park going kind of family!).

I personally think where we are in the UK offers our children a lot more than Vancouver did, but a bit part of that is that we live in a rural location where they have 1.5 acres and farmland to run around on (so we're the opposite to you with regards to space!), where we don't lock our doors and where there's not a chav in sight. No doubt if we were raising them in a city location I'd feel very differently.

I'm still very interested to know what 'restrictions' Aqua-matt thinks children in the UK face that they wouldn't in Canada (particularly as on reading his post, it appears he doesn't have kids yet), but he's obviously not seen the post yet.

Agree with the child friendly pubs (out of town) and fantastic maternity / post-natal care from the NHS hospitals we used. On the parks and chavs, it really does depend on where you live, but I imagine there is some truth in what MNed's says.

As I had said in the original post "yes Canada may have these as well.....etc etc " so I'm not painting a picture perfect scene of Canadian schooling or child hood.
no, I don't have kids(not sure why that would grant me with special powers of observation)and as already pointed out there's a bit of hearsay within the statement. But from someone /people with experiences of both sides.
again as already brought up, it could well be area dependent and to people's experiences.
so from my
it could be anything from not being able to use a pair of scissors in a primary art class right up to an A-level student( 16-17 old enough to ride a scooter or drive a car) not allowed to use a hammer in tech class .My experience of school was not the best and from what I've heard from younger family members still within the system it's no better, if not worse in that respect.
outside school there's a lack of activities and IMO a decreasing amount of them.maybe this is due to the increasing paperwork having to be filled out in the way of health and safety, risk assessments and checks that need to be done before they can even allow a kid to hold a tennis racket..people just can't be bothered to do it over here .so maybe that's the problem...The people with a can't be arsed attitude.

If this is the same or you feel its the same over there ill retract my statement.
but from my experiences of school and childhood outside , along with the current opinions of those still in school over here and that of my better half who's been in both UK/canadian schools.and various other sources and views..also with what Marylandned has highlighted.

i still stand by , i would not want to bring my kids up in the uk.

I think it does matter if you don't have kids, as You don't have first hand experience, you said yourself it's hearsay. And very peculiar hearsay too! I can't imagine what kind of school wouldn't let kids do those things.

My children have now been to 3 different primary schools in the UK, they've had scissors at all of them, my daughter made me a birdbox for Mothers Day this year (using a hammer at age 9 - incidentally, they have both always had cooking lessons and been taught to use knives from age 6 onwards too).

Between them they do tennis, rugby, football, ballet, swimming, horse riding and free after school clubs such as 'Mad Science' and 'Zumba' (at their primary school they have a choice of 20 after school clubs a week for free or a nominal amount, so I'd disagree that extracurricular activities are 'decreasing' - They could be busy every spare minute if they wanted, doing everything from ice hockey to chess club!).

The only one of their extra-curricular activities I've ever had to sign a waiver form at was horse riding, my son was allowed to pick up a tennis racket at age 4 onwards without any problems!

Consider yourself and your kids lucky then.
For many it's not the case...just because it's not the case for yourself, doesn't mean it doesn't happen, should be discounted or prescribed as peculiar hearsay..

Fair comment.

Peculiar hearsay:
my partner/wife born, raised in Canada moved to the UK after primary education for a "better" education. Both parents and herself have come to the conclusion that it was mistake to move her here.(thankful they did otherwise we wouldn't of met, I have known her since she arrived and through some quite nasty bullying from the TEACHERS and students tried incredibly hard to loose her accent)

Mother in law, currently works within the UK secondary schooling system, administration...described it as a shambles and wonders why half the kids turn out like they do. With teachers themselves lacking in the ability to teach or want to.

Wife's uncle in canada,2 kids currently attending elementary in Coquitlam area, he works as a curriculum course designer(or some long winded title within the education dept)at the Simon fraser Uni,
Recently visited the UK, and was less than impressed with what was on offer in the area and the local schools.. (yes like has been said previously, this could be down to area..so ill state this is the south east/london) even with the recent teachers strikes in BC was thankful of the schooling and the coming together of the community when it was happening...It certainly wouldn't happen here(not in this area anyway)
Also wanted to know what the "teens" were doing hanging around certain areas..."are they waiting for clubs to open?"
No.....I'm afraid that's what they do.

Long time friend, headmistress at a UK primary school,she is from Toronto..half the stuff she has to adhere to over her she wouldn't even dream of even being considered in the Canadian schools she's taught at. as for after school activities non existent, no matter what she attempts to put forward..people don't want to know. to many risks.

my uncle,aunt+kids. moved to NZ 8 years ago,recently came back for a months visit..ready to go back home after a week. Their kids both below 10, active, outgoing and respectful.
when comparing their lives, schooling, activities etc to that of my 2 step brothers of similar age here in the UK, couldn't really contain their disbelief and said it would be cruel to subject their kids to moving back over here..The thought almost laughable.

I will retract my first post, to save any further debates on that. But I will standby what saw in regards to if and when we have kids, they will not be raised in the UK.

Interesting Matt, but the problem is that you are tarring the whole of the UK with the same brush. There are plenty of problems with inner-city schools in London, ditto after school activities. But you have to compare apples with apples. You can't compare Coquitlam to SE London. Many families choose to move out of London when the kids reach school age precisely because getting decent schooling in London is a formidable task. Having said that, there are many many fantastic schools in London and across Britain, the national curriculum is a bit restrictive, but at least it ensures a base level of consistency. There are plenty of people who post on the Canada forum that despite all the merits of living in Canada, they find the schools there quite behind in certain subjects and practices. I am always suspicious when some wanting to emigrates cites the "country is going to the dogs" reason. Never the case, always down to personal circumstances. In which case, it's better to simply state that you think you can do better for yourself in Canada, which may well be true. But how about your GF, after she's put all that hard work into losing her Canadian accent, does she have to regain it again?!

I'm not really tarring the whole UK, I also have consistently said 'area depending' after my first post and agreed with many of the responses on here. think we're dwelling on my first post too much. my bad if it or I came across with a black brush swiping across the UK.. my last posts are merely justifying why I have the opinions and thoughts that I do, should they change which I expect they will. I'll certainly come back and voice them.

overall I think life is what you make of it wherever you are and our reasons for wanting to move to Canada are not solely based on bringing up kids.
her accent for one lol..I'm sure she'll done fine on that one

I think you're having us on. A place where the teachers are on strike necessarily offers a poorer education than one where they are not.

BC leads the western world in teacher's strikes.

Overall, that is simply not backed up by the facts and is therefore likely to be simply anecdotal. If you look at the OECD rankings of how 15 and 16 year olds are doing, Canada consistently beats the UK in all 3 categories of math, reading, and science.

http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings...lume-I-ENG.pdf

Personally, I think the two countries are close enough in terms of education for it not to be a major factor in deciding which country to live in (although there will obviously be local variations in standards).

Canada also has some top class universities (e.g. UofT, McGill, UBC, etc) and university tuition fees in Canada are now a bargain compared to the UK.

I find this statement really irritating. There are many reasons for wanting to move but I really dislike justifying it with slating another country. Especially when you're comparing first world to first world country.

The trouble was Matt you said I would not bring children up in the UK...I can completely understand not wanting to bring children up in a particular part of London but I suspect that could be said for a particular part of Toronto or Vancouver too (not that I am well versed in either place but they are a city so...
And so it's easy to move from where you live than generalise and say the whole of the UK is bad. Hopefully you will choose an area in Canada to live in where you don't encounter what your gf did. I think this is probably the key to feeling smug and like you've made a better choice, but of course you could do that in the UK too..

So kids where you are aren't allowed to pick up a tennis racket? Seriously?! I find that so astonishing that to me, it is peculiar. All 3 schools that my children have been at have had tennis as a standard sport from the age of 4. Ditto scissors etc, so when I say it's 'peculiar', I simply mean that it's definitely not the norm in the UK and must be specific to a particularly namby pamby school.

Fair enough, so it seems it really is just your area. All of the above is completely alien to me, as said above I live in an area with huge amounts of extra curricular activities, where few lock their doors, and where there's a great community spirit. But then it's rural Berkshire, and not London. I wouldn't raise kids in London for all the money in the world either!

And I've chosen to raise mine in the UK rather than Canada. Different strokes for different folks and all that, certainly the life we have here couldn't be bettered in any way in Canada other than skiing more often!

Thread swerve alert: I disagree with that. While the teachers are on strike the pupils learn important life skills like organizing and acting in the community's best interest rather than their own, as well as realizing how inadequate their parents are at such stuff.

After the teachers are on strike, if they are successful in the strike goals, they will be more motivated and professionally secure, thus be better teachers than those who have been downtrodden and demoralized by governments.

Meh.

The hospitals I experienced with my babies were grotty, run down, tatty and cold (winter). Maternity/NICU units in Ontario. No personal experience in the UK, but all of the ones I visited were much better.

Our small city currently has a $300 million infrastructure deficit because it hasn't been kept on top of. The roads are a mess, the sewers are crumbling, and it's getting steadily worse every year. Also in Ontario.

There are lots of extra curricular activities for kids here, mainly put on by private organisations, the city, local library and art gallery, very little at the school except for school teams. They range from free to exorbitant and everything in between. Friends who lived here for a year have told us there was a lot more available in this regard for their children in the UK.

If I wanted to take my children out of school in the UK, then I could be fined. Here, they don't seem to care. My children would likely learn more in the way of critical thinking elsewhere, but we are here, so we'll have to try and teach them that ourselves.

On balance, it's fairly balanced I think. I'd rather move to New Zealand