After reading the thread about poverty in Canada, I thought it would be interesting to hear other people's opinions about the subject.
Personally I think rates of poverty are worse in Canada and frankly, I don't think there's any doubt that people here have further to fall.

Low paid workers in Britain I'm sure are much better off than low paid workers in Canada. I worked for Top Man whilst at university and earned about 3.50 an hour at the time (we're going back a few years). Still, my wages went very far and I could always afford to go pubbing and splash out on new clothes. In Canada however the minimum wage doesn't seem to be survivable, not by a long shot. No doubt this is why so many people here rely on food banks and the like? Something which is unheard of in Britain.

To me, Canada actually seems like quite a poor country. The railways are rickety and underfunded, the highways are potholed and badly maintained and some of the schools in Toronto at least seem to be in terrible shape. Just how accurate are those surveys which rate Canada so highly? Britain seems much wealthier to me.

Are you kidding about the railways? The railways in the U.K are the height of disrepair!! I don't know much about the rest of the country, but the commuter railways running from the suburbs into Toronto are modern clean and always on time!

The highways are potholed because of the harsh winters we get here, I'm sure if they had the same weather in the U.K they wouldn't ever get fixed! The summer is known as the construction season in Canada because that's when all the highway pot holes are fixed.

Also Canada is much more socialist than the U.K, there are security nets like free healthcare, employment insurance, food stamps, government housing etc.

The people you see living on the streets usually have a mental disorder, it's very sad and it's hard to help them if they are determined to live on the streets and can't get work because of their problems.

Maybe in BC or Ontario, but not in Alberta ...

The rail network in the UK is far more comprehensive than Canada and actually quite efficient despite reports by the media which would lead you to believe even India has better railways!

Personally I would say Britain is more socialistic than Canada. Britain spends 24% of it's GDP on health care and social security compared to 17% in Canada. Prescriptions are subsidised in Britain, the minimum wage is higher in real terms and unemployment benefits are more generous. The only socialistic party in Canada is the NDP which has never held power, and the Canadian Conservative Party is far more right wing than the UK Tory Party.

I think you're forgetting 2 words in your comparison.

Population density.

...so?

What does that have to do with it?

Not really rocket science.

The less people you have per volume of land the more space you have. Agreed?

The more land you have, the more space you have to "extract income form it". Agreed.

The more income you have from this extra space, the richer you are. Therefore % spent per capita is as they say here: moot.

Low population in area with huge resources = thrives therefore able to allocate more resources to (e.g.) healthcare

High Population in area of medium resources = huge competition for resources like healthcare.

Agreed?

I think you are taking a very simplistic and uninformed view of things seacreature. To explain why Canada has a higher standard of living than the UK in one or two simple paragraphs, isn't going to happen. It is a complicated subject with a great many factors that have to be understood.

Regarding work and poverty you continually seem to equate living on government handouts in the UK as being a good thing for people. You seem to think that someone living in subsidized council housing in the UK is not as poor as someone who has to pay their own rent in Canada. Try looking at it from another perspective. Someone who cannot pay their own rent must by necessity live in council housing. That's poor! Given that 1 in 5 people in the UK live in council housing what does that say to you? Why are there long waiting lists for council housing in the UK? You think rates of poverty are worse in Canada? You must be kidding.

But the basic problem seems to be that you do not understand the differences in culture between the UK and Canada. In the most simplistic terms I can think of it comes down to this. In the UK people expect the government to take care of them (the Nanny state) while in Canada people are expected to take care of themselves.

In nature the law is survival of the fittest. In civilized societies we temper that by taking care of the ill, the old and children. Like anything however you can go to far. The more socialist a country is the more dependent on handouts people become and the lower the average must fall in everything. Why do UK workers have the lowest productivity rates in Europe for example? The highest numbers of unwed mothers? A yob culture that exists in no other country?

Canada has poor people and poverty as every country does to a greater or lesser degree. The difference is that they have the OPPORTUNITIES to better themselves and the culture leaves it up to them to decide whether to take advantage of those opportunities or not while at the same time making it clear that they are EXPECTED to better themselves and if they don't, they can expect no pity. The UK culture as I see it tells the poor that that is their lot in life and they are stuck with it. Hence you get young people with low self-worth and a yob culture. ie. "My life is the pits, I believe it will always be the pits and so I might as well get pissed to forget about it."

If you cannot see that basic difference in attitude I doubt you will ever see why things are as they are.

I'm not convinced. The 'poor' in the UK -- many of whom are effectively better off for doing nothing than someone on a low wage -- seem to be choosing that lifestyle, not having it forced on them. Short of rape, no-one forces a fourteen year old girl to have a kid so she can get her own flat and dole money... but she'll be a lot better off as a result than getting a minimum-wage job which wouldn't even pay the rent on a similar flat.

Perhaps when you say "Canada" you're thinking of the USA. Canada has a long history of interventionist governments and, as a result, supports large populations through tax revenues. For a start there's the native population, subsidised to live on reserves. Then there's the population of Newfoundland, subsidised to not catch fish. Then there's Quebec.

It may or may not be right for governments to be redistributive but it's quite wrong to suggest that Canada doesn't have a culture of tight regulation and government dependence.

Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics,

According to nationmaster, 17% of the UK pop is below the "poverty line"
12% of the US
(Data from the CIA world factbook)
Canadas not listed, but a google search found this which says in 1999 16.2% of canadians lived under the poverty line.

Stats Canada has those on "low incomes" pegged at about 16% in recent years.

So pretty much the same as the UK.

Sorry to interupt all the speculation with some facts. I'll fetch my hat.

Now, what's the definition of 'poverty line'? Since 'poverty' is a purely subjective term, it's an entirely arbitrary classification which may or may not have any bearing on reality.

I'm not convinced that Canada is significantly better off than the UK, but there are lies, statistics and... entirely artificial statistics.

For once I completely agree with you Seacreature! As much as I love living in Canada and it suits me perfectly but I am not blinkered. For those on the bread-line........they really are on the bread-line here in Canada; this was certainly never the case in the area of England that I used to live in.

I think that contrary to what people still living in the UK think - Canada is actually NOT a cheap place to live once you are here.

Canadas Definition
http://www.ccsd.ca/pubs/2000/fbpov00/chapter2.pdf

UK definition
"Poverty is measured here as below 60 per cent of contemporary median net disposable income " From Oxfam, who estimate the figure closer to 25% of the population

US definition
similar to canada maybe...depends on a bunch of factors.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/pover.../thresh04.html

What's the point of this thread ?