dbd33

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010...ensions-appeal

Jingsamichty

Probably will be the end of it. One of the women in the campaign said something like, "That was the last available legal avenue, so now we'll have to go for public opinion."

I can't imagine that, outside the obviously aggrieved and affected few, public opinion will be too sympathetic.

iaink

"Carson moved to South Africa in the belief that her pension would keep pace with inflation"


Says it all doesnt it? How is her incorrect assumption anyones fault but her own?


I imagine more bleating will continue, and maybe the government, which admits the rules are illogical, will make one rule apply to all at some point in the future, but legally at least it seems the end of the road.

jimf

The government, probably correctly, appears to take the view that spending the money in the UK rather than overseas will be more productive in terms of votes for them.

jimf

Out of interest what would be the position in reverse? ie I am paying into CPP now. Say I eventually retire in UK - would that pension be index linked or frozen at retirement?

Auld Yin

Your CPP is not an indexed pension. It is what it is when you claim it. You buy the pension and earn what your years/amounts of contributions will buy. OAS on the other hand is indexed and IIRC it applies to the entitled living overseas. Someone may be along to correct me.

Auld Yin

I, for one, am in agreement with the decision. I receive a much reduced UK State pension for the few years I worked there before emigrating. I was surprised/appreciative to receive even this and do not believe I'm entitled to have it indexed.

iaink

Tis what it is. I only worked a few years in the UK before coming here, I too dont expect much. However, If I had lived in the UK longer and payed in till I was say 55 and then came to canada, my expectations would likely be different. What suprises me is that people in that position would move without finding out what the situation is first.

What (also) makes no sense is to index link to some places (The US for example), but not to others (most of the commonweath it seems). But logic has nothing to do with this ruling, its simply a legal position, and one that conveniently saves the UK government millions.

jimf

According to Service Canada:

How does the CPP calculate my retirement pension?

Your CPP retirement pension is based on how much, and for how long, you contributed to the Plan [or to both the CPP and the Quebec Pension Plan (QPP)]. The age at which you choose to retire also affects the amount you receive.

The CPP protects your pension by making certain adjustments before calculating 25 percent of the earnings on which you contributed over your working life. For example, some low-earning periods during your career are "dropped out", so they do not reduce the amount of your pension.

The CPP retirement pension is indexed to the Consumer Price Index annually. The average monthly retirement pension (at age 65) in October, 2007 was $481.46

So is it the case that the CPP pension is indexed so that the pension amount for people retiring in that year increases each year, but that once you are retired the pension is fixed?

jimf

I think the UK/USA have some kind of reciprocal agreement to deal with pensions.

It can be argued that those residents aren't paying tax in the UK so why should the UK index their pensions. On the other hand they are not in the UK to burden the NHS etc so the UK benefits from their absence.

The article only seems to mention the basic UK state pension but I wonder if it applies to SERPS based pensions as well.

normanstrongbow

http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/i.../oas.shtml#one

OAS

Full Pension

Usually, if you meet all of the conditions outlined in one of the two categories below, you may qualify for a full pension:

Category 1 -

• You lived in Canada for at least 40 years after turning 18.

6. How is my Old Age Security pension calculated?

The Old Age Security pension is like a large ‘’pie’’ that is divided into 40 equal portions. If you qualify for the "full pension," you are entitled to receive all 40 portions of the pie each month. If you qualify for a "partial pension," you will receive some, but not all, of the 40 portions each month. Whether you qualify for a full or partial pension will depend on how long you've lived in Canada after the age of 18. See below for more details.


13. Will I get cost-of-living increases?

Yes. We will increase your pension payments to reflect any increases in the cost of living as measured by the Consumer Price Index. We make any necessary adjustments every three months – in January, April, July, and October.

Your Old Age Security pension payment will not go down if the cost of living goes down.


2. Am I eligible?

We look at three factors to determine if you can receive the Old Age Security pension: your age, your legal status, and the number of years you have lived in Canada.

If one of the two scenarios listed below describes your situation, you may be eligible to receive the Old Age Security pension.

Scenario 1 - People living in Canada

* You must be 65 years of age or older.
* You must live in Canada and be a Canadian citizen or a legal resident at the time we approve your pension application.
* You must have lived in Canada for at least 10 years after turning 18.

Scenario 2 - People living outside Canada

* You must be 65 years of age or older.
* You must have been a Canadian citizen or a legal resident of Canada the day before you left Canada.
* You must have lived in Canada for at least 20 years after turning 18.

jimf

From Service Canada suggesting CPP payments are index linked?

Can I receive CPP payments outside Canada?

Yes, provided you meet all eligibility conditions, payments are made anywhere in the world.

Do I get cost-of-living increases?

Yes. Your CPP payments are indexed to the cost of living. Payments are adjusted in January, if needed.

Payments will not decrease if the cost of living goes down.

BristolUK

I moved fully aware of the rule. I was aware of it - from listening to people complaining about it - more than 30 years ago.

It wasn't even a factor in the decision I made to move 18 years before my pension age.

I still think it's wrong, though.

I was never bothered about it and I'm even less bothered about it now that the last pension changes mean I'll get a full pension instead of the three-quarter one that was on the cards when I made my decision.

But had it been an American woman I met and fell for rather than a Canadian woman, I'd be qualifying for annual uprating (when the time comes) as a US resident and that shows how potty the system is.

Bali2010

I understand that those who are recieving in it now feel unhappy.
For me, quite a long way off retiring, I don't feel confident there will be a pension, so really it is a theorhetical debate. I consider that our tax is cashflow for current pensions, not a fund for future in practise, given the pension deficits that get mooted.

Edit - already I know would have to work 7 more yrs before a pension, than when I started work (full time) 12 yrs ago. Use of extrapolation (incorrectly of course for effect) could mean another 10-15 yrs on top of that by the time I would actually retire - hence my lack of confidence.

Am not convinced that those of us born after a certain yr weren't warned en mass to not rely on a state pension for income. Means tested benefits would still apply to whatever level was in place at the time.
Can't recall now what route the communication took -might have to check that. It might have been in standard pension guidance when I started working.

dippy

As far as I am concerned if I work and pay for a pension then I am entitled to annual increases irrespective of where I choose to live on retirement. I accept that the decision is made but believe firmly that it isnt reasonable and another example of a government who just doesnt care! Without going into details I'm just a working class guy that has done okay but still has to work..... my income tax bill from all sources is close to £50,000 this year...... I pay 41% tax on the entirety of a pension from a previous employer. Are you really telling me that I havent earned a state retirement pension with a reasonable increase every year? I think I have done my bit as most others have.....