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Just how bad is the UK?

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Old Oct 12th 2006 | 8:03 am
  #166  
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Default Re: Just how bad is the UK?

Originally Posted by Garfielduk
As I am an Accountant I was quite keen to see what the difference in income tax rates were like between the 2 countries and found that someone on £30k here pays an effective rate of around 27% and in Canada someone earning a similar amount would pay around 20%, that's fairly clear cut to me. If you go up a little to say £40k the UK rate is around 25% and the Canada one 22%. It means that the lower earners pay a lot less but as you earn more the gap becomes less because of how the two systems work until of course the 40% uk rate kicks in and then it can go back upto around 30% of gross income and the Canadian one is at 25% for a similar salary. You can see from this that the gap can vary quite a lot (between 3% and 7%) as it depends on exactly how much your salary is.
To do this comparison I assumed £30000 = $60000
Oh BTW this was purely for Ontario province and took account of federal and provincial taxes
Thanks for that - very interesting! Of course, you'll get some along shortly nit picking about stealth and hidden taxes etc; but I think it's swings and roundabouts at the end of the day. All I can say is, what you've explained above definitely 'fits' with our experience. We have more disposable income, for sure!

Is the gap much smaller/non-existant for higher income brackets, though? Say, for example, well over $100k?
 
Old Oct 12th 2006 | 8:07 am
  #167  
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Default Re: Just how bad is the UK?

Originally Posted by Garfielduk
As I am an Accountant I was quite keen to see what the difference in income tax rates were like between the 2 countries and found that someone on £30k here pays an effective rate of around 27% and in Canada someone earning a similar amount would pay around 20%, that's fairly clear cut to me. If you go up a little to say £40k the UK rate is around 25% and the Canada one 22%. It means that the lower earners pay a lot less but as you earn more the gap becomes less because of how the two systems work until of course the 40% uk rate kicks in and then it can go back upto around 30% of gross income and the Canadian one is at 25% for a similar salary. You can see from this that the gap can vary quite a lot (between 3% and 7%) as it depends on exactly how much your salary is.
To do this comparison I assumed £30000 = $60000
Oh BTW this was purely for Ontario province and took account of federal and provincial taxes
This is worthless minutiae though, innit? Apples and bananas.

- the exchange rate can easily swing enough to disrupt the calculation

- direct taxation is a small fraction of overall taxation

- people moving between countries do not usually earn the same amount

- the numbers don't account for the regressive nature of tax in Canada. One you get beyond an income of $100,000 small time tax avoidance is worthwhile, once your income exceeds $500,000 big time tax avoidance is worthwhile. At each milestone the tax rate drops. I expect the same is true in the UK but have lost track

- taxes in different countries pay for different things

- tax breaks in different countries vary, in Canada I've always had deductions for wife, children and mistress, they're not all available in the UK

- customs vary, in the UK wives often work, here they tend not to, so they're deductible

- tax rates don't directly affect quality of life. People give up on Canada because of family issues, the weather, lack of a job or because they couldn't get laid. They don't do so because they had to pay two points more income in the middle band.
 
Old Oct 12th 2006 | 8:07 am
  #168  
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Default Re: Just how bad is the UK?

Originally Posted by Calgal
Thanks for that - very interesting! Of course, you'll get some along shortly nit picking about stealth and hidden taxes etc; but I think it's swings and roundabouts at the end of the day. All I can say is, what you've explained above definitely 'fits' with our experience. We have more disposable income, for sure!

Is the gap much smaller/non-existant for higher income brackets, though? Say, for example, well over $100k?
Its probably greater as you are still paying NICs in the UK long after you max out in Canada.

Not sure if Garfield factored that in or not

Also sales taxes are lower in canada too, although more widely applied.

dbb makes a bunch of valid points I suppose. In the big scheme of things taxes broadly similar, and are neither a deal make or deal breaker, nor should they be.

Last edited by iaink; Oct 12th 2006 at 8:09 am.
 
Old Oct 12th 2006 | 8:09 am
  #169  
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Default Re: Just how bad is the UK?

Oh, and tax rates and things financed vary by province. Quebec, with high taxes, is a good deal if you have lots of small children and can use the state funded daycare. Alberta would be better for a gay couple not planning to adopt.
 
Old Oct 12th 2006 | 8:14 am
  #170  
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Default Re: Just how bad is the UK?

Originally Posted by Calgal
Thanks for that - very interesting! Of course, you'll get some along shortly nit picking about stealth and hidden taxes etc; but I think it's swings and roundabouts at the end of the day. All I can say is, what you've explained above definitely 'fits' with our experience. We have more disposable income, for sure!

Is the gap much smaller/non-existant for higher income brackets, though? Say, for example, well over $100k?
You're dead right dbd is nit picking already, I wonder what accounting qualifications she has ?

And to answer your question $150000 attracts a rate of around 29% effectively and £70000 is 33.5%, £80000 is 34.5%. In actual fact you can ignore the exchange rate scenario really, it is just comparing figures each side of the water and as you can see whether it is £70k or £80k you compare the gap is still there.

Last edited by Garfielduk; Oct 12th 2006 at 8:31 am.
 
Old Oct 12th 2006 | 8:17 am
  #171  
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Default Re: Just how bad is the UK?

Originally Posted by iaink
Its probably greater as you are still paying NICs in the UK long after you max out in Canada.

Not sure if Garfield factored that in or not

Also sales taxes are lower in canada too, although more widely applied.

dbb makes a bunch of valid points I suppose. In the big scheme of things taxes broadly similar, and are neither a deal make or deal breaker, nor should they be.
Just to answer your question Iain, Yes I have factored in NIC maximums.

I am not going to get into the why's and wherfores of other taxes as it was just disposable income I wanted to compare.
 
Old Oct 12th 2006 | 8:20 am
  #172  
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Default Re: Just how bad is the UK?

Originally Posted by Garfielduk
You're dead right dbd is not picking already, I wonder what accounting qualifications she has ?
Nit picking would be finding small details wrong with your calculations. I'm saying the exercise is pointless, one can learn nothing from it and that studying such details reflects an inability to see the wood for the trees. So, yes, I'm not picking.
 
Old Oct 12th 2006 | 8:23 am
  #173  
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Default Re: Just how bad is the UK?

Originally Posted by Tangram
More tax .... ? Are you sure ?
Nope, not really. The only thing i know is that it costs a lot more for petrol in the UK. I was also under the impression that UK vehicles tax are now taxed on the amount of emissions output. Although it's been a while since i taxed a UK vehicle.

I'm not talking about a total of taxes for a "high earner"; just what taxes are involved in owning an SUV, BTW.
 
Old Oct 12th 2006 | 8:24 am
  #174  
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Default Re: Just how bad is the UK?

Originally Posted by dbd33
Nit picking would be finding small details wrong with your calculations. I'm saying the exercise is pointless, one can learn nothing from it and that studying such details reflects an inability to see the wood for the trees. So, yes, I'm not picking.
I'm going to start calling you Nitty Nora because it doesn't matter what members write on these threads you try and find fault with everything and criticise everyone. It's as though it is only your opinion/view that counts; others may well find thecomparison informative, of course as you do not then go and whine about something else.
 
Old Oct 12th 2006 | 8:25 am
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Default Re: Just how bad is the UK?

Originally Posted by dbd33
Alberta would be better for a gay couple not planning to adopt.
LOL!!!!!
 
Old Oct 12th 2006 | 8:27 am
  #176  
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Default Re: Just how bad is the UK?

Originally Posted by Souvenir
LOL!!!!!
Well, taxation wise. That's the problem with looking at the tax code; it sends you to Brokeback Mountain.
 
Old Oct 12th 2006 | 8:29 am
  #177  
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Default Re: Just how bad is the UK?

Originally Posted by dbd33
Alberta would be better for a gay couple not planning to adopt.
Right up until they ran into the wrong sort of Redneck.
 
Old Oct 12th 2006 | 9:20 am
  #178  
 
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Default Re: Just how bad is the UK?

Originally Posted by iaink
Right up until they ran into the wrong sort of Redneck.
Actually you'd be surprised how tolerant we are in the major centers, it's when you go rural it gets a bit scary.:scared::scared:
 
Old Oct 12th 2006 | 9:29 am
  #179  
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Default Re: Just how bad is the UK?

Originally Posted by Garfielduk
You're dead right dbd is nit picking already, I wonder what accounting qualifications she has ?

And to answer your question $150000 attracts a rate of around 29% effectively and £70000 is 33.5%, £80000 is 34.5%. In actual fact you can ignore the exchange rate scenario really, it is just comparing figures each side of the water and as you can see whether it is £70k or £80k you compare the gap is still there.
It looks like you forgot to include your provincial tax rates here. The 29% you quote on that income is the federal rate.

The biggest difference comes in the deductible amounts and the non refundable tax credits (as dbd33 said). I think I just agreed with him on something :scared:
 
Old Oct 12th 2006 | 10:48 am
  #180  
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Default Re: Just how bad is the UK?

Originally Posted by Cowtown
It looks like you forgot to include your provincial tax rates here. The 29% you quote on that income is the federal rate.

The biggest difference comes in the deductible amounts and the non refundable tax credits (as dbd33 said). I think I just agreed with him on something :scared:
Well then you shouldn't agree so easily.

You're obviously not a financial person as you are wrong !

There are 3 bands of federal rates and 3 bands of provincial rates and they kick in at different levels of income and there aint no 29% band

Last edited by Garfielduk; Oct 12th 2006 at 10:52 am.
 


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