Hi,

First of all sorry for the long message. But thought it would be best to include as much as possible to save people the time asking lots of questions.

Me and my partner have been traveling around the world looking for the next place to live for the rest of our lives...well until we get bored and move on again

I'm originally from Edinburgh but have lived in Manchester, London, Birmingham (All UK) and we are currently living in Adelaide, SA at the moment. My partner is from Germany and together we have seen most of the places we considered to be our next place to live, but unfortunately nothing has made us want to stay. We both like Edinburgh so this is still our no.1 choice to go back to (even though I hate the windy conditions) if we can't find anything. But having lived here for over 18-years I need a change.

We are planning on moving back to the UK for a couple of years to save up more money and then go to Canada for a holiday in June 2009 or 2010 - long way away I know but we are still traveling Australia - to check it out. Our first stop will be Halifax, NS then Edmonton, AB and then Surrey, BC. The three choices on our list (and this took 6-months to decide after doing a lot of research).

Could anyone advise me on what these 3 places are like? I know you can never tell unless you go their yourself which is what we will be doing.

We will be in our early 30s by the time we decide to immigrate somewhere so what we are looking for in a city are these things:

- Not too windy: I can't stand it when it's windy neither can my partner. If anyone has been to Edinburgh you'd understand why!

-Nice cafe's (comfortable ones, not the plastic seat type you get all the time). One's with lovely sofa's and a relaxing atmosphere.

-Nice architecture (I know nothing will compare to Edinburgh). NON industrial.

-affordable housing: although by the time we move a lot will change we have already looked into this and seen that Surrey is expensive but not impossible to afford a decent home. And Halifax and Edmonton are both affordable.

-We like walking so parks etc are important, we don't want to walk around and just see sky scrappers

-Relaxing city - nothing like London where everyone is running about and banging into you.

-Friendly people

-Plenty parks and greenery. We love Adelaide for that, there are so many parks and trees here it's great.

-Nice pubs (ones that have sofa's and comfortable seating and a relaxed atmosphere - not your old mans pub or yob style loud ones).

-Good job opportunities in the community sector (mental health nurse and community educator; youth work etc). Hard to answer I know but someone may have an idea

-Things to do. Not galleries and all that rubbish - we are not into that stuff but things like wild life parks, water fall areas, and conservation parks. Plenty cafes and bars, and walks. Don't mind going to all the tourist stuff but i'm sure we will get bored after seeing them a handful of times.

I know people say the weather is rubbish here in winter, which it is but nothing compared to Russia, so that doesn't bother us as long as there are good summers.

Thank you in advance

I love the idea of what you are doing and your plans. I have seen your wish list and have never been to surrey or halifax but I did go to Edmonton once and I am not sure Edmonton will have your list of things you want. Or lets put it this way, I read your list of things and Edmonton did not spring to mind as being suitable.

I think I'd knock Edmonton off your list too

Particularly in reference to your requests for "non-industrial", "greenery" and "nice architecture" (and in fact, in a recent thread of mine, I quoted Calgary as being an architectural wasteland - I suspect this is common in much of north America). There are pockets of nice stuff, and Alberta is currently lush and green and gorgeous - for about another 3 months only.

However, Edmonton is a 3/4 hour drive from some stunning natural beauty. Too far for a day trip methinks, but it is accessible.

Surrey, BC, from my dim memory, was suburbia personified.

Can't speak for Halifax - but others will soon.

In the meantime, what route are you planning to use to immigrate anyway ?

I'd knock Surrey BC off too.
Sounds like Kitsilano in Vancouver would be more suitable.

Hello, Jay-Producer, and welcome to the BE forum.

Please don't apologize. I love it when people give lots of background information. It's so much easier to float out ideas for their consideration.

I've never been to the Atlantic provinces of Canada, so I can't speak for them. The British Columbia coast is good for the type of thing you describe. The Moog, who currently lives in Victoria, BC, and who has lived in Adelaide, has said that Victoria, BC reminds her a bit of Adelaide, while Vancouver reminds her of Melbourne (in very general terms).

Quebec City and Old Montreal have charm. I understand there are some buildings dating back to the 1700s in the Atlantic provinces, and I dare say they are quaint. Otherwise, architecture is not Canada's strong suit.

I don't know where you got the impression that Edmonton was affordable. It's currently rather expensive by Canadian standards.

I don't know why you identified Surrey, in particular, as a potential destination. It's just a suburb of Vancouver. I like Vancouver a lot, so I have nothing against it. I just don't know why, out of Vancouver's numerous suburbs, you've already decided that Surrey would be the one for you.

I see that, while I've been typing, Surrey Expat has suggested Kitsilano in Vancouver. He's dead right. It's expensive, but it's a much better fit in light of your preferences.

Edmonton does have a lovely river valley running through it. It cuts a wide swath of natural space through the city.

Vancouver is magnificent in this respect, and Victoria is good too.

There are quite a few small-ish cities in Canada that would meet this criterion. I dare say there a several on the east coast, such as Halifax, that would qualify. On the west coast, Victoria certainly qualifies.

I've never been to the Atlantic provinces, as I mentioned before, but their friendliness is legendary.

In close to three decades in this country, I've found most Canadians to be friendly (but my personal experience is limited to Central and Western Canada).

As I said before, Vancouver is fabulous in that department.

Hmmm ....... I rarely go into pubs, and I'm not the right person to pass an opinion on this.

Registered nurses are in great demand in Canada. As things stand now, being a registered nurse is an excellent way of getting into Canada. There is a Wiki article on Nursing, and there is a Nursing forum.

I don't know what you mean when you say "community educator." There is no shortage of teachers in Canada, and that's one of the least useful occupations for getting into Canada. On the other hand, if a "community educator" is closer to a social worker, look at these previous discussion threads:

The Alberta Rockies and the whole of British Columbia are fantastic for that sort of thing. But most regions of Canada have national and provincial parks. Vancouver is at least as good as Australian cities when it comes to having large natural spaces within the city. (I've never been to Adelaide, but I'm thinking of Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane by way of comparison.)

Montreal has a great vibe when it comes to this sort of thing. But, unless you're fluent in French, it's not practical to think of living there.

The mild (by Canadian standards) climate of the British Columbia coast lends itself to the sidewalk cafe scene as well.

When it comes to Calgary, it's not the cold that bothers me. It's the length of the winters. BC's Okanagan Valley, has a true four season climate. But spring arrives at least six weeks earlier than it does in Calgary, and autumn arrives at least six weeks later. So summer is three months longer. But the temperatures are very hot in the Okanagan in summer (albeit it's a dry heat). The BC coast has an even milder climate than that from a temperature point of view, but it does get a lot of rain -- more than the UK. Still, the summers on the west coast are gorgeous.

When you return from Australia to the UK, would it be feasible to travel by way of Canada and do a sort of pre-recce?
x

Well once we have visited Canada we will decide if its worthwhile applying for an immigration visa.

What is pre-recce? new terminology to me im afraid. I suspect you mean stop off at Canada on the way home. We have already looked into that and it is very expensive which is why we will go back home (well to England not Scotland) and save up.

Thank you for the information

Thanks everybody for all the info. We will certainly look into that area in Vancouver and compare it to Surrey.

I guess you are all wondering how I concluded Surrey in my final 3 short list. Well I looked at hundreds of data, particularly for weather. So anything that was too cold or too hot, or too windy was taken off my list. And anything that was smog or dirty was also taken off the list. Then I took into consideration, unemployment levels, house prices and crime levels. The last thing I took into consideration was the size and population of the city. Any city too small was taken off the list, although Halifax seemed such a great city even though it is too small for our standards. The density was also a major factor. Anything too crowded was a no no.

I used this site, as well another for weather statistics (taken over 30 years). http://list.canadianbusiness.com/ran...2=3&sc1=4&d1=a

Surrey was added because it was one of the least expensive in Vancouver. And we did not want to live in a city that was over crowded. Vancouver has a high density, meaning it is becoming over crowded.

I have yet to find a good pub in Edmonton. I used to live in the Cotswolds with four pubs on the doorstep but there is nothing even remotely close to that kind of establishment here. The kinds of 'bars' they have in Edmonton are not the sort of places I want to go into as a lady, and although some of the chain restaurants (Earls, Applebees, Kelseys, Brewsters etc.) have bar areas I would happily sit in, I choose not to because you tend to be assaulted by loud music and oversized TVs showing ESPN, wrestling or other sport. And don't get me started on the beer, which is always fizzy and mostly of the lager variety. Although there are a few decent dark ales, they are nothing compared to the delicious bitters, stouts, pale ales etcs you can get back home in the UK. And very expensive too. Edmonton has a place called The Sherlock Holmes Pub, which claims to be English. Yeah, if you like sitting on a stool, eating burger and chips, and watching baseball on the pub telly. What these bars lack most is any kind of pub atmosphere, regular clientele, landlord-chat, or rock of the community-type thing that you can find in the UK.

Sadly, my husband and I tend to drink at home cos it's cheaper and quieter (oh, and you can only get alcohol from special liquor stores and not in supermarkets or petrol stations like at home, and you can't even drink a bottle of wine in a park or other public place without breaking the law - no boozy picnics for us!)

You do realise that applying for Permanent Resident status i.e. an immigration visa take more than five years at the present time.

From the Wiki Quick guide to Canadian Immigration

"During 2006 and 2007, the waiting times for skilled worker visas without pre-arranged employment had grown to 5 - 8 years (depending on the visa posts to which applications had been submitted)."

Pah! Three or four hours is a trip out for milk

I took my MIL on a 895km day trip a couple of weeks ago (Kamloops, Lillooet, Pemberton, Whistler, Vancouver, Fraser Valley, Merritt and home). I eased her into it with an 8hr round trip to Rogers Pass the previous week. She's not been in a rush for more sight seeing trips

Sorry, pre-recce was a term that I just sucked out of the air. Your interpretation was correct, and I can totally understand why it's not feasible.

Look, Jay-Producer, I don't want to knock your methodology, because you are one of the better newcomers that I've seen on this forum. You identified the criteria that were important to you, you did a lot of your own research to come up with a short list of places that might meet your criteria, and you gave us a detailed list of what you wanted. All of that is very helpful to me when I'm responding to someone, and I appreciate it, as I mentioned in my first response to you.

But online research can only take you so far, as you're aware. I mean the fact that you're planning a recce trip demonstrates that you're conscious of how important it is to see a place in real life before deciding.

When you come to Canada on that recce trip, I'm sure you'll see how badly the Internet short-changed you. While Edmonton may look fine in theory, in reality I cannot see it appealing to you -- at least not the way you've described your tastes.

When it comes to Surrey, all that stuff about weather, crime levels, unemployment levels, etc., is somewhat irrelevant, I believe. Surrey is a suburb of Vancouver. There's no guarantee that you'll be able to work as well as live in Surrey. There is a good chance you'll need to commute beyond Surrey for work. Besides that, most of the Greater Vancouver Area's drop-dead-gorgeous parks and natural spaces are outside of Surrey. Even if you were able to find work in Surrey itself, you'd go bonkers if you spent all your time there, as if in a bubble. You'd need to venture beyond Surrey, and then the statistics for the rest of Vancouver's neighbourhoods (traffic levels, crime levels, or whatever) would become relevant.

In the late 1900s I lived in Canterbury, which is a suburb of Melbourne. I loved living in Canterbury, but I also loved Melbourne as a whole. Although there certainly were some amenities available locally in Canterbury, the quality of my life while I lived there definitely was influenced by the quality of life in Melbourne generally.

The way I see it, choosing Surrey in your case would be the equivalent of my having chosen Canterbury as a destination within Australia. That seems nuts to me. I would do it the other way round. I'd choose Melbourne and then, once that was established, I'd choose a neighbourhood within Melbourne.

Anyway, Jay-Producer, all the best with your quest. It'll all sort itself out once you do that recce trip.
x

By the way, Halifax gets whacked by the occasional hurricane, and Vancouver (including Surrey) is in one of the most seismically active parts of Canada, indeed North America. It isn't going to stop me from moving to the BC coast, but you may want to take a look at the map attached to post #31 in the thread entitled Earthquake ponders (Vancouver).
x

Kits isn't even remotely "affordable" - anything worth living in will be at least $1m+. And the architecture isn't particularly inspiring either. Standard Canadian houses with a few ugly concrete apartment blocks thrown in.

Maybe Ottawa?

If architecture is actually an important criterion, forget Canada completely.