How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Dear all,
This is going to be a big move and hopefully a permanent one. How realistic are our expectations and do our plans sound sensible? DH and I are not "city" people. We don't need a vibrant pubs and restaurants scene. Our ideal life would be a nice big house with a large study and a place for everything. A large living room with a nice TV and comfy sofas. Our favourite holidays are camping by a lake or renting a flat by the sea. Weekends we like to relax in the garden reading a book or just go for a long walk in the park. We absolutely love cruising! We like entertaining people at home - need the space to be able to do that. when we moved to the UK 10 yrs ago, we had no friends and family here. Made friends with DDs friends parents, invited them over for dinners, helped out each other with pickups and drops, met on playdates and now some of them mean family to us. We hope to make new friends and great friends there in Canada too.

why are we moving:
- Bigger houses - newer properties with proper insulation and a basement.
- Good universities
- Access to USA universities and jobs for kids
- Better economy and political stability (compared to the UK at the moment)
- Booming financial sector in Toronto
- Better medical facilities
- Parents (they live abroad) can stay longer with supervisas
- New life - new experiences

All this while being able to afford a mortgage free house and investment in 1-2 properties. (see plans below). Sounds like a no-brainer then?

Expectations:

- A nice 2500 sft detached house in a suburb on Go network (Missisauga?).
- Decent IT jobs - 90k perm salary (Senior Business Analyst with 10+ yrs in banking)
- Decent schools
- Reliable after school care

Our plans:
- Sell our UK house
- Liquidate all our investments
- Use all the money to buy a house mortgage free and get 2 smaller properties for investment
- Use our salaries to live a good quality life and invest for retirement

We plan to visit this summer once the PR application is through (for landing). We will visit in winter again too - to get a feel of it.

Given what we want from life , do our plans sound sensible ?

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Expectations:

- A nice 2500 sft detached house in a suburb on Go network (Missisauga?).
- Decent IT jobs - 90k perm salary (Senior Business Analyst with 10+ yrs in banking)
- Decent schools
- Reliable after school care

Our plans:
- Sell our UK house
- Liquidate all our investments
- Use our salaries to live a good quality life and invest for retirement

Yes. That's realistic.

- Use all the money to buy a house mortgage free and get 2 smaller properties for investment

Dunno, ask HGerchikov

- Better medical facilities

I think this is arguable. Every kind of medical facility is available but, to avoid waiting lists, you may have to pay. If you're paying here you have to compare to paying there and there are some good doctors in Harley Street.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Thanks Dbd33

We have no ongoing health problems at the moment (touches wood!). But my kids are germ magnets. they get ear infections, chest infections, atleast 2-3 times a year. We get seen by the GP fairly quickly here. Sometimes emergency appointments too. How does this compare and also emergency services ?

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Why do you think Canada would deliver that? A Canadian passport will not entitle you to cheaper study in American universities and you can't work in America on a Canadian passport without at least some sort of visa.

Having Canadian PR gets you literally nothing in the US, barring maybe a couple less questions at the border.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

I can only directly compare emergency services in Orangeville ON with those in Bexhill-on-Sea. I have recent experience of one instance of each. Astonishingly similar. Same, minimal, wait time, same triage procedure, same signage asking that the staff not be assaulted, same good service from imported doctors. Same complaints from patients that they had to wait too long.

A daughter of mine worked in a trauma unit in Toronto and then emigrated to London where she worked in a trauma unit in central London while her partner commuted out to work in the one in Romford. They reported that it was all very similar "more stabbings, less shootings" in London. Similar to the point that, in both cities, they have problems with patients pushing their IVs outside to spark up the content with street drugs.

I don't know if this is reassuring or alarming. I was advised that for broken backs London would be better and for burns Toronto but that likely changes year by year and one isn't likely to be able to choose the nature of the emergency in any case.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Access in terms of closer to "home", similar educational standards etc? For jobs, I understand Canadians need a visa.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

No worries, I thought that's what you meant. They would need US student visas for any courses longer than six months as well.

The US currently does have exclusive work permit options for Canadians but there's no guarantee that Trump will retain those.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

What was offered at the high school my children attended in Toronto, that I don't think would be available in a state funded school in the UK, was:

- the assumption that the brighter pupils would take the (US) SATs
- arrangements for those exams
- tutoring for those exams
- staff with experience in placement at US schools, scholarship and bursary expertise
- knowledge of sports related placements, a girl from a daughter's class went to Brown on some skating thing

One of my daughters looked seriously at liberal arts colleges in the US, guided by the school, before deciding to go to Halifax. Oddly, she could have had dollars for sailing. Another daughter's husband went to Columbia, an application made at the suggestion of his high school.

In short, Canadian high schools are set up to send students to the US in a way that I don't believe UK ones are. Whether or not packing one's children off to America is a desirable aim is another matter.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Oh wow! That's impressive !

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

It is and it isn't. It's a great opportunity for those students who make the cut I'm sure but it also means that Canada is constantly gearing to send some of its best and brightest directly down to its southern neighbour.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Yes, at a macro level, the Canadian educational system may be said not to provide the best education for every student. However, at a parental level, one is obliged not to give a **** about the other students. Your child has to beat the one bent over his or her books at the counter in the corner shop each evening. That means finding a good school and having documented resume supporting extra-curricula activities. It's no time for relaxation, childhood.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Which reminds me that I once had a physical exam done in Harley St with a very elderly doctor. It was for Canadian immigration about 25 years ago - probably for my PR application. I thought the old boy was going to die before he completed my physical.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

I believe we went to a doctor in Harley Street for that too. It was a hectic day, we got married late in the morning, had the medical in the afternoon and then scurried to the wedding party. Some sort of vehicular failure or collision was involved. The details of that escape me now but I recall there was much shouting, somewhere around Maida Vale.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Good luck with your move.

To answer some of your questions:

DH and I are not "city" people. We don't need a vibrant pubs and restaurants scene

Why then are you thinking Missisauga, it is classed a city ableit noting the second part of your sentence. And not really a city but really one of the largest suburbs in the world. It has been designed to offer what people tell me as a family orientated suburb. Pubs and restuarants are so spread out, that your choice of entertaining at home makes sense.

Bigger houses - newer properties with proper insulation and a basement.

Good luck with that, newer properties these days are put up (very) cheaply. Also not sure what your budget is and if your are looking for a detached property, which I assume you are. Prices here are not the cheapest and then you have to consider property taxes which are based on the value of your property.

Better economy and political stability (compared to the UK at the moment)

Matter of opinion, but yes agree about the UK part especially after speaking to friends recently who are also facing the same concerns. Canada is kinda like Australia, second rate citizen to the US and UK. Things priced much higher. If like me, you stumble on amazon.com and think oh thats cheap, then realise you need to go to amazon.ca and think WTF how much more expensive.
The economy has been driving by resources ie oil which has kinda collapsed now.

Better medical facilities

Again matter of opionion, from chatting to locals and seeing posts on here. Debateable. If you take our private healthcare, no actual private healthcare facilities still need to use the government system. and can face long wait times and also additional costs.

A nice 2500 sft detached house in a suburb on Go network (Missisauga?).

Not sure what your budget is. The Go network is not as good as you think. I live in Meadowvale, on Go network, NW Mississauga. Trains run one way in the morning and one way back from Toronto in the evening, just covering rush hour. A bus to downtown will take around 90 mins. If you want more connected Go network then you would need to look at South Mississauga, but still not cheap for public transport.

Decent IT jobs - 90k perm salary (Senior Business Analyst with 10+ yrs in banking)

90k I would say is not the greatest salary, around that myself, cannot complain but being realistic, and think I would be better off on a higher salary. But if you are mortgage free, just then need to consider the high car insurance.

All this while being able to afford a mortgage free house and investment in 1-2 properties.

As you have not provided any details of your finances. I do hope you are coming over with at least a few million CA dollars to make this happen.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

A small point here is that, when I mentioned paying for medical care, I assumed going to America.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

True about additional costs - crutches, outside of in-patient prescription drugs etc but there are very alarming reports coming out of the UK at the moment.

Having to remain in an ambulance parked outside ER and/or waiting/dying on a bed in a corridor makes the free or cheap prescriptions a tad insignificant.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ll-theresa-may

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...est-ever-level

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Yes I noted and understood that, but a friend is recently is trying to get some surgery done on her feet. Private healthcare with our company but will still be out of pocket as I understand as not a standard operation.

So while i understand the Canadian system is "good", compared to the NHS. Debatable. even though the NHS is now stretched beyond believe but if you have private healthcare then private does mean private. This option does not exist in Canada, as far as I aware unless I missed something.

Private healthcare compared to Australia, the concept while good on paper does not really exist in Canada as for reason it is not deemed fair.

America private health care is great, if
a. you can afford it and
b. it is covered.

If not then you are screwed.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Not read the links, but a recent report from my mum. Dad had to go to emergency on xmas day, she was gobsmacked with the wait time. The amount of drunks who filled up the wards. My Dad spent most of the time shuffled around and then kicked out of a bed as he was not deemed ill enough even though he probably was according to mum, who was an ex nurse.

So completely understand and not saying Canada's system is better, from what I understand. Still quite over loaded, maybe not as much as the NHS but at least private health care does exist in the UK. If you are willing to take it out or are in a company that provides it.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

And going back to the OP: How realistic are our expectations and do our plans sound sensible?

Reading the post and my response. I really hope he has a few million CA$ and if wanting to live in Sauga and work in Toronto understands the reality of the commute and that Sauga may not get them the detached McMansion and the 2 investment properties.

Then again what do I know, as only been here less than a year but figured out enough to question the OP.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

so read the links and basically they sum up my parents experience during xmas. Really sucks, the way the NHS has gone downhill.

Hate to say this but Brexit happened for a reason. People pissed of with EU immigrants abusing the NHS.

EDIT: Not looking for comments on this statement to detract from the OP thread, just my opinion based on my parents experience over xmas with my Dad having a major crisis and my mum so disappointed with the treatment he got.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

I believe that, at one point, I had approximately the life described. Ranch bungalow, halfway between Port Credit and Clarkson GO stations, computer job (manager of database stuff) walking distance from Union. It was a mid-50s house, not a new, one and, imo, way better for that. I didn't like that way of living but I think that life's still attainable if you have a million Canadian in cash. It'll take some searching and compromises; you'll be competing with people who want the lot for a McMansion, not the house, but I think it could be done.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

By doctoring and nursing and cleaning corridors and that sort of thing? Coming over here, taking the jobs we're not qualified for or don't want to do, healing the sick, tending to the dying. Bastards!

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

If I eye rolled any more than I did... my head would fall off.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Exactly. We don't mind paying the additional costs - just want a reasonable level of care.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Budget is CAD 1.5 million in cash - that's absolutely everything we have. Also, we are both under 40, so some mortgage is probably not a bad thing to have. We could take small mortgages for the investment properties if we have to.

Is the commute from Sauga really bad? 50 mins from Lisgar station to Union station + 10mins on either side. That's about 1hour 10 mins door to door - sounds reasonable by my current UK standards. Is there anything I am missing here?

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

I had to google Lisgar. It's not on a line suitable for work in any sort of job without rigid hours. There are few trains. Out there is absolute subdivision hell, it may be that you want a plastic box built to last fifteen years squished against a 1000 other boxes with a view of the neighbor on the toilet and, if so, you're in the right spot. I expect the builder will throw in a grey Asian minivan. If you want a more conventionally affluent lifestyle then you really don't want to be north of the QEW.

This thread, btw, is the first time I've seen Mississauga abbreviated in that manner and I hear people cursing the place 'most every day.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Have you been to Mississauga? It’s the true definition of suburbia. Unless you want to put the $1.5M down as a deposit on a house and find a little bit of what’s remaining of rural Mississauga. Then you’re competing with developers as Dbd33 said

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Might be a dumb question but with that kind of capital immediately available, why not just look into US investment options? You can buy a green card on a million dollars and that would let your kids study at the domestic rates at US universities.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

It was an off the cuff comment, the actually reality is very different but the same sentiment about people wanting change.

Since Brexit got announced how many more immigrants have flocked to the UK! By my accounts of reading the news, it certainly jumped.

Look people also voted for Trump wanting some sort of change. He did play a good game telling people what they wanted to hear.

Scotland had its own referendum, which failed.

Estonia also took things into there own hands.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

The surreal thing with this thread is that we bought the house in Lorne Park and I flogged up and down on the GO train because we had nothing and we wanted to accumulate a million dollars. That worked financially, as it did for the balloonist poster. It's a whole other thing to start with a million dollars and to turn it into a humdrum commuter lifestyle. I don't think I'd move for that, I'd stay at home and buy a Jaguar or a J24.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

The line from Lisgar runs one way in the morning, and only rush hour. Returning from Union, again rush hour and one way.

You then have to consider, the commute when you get to union station as I doubt 10 mins to a job from Union unless you get super lucky.

Finding a house 10 mins from Lisgar with your requirements is doable, but having been around those suburbs. I think you would really need to get on google maps street view to give you a better idea...

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

haha which is why I put my additional comment, so I would hope to avoid the thread being derailed.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

I hope they're hands were good to them but that's a digression too far even for me.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

I have to agree with both of these comments, mainly as I am on the Lisgar line and would not really like to commute to a job in Toronto from here.

As dbd33 says, and I completely agree. Had to take a bus for a few weeks which took me through some of the cookie cutter houses. Certainly was not impression of the Canadian lifestyle. Then again it all really depends on what you want.

With 1.5mCA$, maybe reconsider the areas you are looking at. Port Credit is nice, Oakville slightly further out and on a GO line, albeit you may still have to drive to the station. Caledon has also been recommended to me, but not sure of the commute. My colleague lives in Orangeville, which looks quite nice, North of the GTA and tells me the commute to Union is very doable.
With that sort of cash and a small mortgage, you really do have some options.

Other than than if you are only looking for work in Toronto, and downtown Toronto. Have you considered living North or East of Toronto?

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

I currently live in a 1930s semi-detached fragile shoebox. So, we are immediately attracted to anywhere that has some space. You can already see why I started this thread. I wanted sanity check on my plans (thanks for the inputs! ) We have stars in our eyes for any house that offers space and commutable to jobs.

Which areas would you recommend in the north of QEW? Btw, We both work in the Financial Services IT. Rigid hours?

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Never thought of that. Will look into it. thank you

First thoughts - Can I afford to spend a million on buying a greencard?

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Which areas would you recommend in North or East of Toronto?

Hmm, Ideally, I'd like to get a house within $1M and spend $500k on 2 smaller properties for investment (with a small mortgage on each).

Is that doable anywhere nice and commutable to Toronto? Investment properties need not be in Toronto. I can look into other cities for those.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Honestly cannot comment, as only coming up for a year here.

North: Orangeville and Caledon have been recommended to me. The first, my colleague in the office tells me the commute would be doable, around the hour mark. The latter I cannot comment.

500k on 2 investment properties. mmmm. Condos in Mississauga are really starting around 300 to 400k.

Considering the property market in Canada. Vancouver and Toronto are the property hotspots, not really sure how much gains you would/could make in any other cities. But only time would tell on that.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

I used to commute from north of Shelburne to Boystown. In the morning it was a consistent hour and a quarter (so an hour from Orangeville). Coming back I could sometimes do it in two hours but it routinely took three and sometimes four (all less 15 minutes to Orangeville). That was a lot of time on the road. Note that I have a parking spot in Toronto, if you have to pay to park it can get quite expensive.

I don't think one can be competitive in an IT job if tied to such a limiting commuter schedule. Some negotiation over working at home is possible but that's not the ideal start. The new person should seem committed to the job.

Space, to me, implies both decent sized rooms and a garden in proportion to the house. A snag with subdivision Mississauga is that the houses are built to the lot lines, all the space is indoors. They're built on farm fields so there are no trees or natural features. Maybe outdoor space isn't important to you.

I lived in a solid, well decorated house on a decent lot in Mississauga and moved to a leaky one with a tiny garden in the Beach so we have somewhat different priorities. Something that I got from living in the Beach was independent children, they could work the trams on their own. Suburbs mean giving them a car at the age when they experiment with drink and drugs. I don't think that's a great idea when so much trouble has gone into raising them to that age.

Smaller children would present a different challenge if working so far from home, do you imagine having a nanny?

If I lived north of the QEW in Mississauga...

well, no, I wouldn't do that.

Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto
 

Orangeville is lovely. I was working there until last week. Really loved that little town. It has a quaint feel about it but at the same time it has everything you could need on a day to day basis.
Would I commute to Toronto from there? Absolutely not. Way too far... Factor in traffic and snow and you'd spend as long on your commute (there and back) as you would actually at work.

What about north or Vaughan somewhere? King has some lovely areas which should be affordable with that kind of budget. With the new TTC line coming in to Vaughan maybe it's doable?

Just remember to weigh up home life and quality of life vs work. It might seem a doddle to do the commute for a short while but it's an expensive mistake if you have to sell up...