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How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

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Old Jan 11th 2018, 12:00 pm
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Default How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

Dear all,
This is going to be a big move and hopefully a permanent one. How realistic are our expectations and do our plans sound sensible? DH and I are not "city" people. We don't need a vibrant pubs and restaurants scene. Our ideal life would be a nice big house with a large study and a place for everything. A large living room with a nice TV and comfy sofas. Our favourite holidays are camping by a lake or renting a flat by the sea. Weekends we like to relax in the garden reading a book or just go for a long walk in the park. We absolutely love cruising! We like entertaining people at home - need the space to be able to do that. when we moved to the UK 10 yrs ago, we had no friends and family here. Made friends with DDs friends parents, invited them over for dinners, helped out each other with pickups and drops, met on playdates and now some of them mean family to us. We hope to make new friends and great friends there in Canada too.

why are we moving:
- Bigger houses - newer properties with proper insulation and a basement.
- Good universities
- Access to USA universities and jobs for kids
- Better economy and political stability (compared to the UK at the moment)
- Booming financial sector in Toronto
- Better medical facilities
- Parents (they live abroad) can stay longer with supervisas
- New life - new experiences

All this while being able to afford a mortgage free house and investment in 1-2 properties. (see plans below). Sounds like a no-brainer then?

Expectations:

- A nice 2500 sft detached house in a suburb on Go network (Missisauga?).
- Decent IT jobs - 90k perm salary (Senior Business Analyst with 10+ yrs in banking)
- Decent schools
- Reliable after school care

Our plans:
- Sell our UK house
- Liquidate all our investments
- Use all the money to buy a house mortgage free and get 2 smaller properties for investment
- Use our salaries to live a good quality life and invest for retirement

We plan to visit this summer once the PR application is through (for landing). We will visit in winter again too - to get a feel of it.

Given what we want from life , do our plans sound sensible ?

Last edited by Winterdiva; Jan 11th 2018 at 12:09 pm.
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Old Jan 11th 2018, 12:47 pm
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Default Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

Expectations:

- A nice 2500 sft detached house in a suburb on Go network (Missisauga?).
- Decent IT jobs - 90k perm salary (Senior Business Analyst with 10+ yrs in banking)
- Decent schools
- Reliable after school care

Our plans:
- Sell our UK house
- Liquidate all our investments
- Use our salaries to live a good quality life and invest for retirement

Yes. That's realistic.

- Use all the money to buy a house mortgage free and get 2 smaller properties for investment

Dunno, ask HGerchikov

- Better medical facilities

I think this is arguable. Every kind of medical facility is available but, to avoid waiting lists, you may have to pay. If you're paying here you have to compare to paying there and there are some good doctors in Harley Street.

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Old Jan 11th 2018, 12:55 pm
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Default Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post

- Better medical facilities

I think this is arguable. Every kind of medical facility is available but, to avoid waiting lists, you may have to pay. If you're paying here you have to compare to paying there and there are some good doctors in Harley Street.
Thanks Dbd33

We have no ongoing health problems at the moment (touches wood!). But my kids are germ magnets. they get ear infections, chest infections, atleast 2-3 times a year. We get seen by the GP fairly quickly here. Sometimes emergency appointments too. How does this compare and also emergency services ?
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Old Jan 11th 2018, 12:57 pm
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Default Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

Originally Posted by Winterdiva View Post
 
- Access to USA universities and jobs for kids

Why do you think Canada would deliver that? A Canadian passport will not entitle you to cheaper study in American universities and you can't work in America on a Canadian passport without at least some sort of visa.

Having Canadian PR gets you literally nothing in the US, barring maybe a couple less questions at the border.
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Old Jan 11th 2018, 1:09 pm
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Default Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

Originally Posted by Winterdiva View Post
Thanks Dbd33

We have no ongoing health problems at the moment (touches wood!). But my kids are germ magnets. they get ear infections, chest infections, atleast 2-3 times a year. We get seen by the GP fairly quickly here. Sometimes emergency appointments too. How does this compare and also emergency services ?
I can only directly compare emergency services in Orangeville ON with those in Bexhill-on-Sea. I have recent experience of one instance of each. Astonishingly similar. Same, minimal, wait time, same triage procedure, same signage asking that the staff not be assaulted, same good service from imported doctors. Same complaints from patients that they had to wait too long.

A daughter of mine worked in a trauma unit in Toronto and then emigrated to London where she worked in a trauma unit in central London while her partner commuted out to work in the one in Romford. They reported that it was all very similar "more stabbings, less shootings" in London. Similar to the point that, in both cities, they have problems with patients pushing their IVs outside to spark up the content with street drugs.

I don't know if this is reassuring or alarming. I was advised that for broken backs London would be better and for burns Toronto but that likely changes year by year and one isn't likely to be able to choose the nature of the emergency in any case.
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Old Jan 11th 2018, 1:15 pm
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Default Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Why do you think Canada would deliver that? A Canadian passport will not entitle you to cheaper study in American universities and you can't work in America on a Canadian passport without at least some sort of visa.

Having Canadian PR gets you literally nothing in the US, barring maybe a couple less questions at the border.
Access in terms of closer to "home", similar educational standards etc? For jobs, I understand Canadians need a visa.
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Old Jan 11th 2018, 1:18 pm
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Default Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

Originally Posted by Winterdiva View Post
Access in terms of closer to "home", similar educational standards etc? For jobs, I understand Canadians need a visa.
No worries, I thought that's what you meant. They would need US student visas for any courses longer than six months as well.

The US currently does have exclusive work permit options for Canadians but there's no guarantee that Trump will retain those.
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Old Jan 11th 2018, 1:18 pm
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Default Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Why do you think Canada would deliver that?
What was offered at the high school my children attended in Toronto, that I don't think would be available in a state funded school in the UK, was:

- the assumption that the brighter pupils would take the (US) SATs
- arrangements for those exams
- tutoring for those exams
- staff with experience in placement at US schools, scholarship and bursary expertise
- knowledge of sports related placements, a girl from a daughter's class went to Brown on some skating thing

One of my daughters looked seriously at liberal arts colleges in the US, guided by the school, before deciding to go to Halifax. Oddly, she could have had dollars for sailing. Another daughter's husband went to Columbia, an application made at the suggestion of his high school.

In short, Canadian high schools are set up to send students to the US in a way that I don't believe UK ones are. Whether or not packing one's children off to America is a desirable aim is another matter.
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Old Jan 11th 2018, 1:20 pm
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Default Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
What was offered at the high school my children attended in Toronto, that I don't think would be available in a state funded school in the UK, was:

- the assumption that the brighter pupils would take the (US) SATs
- arrangements for those exams
- tutoring for those exams
- staff with experience in placement at US schools, scholarship and bursary expertise
- knowledge of sports related placements, a girl from a daughter's class went to Brown on some skating thing

One of my daughters looked seriously at liberal arts colleges in the US, guided by the school, before deciding to go to Halifax. Oddly, she could have had dollars for sailing. Another daughter's husband went to Columbia, an application made at the suggestion of his high school.

In short, Canadian high schools are set up to send students to the US in a way that I don't believe UK ones are. Whether or not packing one's children off to America is a desirable aim is another matter.
Oh wow! That's impressive !
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Old Jan 11th 2018, 1:22 pm
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Default Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

Originally Posted by Winterdiva View Post
Oh wow! That's impressive !
It is and it isn't. It's a great opportunity for those students who make the cut I'm sure but it also means that Canada is constantly gearing to send some of its best and brightest directly down to its southern neighbour.
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Old Jan 11th 2018, 1:31 pm
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Default Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
It is and it isn't. It's a great opportunity for those students who make the cut I'm sure but it also means that Canada is constantly gearing to send some of its best and brightest directly down to its southern neighbour.
Yes, at a macro level, the Canadian educational system may be said not to provide the best education for every student. However, at a parental level, one is obliged not to give a **** about the other students. Your child has to beat the one bent over his or her books at the counter in the corner shop each evening. That means finding a good school and having documented resume supporting extra-curricula activities. It's no time for relaxation, childhood.
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Old Jan 11th 2018, 10:51 pm
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Default Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
If you're paying here you have to compare to paying there and there are some good doctors in Harley Street.
Which reminds me that I once had a physical exam done in Harley St with a very elderly doctor. It was for Canadian immigration about 25 years ago - probably for my PR application. I thought the old boy was going to die before he completed my physical.
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Old Jan 11th 2018, 11:04 pm
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Default Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

Originally Posted by MarylandNed View Post
Which reminds me that I once had a physical exam done in Harley St with a very elderly doctor. It was for Canadian immigration about 25 years ago - probably for my PR application. I thought the old boy was going to die before he completed my physical.
I believe we went to a doctor in Harley Street for that too. It was a hectic day, we got married late in the morning, had the medical in the afternoon and then scurried to the wedding party. Some sort of vehicular failure or collision was involved. The details of that escape me now but I recall there was much shouting, somewhere around Maida Vale.
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Old Jan 12th 2018, 12:18 am
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Default Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

Good luck with your move.

To answer some of your questions:

DH and I are not "city" people. We don't need a vibrant pubs and restaurants scene

Why then are you thinking Missisauga, it is classed a city ableit noting the second part of your sentence. And not really a city but really one of the largest suburbs in the world. It has been designed to offer what people tell me as a family orientated suburb. Pubs and restuarants are so spread out, that your choice of entertaining at home makes sense.

Bigger houses - newer properties with proper insulation and a basement.

Good luck with that, newer properties these days are put up (very) cheaply. Also not sure what your budget is and if your are looking for a detached property, which I assume you are. Prices here are not the cheapest and then you have to consider property taxes which are based on the value of your property.

Better economy and political stability (compared to the UK at the moment)

Matter of opinion, but yes agree about the UK part especially after speaking to friends recently who are also facing the same concerns. Canada is kinda like Australia, second rate citizen to the US and UK. Things priced much higher. If like me, you stumble on amazon.com and think oh thats cheap, then realise you need to go to amazon.ca and think WTF how much more expensive.
The economy has been driving by resources ie oil which has kinda collapsed now.

Better medical facilities

Again matter of opionion, from chatting to locals and seeing posts on here. Debateable. If you take our private healthcare, no actual private healthcare facilities still need to use the government system. and can face long wait times and also additional costs.

A nice 2500 sft detached house in a suburb on Go network (Missisauga?).

Not sure what your budget is. The Go network is not as good as you think. I live in Meadowvale, on Go network, NW Mississauga. Trains run one way in the morning and one way back from Toronto in the evening, just covering rush hour. A bus to downtown will take around 90 mins. If you want more connected Go network then you would need to look at South Mississauga, but still not cheap for public transport.

Decent IT jobs - 90k perm salary (Senior Business Analyst with 10+ yrs in banking)

90k I would say is not the greatest salary, around that myself, cannot complain but being realistic, and think I would be better off on a higher salary. But if you are mortgage free, just then need to consider the high car insurance.

All this while being able to afford a mortgage free house and investment in 1-2 properties.

As you have not provided any details of your finances. I do hope you are coming over with at least a few million CA dollars to make this happen.
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Old Jan 12th 2018, 12:27 am
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Default Re: How realistic are my expectations? London to Toronto

Originally Posted by evets View Post
Good luck with your move.

To answer some of your questions:

DH and I are not "city" people. We don't need a vibrant pubs and restaurants scene

Why then are you thinking Missisauga, it is classed a city ableit noting the second part of your sentence. And not really a city but really one of the largest suburbs in the world. It has been designed to offer what people tell me as a family orientated suburb. Pubs and restuarants are so spread out, that your choice of entertaining at home makes sense.

Bigger houses - newer properties with proper insulation and a basement.

Good luck with that, newer properties these days are put up (very) cheaply. Also not sure what your budget is and if your are looking for a detached property, which I assume you are. Prices here are not the cheapest and then you have to consider property taxes which are based on the value of your property.

Better economy and political stability (compared to the UK at the moment)

Matter of opinion, but yes agree about the UK part especially after speaking to friends recently who are also facing the same concerns. Canada is kinda like Australia, second rate citizen to the US and UK. Things priced much higher. If like me, you stumble on amazon.com and think oh thats cheap, then realise you need to go to amazon.ca and think WTF how much more expensive.
The economy has been driving by resources ie oil which has kinda collapsed now.

Better medical facilities

Again matter of opionion, from chatting to locals and seeing posts on here. Debateable. If you take our private healthcare, no actual private healthcare facilities still need to use the government system. and can face long wait times and also additional costs.

A nice 2500 sft detached house in a suburb on Go network (Missisauga?).

Not sure what your budget is. The Go network is not as good as you think. I live in Meadowvale, on Go network, NW Mississauga. Trains run one way in the morning and one way back from Toronto in the evening, just covering rush hour. A bus to downtown will take around 90 mins. If you want more connected Go network then you would need to look at South Mississauga, but still not cheap for public transport.

Decent IT jobs - 90k perm salary (Senior Business Analyst with 10+ yrs in banking)

90k I would say is not the greatest salary, around that myself, cannot complain but being realistic, and think I would be better off on a higher salary. But if you are mortgage free, just then need to consider the high car insurance.

All this while being able to afford a mortgage free house and investment in 1-2 properties.

As you have not provided any details of your finances. I do hope you are coming over with at least a few million CA dollars to make this happen.
A small point here is that, when I mentioned paying for medical care, I assumed going to America.
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