Good heavens. How long have you been retired??? Who do you think advises on social policy????? Who is consulted when changes are proposed? Who sits on working parties? Who is asked to contribute to educational training in the field? Social workers. Ever attended a conference and talked to the politicians about this stuff? Ever met those who meet/teach/work in the international field and exchange policy? Who works on the front lines with the policies that work/don't work? Who lobbies for changes? Remember Matthew Vaudreille? Gove Report? C'mon Ocean, sometimes you (like me) are just plain wrong. The BC CFCS Act and the Ontario Act were based on the UK Children's Act....sorry to disappoint you!

Your comment on "facts" is valid. However, views that are backed up by objective independent reports and statistics are a lot more weighty that opinions that flow from nothing more than an anecdote or two.

Amerindians are immigrants too then. Their ancestors crossed what now is the Bering Strait. How many generations does it take before one is no longer considered an immigrant?

Here in deepest, darkest Devon, they expect you to have at least two generations in the graveyard before they will even consider calling you local.

Nice to hear Devon takes the long term view.

The Normans arrived in the UK almost a thousand years ago. I knew someone from Norfolk who could trace her family back to pre-Norman times - same family living in the same village for a thousand years.

[QUOTE=oceanMDX]How many generations does it take before one is no longer considered an immigrant?[QUOTE]

Depends where you are and which perspective you're taking.

Are you someone whose european family arrived in Calgary at the turn of the century complaining about recent non-european immigrants?

Are you a new immigrant from Europe to Calgary looking at a city that's younger than the first house they owned and having the thought "those people are doing well considering thier family hasn't been here that long, they're not that different from me".

Europeans just take the longer view of life - no matter where they are born, my grandchildren will have the right to claim British citizenship. Maybe by then the pendulum will have swung the other way and it will be a good place to live again, who knows?

There are no objective statistics. I taught statistics at University and my wife is a chartered accountant - we both have scientific backgrounds - exactly what do you want the statistics to say, will you let me select the sample population to run my test on and will you let me write the questions to get the answer I want? Statistics are all perspective and spin, don't ever believe any of them unless you see the math behind them and know how to interpret it.

There's a good book called "Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics" - it devotes a whole chapter to manipulative use of the term average - how often do statistics explain if they're talking about the arithmetical average, the median or the mean?

That is absolute "rubbage" - the amerindians may have crossed the Bering Straits to discover North America - how can they be considered immigrants when there was no one here before them?

Second, I'm a "product" of immigrant parent/grandparents. Not in the slightest way do I consider myself an "immigrant" - I may be a "child of immigrants" but am Canadian through and through with European ancestors who came to Canada from Ireland/Poland before ww2 for a better life. My background was not an issue in school - in fact, I'm not sure that it's even legal to inquire regarding someone's background. My curriculum vitae does not even discuss my bloodline.

My parents/grandparents adapted to Canadian ways very well and once they got their citizenship never looked back - of course, there was still talk of the "old country" and many traditions (i.e., perogies, cabbage rolls, etc)....but my parents have completely made their life Canadian.

I'm not in any way suggesting that "old traditions" should be changed for the Canadian way - otherwise think of the crummy chinese food we would get - but at some point you have to look forward to your new life in the new country.

Oh heavens yes, social workers can lobby all they want - anyone can. That doesn't mean at the end of the day they get what they want. Welfare cuts are country-wide in Canada, and these spending cuts were hardly what social workers have lobbied for over the years. Politicians did what they thought they had to do.

I've personally lobbied the Government of Alberta in the past and was successful in my efforts regarding the regulations of my profession - despite the objections of my profession. I was personally thanked by the former Minister of Professions and Occupations as well as the former Solicitor General of Alberta represented by The Hon. Dave King and Neil Crawford respectively. The Hon. Neil Crawford send me a letter of thank you for my input on the issues. Years later, I attended a private meeting with Stockwell Day when he was a Minister of the Government of Alberta. So yes, I do know something about lobbying government since I was involved with it.

Now regarding the Gove Report. The child's name was Matthew Vaudreuil. He died partly because social workers failed him. Recommended changes to the Child, Youth, and Family Advocacy Act flowed from the report of the Gove Inquiry into child protection in British Columbia, and not from some law in the UK. You were saying?

I was making a rhetorical statement. I don't consider Amerindians - or anyone else who was born in Canada - to be immigrants here.

immigrant

\Im"mi*grant\, n. [L. immigrans, p. pr. of immigrare to go into: cf. F. immigrant. See Immigrate.] One who immigrates; one who comes to a country for the purpose of permanent residence; -- correlative of emigrant.

Ref; Websters

Therefore, only first generations can be immigrants?!

Yes, in accordance with the dictionary definition.

I thought you said that the government in Canada didn't listen to it's citizens?

[QUOTE=Willmore]Not in the slightest way do I consider myself an "immigrant"[QUOTE]
And there is no reason why you should, Canada is your home country, you were born here.

I'm not legally Canadian yet, but I still consider it home.

When I am legally Canadian, I'll rip anyone's head off who ever tries to gve me a hard time for being an immigrant - I'll have a bit of paper that says I'm a Canadian citizen with equal rights to any other Canadian citizen and I've got no intention of taking any crap of anyone whose family has been here one or two generations longer than mine.

The view that everyone isn't more than one or two generations past immigration and by the standards of the older bits of europe still immigrants, is simply the best way to for a new immigrant to get thier head round the resistance of the system to immigrants.

I'd be stunned if anyone born in Canada agreed with me on that one, I'd also be surprised if someone born here could really get into the head of a new immigrant.

It doesn't take three generations in Canada to become integrated, it took me three years to start to feel that way.

[QUOTE=Willmore]at some point you have to look forward to your new life in the new country.[QUOTE]
The sooner you can get into that frame of mind and start challenging your new life, the faster you get settled and the faster you get on.

One you get there, life in Canada starts to be fun - you stop worrying about the differences and start enjoying them!

Yes, as defined by the dictionary - but I have found in life that not everything is "black and white", but it's inappropriate for 2nd generation of kids to be defined as immigrants - when born and raised in Canada.

Well, so....everything falls into place now....you taught "stats" at university - my most hated class for 4 years running.....talk about taking all the "fun" out of university...having to actually do some hard work to even begin to understand the damn course.....now I understand why you're so sensible and logical (except about chocolate mind you)....a stats' prof (ugh!!!!!!)

Often they don't, but when you can prove that your stand is right and in the interest of the larger public, they sometimes do.

One of the reasons fewer people are voting in Canada, is because so many don't believe that the politicians will keep their promises. If politicians don't feel bound by what they promise, does it make a lot of sense to vote in the first place?

When my kids get thier citizenship next year, I'll flatten anyone who even suggests they are at a disadvantage by not being born here - they're both going to play in the NHL AND win the Nobel prize for peace.

[QUOTE=willmore]you taught "stats" at university[QUOTE]
Stats can provide you with many skills useful for future life. We were called to our kids school to discuss performance and a possible coding - we pulled the coding definitions from the board of education website and talked them in circles for over an hour. It was fun. Don't ever pick on a chartered accountant and a systems engineer if you haven't read your own regulations ...

[QUOTE=oceanMDX]If politicians don't feel bound by what they promise, does it make a lot of sense to vote in the first place?[QUOTE]
That seems to be a global issue.

There was a time when english management methods had a reputation as being based on "Command and Control" which originated from the class system where subordinates were supposed to obey orders without question.

This approach doesn't work in Canada which may explain the reason behind the "Canadian Experience" requirement.