willmore

The scholarships I was referring to were not only province/federal - but the university (although true federally funded) grants many scholarships to bright students - many intended for students who have "more than the ability for further education, but the parents don't have the resources to assist. but not only scholarships but grants for athletics, community work, etc, etc. There are also loans that students may apply for. I totally disagree with you.....it's important to utilize these scholarships/grants if and when available, especially when the money is there for the taking... you better believe that if you don't other parents will grab the opportunity....and why shouldn't they......isn't the future of our children the most important part of life.....they are indeed the future generation.\

Glaswegian

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. By "state" I was meaning exactly the same as you were.

Glaswegian

This is exactly what I'm saying - I'm not relying on a scholarship - just trying to figure out how to improve our chances while we have time to advance plan.

The future of our children is basically what started this whole thread!

willmore

I would sincerely (in my own naive way) that each and every child would be assessed by their merit/ability....because really by the time your kids get the age of university - they will have been in Canada for a good long time.

The other question would be : other than the obvious money & grades, what will help obtain a university place and a scholarship? Remembering that we have plenty advance planning time. Those of you who have already reached this stage - what else would you do knowing what you now know?

I can only help you with this - I recently assisted my 2 nieces with their applications for SFU/UBC. The universities were not only looking for ability/merit BUT community involvement from a young age had a heavy weight in the assessment process. Lots of competition for each and every space these days....especially with the universities being cut back in funding from the govt and so are really promoting for international students. Now they claim that they aren't taking up a space for a Canadian student.....but the question remains? Especially when you hear that about 70% of the spaces for medical school (where my one niece) is headed next September are taken by international students.By the time our kids get to university....I just wonder how impossible it will be to get in at all

Just to clear up another issue - we are not homesick in Canada! Just looking to get my career back to where it was before we left the UK - going back to the UK to get that is NOT an option.

We have had a few PMs asking if we are heading back to the UK - thanks for your concerns. Just to let everyone know, we are staying in Canada and outside the work issue, life is good.[/QUOTE]

Glaswegian

We've heard the same thing about community involvment?

Any idea what it means?

Is doing charity work on par with captaining the local hockey team?

squarepants

Hmmmmm......you seem to have got me all wrong here, we all know what grants/scholarships/handouts whatever you want to call it, are there for, but they don't always go to the right people.

Jobs are there for the taking too, but what happens? People in positions of hiring, abuse the system, and let all their friends and families know about it first, and do favours to people they know.

The future of our kid/kids is paramount, but it doesn't mean we should have more than we can afford in the first place, and expect others to take care of our responsibilities.

Glaswegian

Unfortunately babies don't come with owner's manuals - you don't know how much the little buggers will really cost you until they're out of diapers

You've painted an accurate picture of how jobs get handed out over here - I suspect it will be the same with scholarships.

squarepants

You are right, babies don't come with manuals, but surely when we are thinking of having kids, we are not just thinking of the present, but the future as well, and how expensive things are going to be at that time, and considering our financial situation, will it be viable to have another kid?

I mean hockey practice and gear, skating classes, swimming, soccer practice, books, school trips, video games, where do I stop? Oh...not forgetting the mortgage and other bills, you can kiss your foreign vacations goodbye.

willmore

Do you live in the "real world"? That type of "thing" goes on in everyday life (in every country)....its' called living in a "democratic society" - in a perfect world.....everyone would live in perfect harmony, no one would need assistance (i.e., welfare, foodbanks, etc), everyone would get the job that they wanted.

Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world and I see no reason that "working class parents" who have talented kids who are certainly university material......cannot apply for the "funds' that are available to assist their kids in preparing for a better future for themselves and their families. How dare you tell these people that to take advantage of this.... they are expecting the govt to "assume their responsibilities"? and there is no shame is applying for these funds? It's called "life"

I can give you a perfect example....my dad/parents came from Poland and settled in Winnipeg for a "better life". They were definitely "working class people" (my grandfather an engineer)...they scrimped and save all their lives to be able to send their 2 sons to university and in fact they did - with a little (not much) help from the govt in the form of a subsidy to help them. These 2 men were the first in the entire family to get university degrees and went on to make a very very good living for their families.They were then able to send their own kids to university (for more than 1 degree in some cases)


You really need to re-think your attitude - university is no longer a luxury - it's a necessity of life now and in the future. If I had to I would go out and beg on the street for the chance to send my 2 kids to university. Fortunately, we make a good living and hopefully if the cost of university has gone completely out of range of everyone except the very rich - we have prepared for the future of our kids - but if the time comes and we need to, we will use every avenue we can to get to university.

squarepants

This is just my opinion on the issue, you don't have to be rude to me, if you don't like my thoughts on the matter, ignore it, please ! If you think university is a neccesity nowadays, good for you. Am a graduate from the UK, so just you know, and from what I have had to go through since coming here, trying to get a job, I will encourage people to go into a trade, before mentioning university.

Those in the trade professions, make more money in a year than most graduates from what have seen, and just to give you an example, most of the people I work with, only have college ( not university ) diplomas, and earn more than I do, and it just happens that most of them know each other via friends and families.

Whenever you ask how they got the job, it always comes back to the same thing. If you want to send your kids to university, be ready to fork out the cash for the 4yrs course, it's your responsibility.

Glaswegian

Everyone has a right to their opinion and everybody else has a right to disagree with it.

A degree (college or university) doesn't guarantee you a well paid job - attitude, ability and contacts do that for you.

People who have trade qualifications have worked just as hard to get them - it's a long hard slog to get them - I've known people who gave up on that too.

My generation was the first in my family to get to university too - we've gone from being manual to professional workers in one generation. All my degree gave me was a foot in the door and extra points for my PR application.

When you get around to having kids you'll understand the concerns they generate - I don't expect anyone else to take responsibility for getting my kids through university, I don't want to rely on anyone to look after them.

The original questions weren't about who should take responsibility - UK taxes are so high because the state pays for people to go to university as an alternative to unemployment. I'd hate Canada to turn into another UK.

We were asking about how the system works - your income takes a hit when you emigrate and until you become "Canadianised", it can be tough to get a job. Life brightened up a lot this week when I had a chat with my boss - up until then I had pretty much concluded that I had trashed my previously successful career, but I had done it to get my kids a better life.

Deep down it's probably a worry for a lot of new immigrants that the next generation won't be Canadian enough to make it either - horror of horrors they might even give up and head back to a home they probably didn't ever know.

Kids take a long time to mature - you'd be amazed how much successive changes of government can trash your plans

squarepants

Glaswegian,

This is it, I think because of some things I said there, some people will come to the conclusion that am not a parent. As a matter of fact, we have a daughter, and I know how it stings our pocket when it comes to swimming classes, brownies, and others that I mentioned ealier.

Am all for the scholarship thing, but as we immigrants have found out with trying to get a foot into the work place, it doesn't just end there. We talk about it all the time in our household, that can we really afford having another child?

There is corruption scandal everywhere you look, and you can't tell me it doesn't extend to dishing out scholarship, so bottom line is, don't count on it !

Glaswegian

Nope, you came across as kid free!

We have two kids - we decided that was expensive enough in the UK, before Mr Blair got elected - hockey, etc wasn't even on our scope when the kids were born.

Nope, we aren't counting on scholarships - that would be a complete disaster! My aim is to completely self fund their education - I just hope they don't want to be doctors or dentists!!

I fully expect corruption to extend to scholarships - have a look around google for forums discussing scholarships - they are eye openers! These kids learn corruption at an early age. There are plenty of tales of lies and falsification out there - these little buggers are destined for federal government.

Canada is all about who you know - if there is money out there to be had, there's no reason why we can't grab some of it. You can also move anything that's left in you RESP into your RSP - finding alternative money out there for education means I can get into golf when I retire

willmore

I totally agree that any type of post-secondary education doesn't always guarantee you a well paying job. In my field especially (I'm having to consider going back to school to start on my Ph.d, because a masters in marine biology is really just "basic" these days. Contacts/ability/reputation certainly play a very large part in my field .

Anyone who has any type of post-secondary education has had to work hard to get it - whether a plumber, dentist, doctor, electrician, etc. Nothing at wrong with having a trade - they make very good money.

But, my point still stands - there is no reason that a "working class family" with talented kids should not take advantage of this money that has been made available (with our tax dollars) to make a better life for themselves. I certainly wouldn't deny my kids......would you deny your kids a chance at a post-education of any type because you didn't want anyone else to be responsible for them?

I can completely understand the your concerns - with 2 kids of our own - we did alot of advanced planning for their future with a financial advisor.....so no matter what happens to Jim/I they will be secure in their own right.....and not have to depend on others. Whether this works or not with the cost of eveything - who knows.....sometimes the best laid plans......

Not trying to be argumentative but I don't understand the problem with sending people on unemployment to university to make them able to contribute to society. In BC now people on welfare are being sent back to school to get them off welfare (with our tax dollars) and federally - people on unemployment on being re-educated to help them find jobs. Isn't that what's its all about? Am I missing a fundamental point here????

Well, as a computer engineer i think you're going to have a very bright future - isn't your citizenship coming soon? I think you will do very well - and be able to provide a wonderful life for your kids.

I can understand about "not being Canadian enough" - I can remember my dad talking about changing his name while he was at university in Winnipeg because of the discrimination happening in Winnipeg at the time. But when asked if they would return to Warsaw or my mom/parents to Ireland - both responded - NEVER - no matter what happens - this will be a better life in the end.

Squarepants - I'm sorry if I was rude to you!!!! Never meant to me I apologize - it's that stereotyper temper (that people tell me the Irish don't have)!!!!


Deep down it's probably a worry for a lot of new immigrants that the next generation won't be Canadian enough to make it either - horror of horrors they might even give up and head back to a home they probably didn't ever know.

Kids take a long time to mature - you'd be amazed how much successive changes of government can trash your plans [/QUOTE]

Glaswegian

The problems with increasing the number of school leavers in further education so they stay off welfare:

Its all about massaging the figures for the government.

There are only so many places in university on the 'useful/good' courses - therefore some other courses need to be established.

It used to be that only the top 10 to 20 percent were deemed bright enough to handle university - that automatically meant that the rest were more suited to other work. A levels used to mean that you could get a job.

In clearance you can find courses for students with very low grades. These kids are probably better suited to going straight into the workplace instead of three years at university getting debts and a degree that probably will not help them find a better paid job!

The drop out rate has gone up a lot. A waste of time and money for all.


For the avoidance of doubt: Increasing the number of children in further education is not the same as retraining the unemployed. The latter has more of a useful purpose.