Hi

We are at present going through the immigration process and have come across a slight problem. Have children from previous marriage who will definately not be coming with us to Canada - do they have to have a medical as this seems a waste of time and resources for something that is not going to happen or will a declaration stating the same suffice.

Any information will be greatly appreciated and any tips on places to live, work etc. am a self-employed plumbing and heating engineer 24 years experience (hint hint - any jobs need doing !!!), my partner is a recruitment and training manager in human resources for the National Health Service, daughter qualified in hairdressing, beauty and theatrical make up.

Look forward to hearing from you.


Debbie and Chris

Hi Debbie
I sympathise with your worries about the immigration process but can't offer much help on that front except to agree with you that it seems unlikely that they will need medicals - maybe they would have to have them at a later date if they were going to join you in the future - but I would try to get the official info out of Canada House if you can. Are they still as hard to communicate with as they were when I went through the process 15 years ago, I wonder? They were like a black hole - sucked in money and bits of paper but gave out nothing.

On the other point, I would like to suggest Calgary as the best destination for you and your family. We lived there for 10 years and our two children went through high school and university there. Both myself and my husband worked there, in engineering and education. There are endless opportunities there for anyone who isn't afraid of hard work (that doesn't include myself - I'm lazy, but Canadians certainly know how to work hard - most of them expect to have their homes mortgage free after 20 years absolute max).

Real estate is ridiculously cheap compared to the UK and all the infrastructure, from education to health, is excellent. The province of Alberta is in the almost embarrassing position of having more oil revenue than it knows what to do with, and is spending it as fast as it can on public services.

A great place to make a home, and make money if you are hard working and don't mind long winters. If you like winter sports you have the Rockies on your doorstep. There is plenty of sunshine and very little rain most of the time - it's a high-level desert environment (no cactus though!)

Downside is that it is COLD in the winter. No denying it. Spring doesn't come until May (just like the UK this year!!) and you will have snow until April - although it can be on and off as you get the warm Chinook winds which
temper it a bit. Spring last for about three days, then you get hottish summers, then winter comes again in late September.

The climate isn't the cities strong point, but you can say the same for every other city in Canada, actually, from Victoria to St. John's, they all have climate problems.

I don't know if this is of any use to you, but I would be happy to give you any info you want on Calgary. We are living in the UK at the moment - I'm helping my daughter run her new business - but intend to retire to Canada eventually - partly because of the health and senior care, which is excellent.
(I'm 50 - not retiring yettawhile!)

Take care
Deeana

Depends on childrens ages. Under 22 single and at school college uni. They are considered dependants.

You should have two choices, name them on all forms and tick the "non accompanying " boxes. If you think they may EVER want to go to Canada, or if anything happened to mother and they were young and needed to get to you, you really should allow them to have a choice later to be sponsored by you. If you may think they will want to go in future, then YES they have to have medical done, but are marked down as NON accompanying.
This means they have medical, and details kept on file. Then when they are older or they want to go. Youcan sponsor them making the process quicker ( supposidly.

If they are older, and say you have little or no contact and they are not likely to have medical, or want to live with you then, you still have to name them on the forms (not sure if it is one or both) as family and still tick the non accompanying boxes, but The Parent (You) has to write a letter and get it notorised stating that you will not be taking them and you understand that you will NEVER be able to sponser then in the future.

Depending on their ages you also have to prove you will continue to provide financially,for them assuming you do. Also if you do provide financially for them you need to show this in application. CSA payments etc. Court orders.

If you look at the search feature above ( not too good narrowing down specific things) but you may find past posts relating to similar questions. It can be very difficult to answer in depth as it depends on childrens ages etc. court orders, parent with care etc.

But there was a case of a parent being asked to get a letter from his ex girlfriend! saying she was happy for him to leave the country leaving her and kids in Uk . I think they were concerned that she could cope financially if he left the country. he had remarried and she was not even his wife.

Also if you do pay anything through CSA. They have no juristication in Canada to get money. But parent with care can apply to Canadian court to get money.

Many people here including me have simlar situations so immigration must be very used to the situation, but are hot on child abduction etc. so want to be 100% sure you dont go then suddenly decide to say you have 5 kids you forgot to mention on application and want to bring into Canada once there, or you try and abduct a child from parent in UK.

There is a reciprocal collection agreement in place between some (not all) provinces and the CSA. I just got a court order enforced on a man who left his girlfriend of seven years and kid in the UK for "a new life in Canada" with someone else. He made no provision for the child in the UK, believing that he was home free across the water. Unfortunately for him, she knew me from from days gone by and he moved to my area. I also helped her get a lien on his property over here as he did not tell her about this asset when he left the UK. If you know how the system works - or know someone who does.... :scared:

Deeana, I feel your information does not quite reflect the current reality.

Ralph Klein's Conservative government has made so many cuts to the education budget that parents in our neighbourhood have to volunteer at casinos to raise money for textbooks for our local school. This was unheard of when my kids, now in their early twenties, were attending that school. Back in those days I did volunteer work in the school and helped to raise funds, but those funds bought "would be nice to have" stuff, such as better playground equipment.

We live in a middle class neighbourhood in which a fair number of parents have sufficient free time to do the volunteer work that helps to maintain the standard of education in our school. But I wonder what it's like in the less well off neighbourhoods in which low income parents have to work two jobs to keep roofs over their families' heads and food on their tables.

When I catch the C-train to work, I often have to let two trains pass before one that has a tiny bit of spare space in it comes along. Even then I elbow my way onto it and stand just about nose to nose with other people. (The good news is that if the train driver is forced to slam on the breaks you're so closely packed together that you don't fall over.)

I work in the health, safety and environmental (HSE) industry. Although Alberta is such a wealthy province, its HSE legislation lags behind that of several poorer provinces. If you are disabled owing to a workplace accident, Alberta's workers' compensation system is less generous than the workers' compensation systems of several poorer provinces.

As you say, Alberta offers fine opportunities for hard working people. There are a couple of caveats, though. You have a better chance of doing well financially if you have very specific skills that the oil industry requires. Things should go okay for you as long as your health holds up. If your health is impaired on a long term basis, Alberta is one of the least, if not the least, benign Canadian provinces in which to live.

My opinion, for what it's worth.

Yes,there is recipricol agreement between a British court and canada but not the CSA itself. They cannot enforce payment or collect it. The parent in UK can get help via Citizens advice or solicitor to apply to a British Court in UK to track person In Canada and then apply an order to pay. They can then I believe get the money from their pay paid to parent in UK if they wont cough up. But it is a court in Uk that has to apply to court in Canada to find person and get them to pay. The CSA itself cannot get any money from you unless you are working for British services overseas or UK based company with offices overseas.
The CSA took over from courts in collecting money or enforcing payment. All they can do now is settle residency orders, financial details etc. All dealings with money for kids goes through CSA in UK, until parents go abroad, then it reverts back to the courts.

The system in Canada is very similar to UK anyway as far as the absent parent goes, and they have a very similar system for working out how much has to be paid.
It is not worth trying to run away from responsiblities. What goes around comes around. There could also be a warrant put out for arrest on return to "home" country in some cases.

I am on the other side of the fence as I was once a single mum with a child whoes father did not pay anything. We do not involve CSA, have an amicable arrangement, all I wanted was his time given to our daughter, financial support for her as and when she needed it, if he cared enough. Otherwise I would do it, and did. I have too many stories to tell about lazy mums who sit back and bleed ex partners for money, most of which they spend on themselves. Luckily we have a lovely daughter who has a fantastic relationship with both of us, and he is realy pleased we are taking her to Canada for her benefit. he will probably see more of her than he does now with return holidays. Now she is older and he has moved from the area they only see each other now and again. When they do meet and go on holiday they have quality time and stories to tell on return. A couple more years and she'll leave me and be off on her own I expect!

Thank you for your information, but it is not a question of not paying maintenance or shying away from parental responsibilities, its just that the children would not be coming with us now or in the foreseeable future, so what we are trying to ascertain is whether we have to get medicals done for them if they are not going to be joining us. It just seems a waste of resources and time when maybe a simple declaration from both parties would possibly suffice. Any ideas ?

Dear Deeana

Thank you for taking time to reply. We would be most grateful for any information you can give us. We are currently looking at the PNP programme to see if there is any way we can fast track through mainly Chris's skills as a plumbing and heating engineer. We have tried in vain to find any companies or agencies that specialise in employment in this field.

Once again thank you.
Debbie and Chris

If you dont get medicals done they can never be sponsored by you to go to Canada. So if they are young and anything happened to parent with care in UK and say no one in UK to care for them what would you do?
This may not be the situation but withotu knowing how old kids are any their cicumstances then no one can really answer.
If say they got to 20 and fancied living in Canada with you, they would have to apply in own right and may take a long time, or they may not get in. If you could sponsor them then it would speed things up.
No medicals no sponsorship.

if you have medicals doem then you can sponsot them at a later date. No one knows what the future holds. Without knwoing yours then it is difficult to say. We are naming both my step children, and they are having medicals, although neither is coming with us now, we want them to be able to at a later date, if they ever want to. One is currently at Uni and may come later needs to fall out of love first! the other will not come until he is old enough to chose for himself where he can live, and detatch the apron strings!

for many though the parent with care jsut will not allow child to have medicals under any circumstance, so it jsut isnt that easy.

if you have little or no contact now or are likely to have even less if you emigrate then there is little point in undertaking the medicals, if the kids dont know why.

You just need a declaration stating why you are not including them, and that you understand that you can never sponsor them in the future, and provide al info on current situation regarding maintenance and a statement saying you will support them when you leave. They do ask for this in the info.

in a perfect world i would love for this to happen but sadly i also know that the medicals will not be allowed to happen and i definately would not subject all concerned to being made to do it ! a fruitless and unnessesarily harrowing excersize in futility.
i feel i may be keeping the airline business in revenue for a good few years in return flights !

many thanks for your input

debbie and chris

I said reciprocal collection agreement......not enforcement Good for you that you have such a wonderfully amicable relationship. Many women and kids don't, many women are not lazy either, many (like me) work full time and still struggle with an ex who won't pay but wants all the perks of being a Dad, including the right to dictate where we all live. Hopefully one day I will be in your position and then I can come off as being equally sanctimonious.

sanctimonious ?? not quite sure how to take that !?

Something like this is better asked on the immigration forum.

In a situation like this they could never be sponsored as part of the *family class*.

However the Immigration Minister has discretion to waive the rules in humanitarian/compassionate cases, and in a situation like this (subsequent death or incapacity of caring parent) one could perhaps make a case to the Minister to admit them to Canada on this basis.

You'd need to be able to show this was caused by unforeseen circumstances (ie no attempt to get around the rules) and UK child welfare laws would still need to be complied with.

Jeremy