iaink

I dont doubt it, an educated scouser and an educated glaswegian can make themseves understood after all (as long as both remain sober). I just took exception to being told what I have witnessed is complete crap. I prefer to think of it as incomplete crap.

jimf

Mrs jimf has told me before that the French spoken in Quebec is more than a regional accent but still understable even if some of the phrases are slightly unfamiliar or old fashioned and the pronounciation less clear. She learned Paris French essentially a neutral French equivalent to English RP. I'm guessing it's like comparing English RP to a strong Newfoundland accent possibly where you can get by but there are significant differences.

As a basic rusty speaker I find listening to someone like Sarkozy with a pretty neutral accent I can pick up some of whats being said. With Chirac who has a strongish accent I'm struggling but with Quebec voices on the TV I have very little idea.

I rememember a few years ago a friend going to Hong Kong with his wife. She was a teacher and started teaching English but didn't last very long in her first job. She had quite a strong Scottish accent and the Chinese didn't want their children learning English with a Scottish accent.

dthomas

It is an absolute political move to mollify francophone Canadians (read QC) - perhaps some kind of anglo-Canadian pacification? Why not establish Urdu or Hindi immersion in TO? Here in Quebec francophones are sytematically denied the opportunity to learn elemental English - even in the private education sector (conspiracy theory: keep 'em unilingual and they can't leave . . . ha!).

dbd33

I think this is mostly hype and snobbery. Two francophones who want to communicate can, just as, should the need ever arise, a Londoner could receive useful information from a Geordie or a Glaswegian. If push comes to shove one writes things down.

As accents go I recall it being a point of pride among those educated here not to sound like a franco-Ontarian, then not to sound Canadian at all. This, however, is a detail. The mother of my children is Swiss-Roman and teaches francophone adults to high school equivalency in a Toronto suburb. The students are a curious mish-mash of cradles, Europeans, Africans and Arabs, much like the population of a French language high school. I often hear that they're unintelligible through disability, drunkenness, drugs or stupidity but not yet because they have marbles in their mouths.

iaink

My wife has similar stories, the japanese in particular wanted American teachers rather than UK ones, as the focus was on business with the US. Koreans were not as fussy. I guess the japanese are no better at distinguishing a canadian accent from a US one than we are

iaink

Because neither Urdu or Hindi are yet official tongues in Canada naturally
Legally speaking French is an official (legal) language in Ontario, where as English is not in Quebec.

By the way, Ontario has its own proud Francophones, they dont all come from PQ. Remember, France was in Canada chasing the beaver before the Brits got in and took over the act.

Partially discharged

Now there is some interesting imagery

iaink

Cant deny the history of this proud nation

jimf

It was clearly a case of ROC pandering to ROQ but you get the impression however much is given it will never be enough.

Souvy

Oh, OK. "mostly crap". Happy now?

Go find an educated Glaswegian and an educated Scouser (preferably sober) and we'll test your theory. No rush to find them.

ExKiwilass

That's nuts, but doesn't seem to have stopped them leaving.

re: separation, one of my issues is how quebec, that great millstone, has distorted education policy in provinces like mine where french really isn't that useful except for jobs with the feds. You can't argue that french is that relevant in bc. If we weren't shackled to quebec maybe a few people might need it for business, but that's it. It's ridculous that they require bilingualism for government jobs in this province. For what? The microscopic francophone community?

iaink

Just as well

dbd33

It's directly relevant to me. Child wanders over to Vancouver, presents French language resume at likely places, working the same week. She might otherwise having been looking at me for funding.

Lemonfish

That's also been my experience. This whole thing about Quebec French and French-French being a totally different language is seriously overdone IMO.

Yes the vocabulary is different sometimes, and the accent definitely takes some getting used to. But I see people writing that Quebec French is mostly useless as it can only be used here in Canada or that they've learned great Parisian French but its a totally different language over here so they can't use it. I find this pretty hard to believe.

One of my colleagues is from Montreal, moved to Paris for a few years then came back here. She made herself easily understood over there, although they were hugely snobby about the accent and mocked her from time to time. Same as a Canadian might do to us with our English...

Also, doesn't all this depend on regions?

I can understand the Quebec French spoken here, in Montreal and Quebec City, but struggled more when went up to Gaspe.

Also relates to level of education of the speaker. Francophones in my office tend to speak to me in a more 'standard' French, but to each other in much stronger accents. They can switch - am not sure the guy at the Timmies in Gaspe can (or wants to bother maybe).

Steve_P

Only partially educated but definitely sober, so all you need now is the Glaswegian.