Yeah, much easier if you ever get refused entry as you can just turn rund and go home. However, if you leave Vancouver on a late flight, US immigration is closed (they go home apparently, rather than live locally) and you have to clear on arrival in the US.

I'm sure this has been asked before, but I thought that if you were ever refused entry (other than for a non VWP approved style passport issue) you ceased to be eligible for VWP? If it is an unofficial refusal I can see that it won't matter, but in R I C H's case it sounded like the full works. Also (just trying to finalise some travel arrangements here ) if I fly into the US from Canada, I must have an onward ticket booked out of the US but if I enter by land crossing from Canada this is not the case (under VWP for British passport holder). Is this correct? I want to fly into US (commercial airline) and drive back with a friend so I would have to book a refundable return portion ticket to cover a technicality?

I can't wait to become Canadian!

Unless the flight originates outside North America (e.g. when we went to Vegas on a flight that had started in Manila).

Just thought I'd share with y'all what happened to me recently at the southern land border (Mexico/USA) when I tried to cross under Visa Waiver rules as a Brit.

http://eddiesayshola.blogspot.com/20...icated-to.html

Cheers

if you were ever refused entry (other than for a non VWP approved style passport issue) you ceased to be eligible for VWP? If it is an unofficial refusal I can see that it won't matter, but in R I C H's case it sounded like the full works.


any experiences on the trip after such refused entry ? is the VWP ok ? and now the new ESTA system prevent the application in case of previous refused entry ??

Ask on a U.S. section of the forum to be sure, but as far as I am aware, a refusal of admission does not in itself impose a bar on future VWP use. However, unless the reason for refusal is addressed it will likely cause problems again => best to apply for a U.S. visa in that case.

You can drive into the U.S. and fly back to Canada under the visa waiver, but you cannot do the reverse. You would need a U.S. tourist visa or a Canadian passport.

However, Canadian citizens can be (and sometimes are) refused admission to the United States, like anyone else. The U.S. immigration officer must still be satisfied that you are a genuine visitor.

On flag-poling, there is a wiki article:
http://britishexpats.com/wiki/Trip_a...lagpole-Canada

wonder is there any difference between above mentioned completed process and a simple paper without any fingerprint, photo steps

I'm no expert and had to rely on the websites which may very well be incorrect or out of date:
When does a national of a VWP country need to apply for a visa instead of using the VWP?
Nationals of VWP countries must meet the conditions noted in the section above in order to seek admission to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program. Travelers who do not meet these conditions must apply for a visa. In particular, a visa must be requested if the traveler:
Wants to remain in the United States for longer than 90 days, or envisions that they may wish to change their status (from tourism to student, etc.) once in the United States;
Wants to work or study in the United States, wants to travel as a working foreign media representative, wants to come to the United States for other purposes not allowed on a visitor visa, or intends to immigrate to the United States;
Does not have a machine-readable passport (MRP) issued or renewed/extended before 10/26/05, or is unable to meet other requirements outlined above for passports issued on or after October 26, 2005 or October 26, 2006.
Intends to travel by private aircraft or other non-signatory air or sea carriers to the United States;
Has been refused a visa or admission to the United States before, or did not comply with the conditions of previous VWP admissions (90 days or less stay for tourism or business, etc.); or
Has a criminal record or other condition making them ineligible for a visa (see Classes of Aliens Ineligible for Visas).
from http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/wi...l#travelertype

Thanks. In the end I booked a refundable ticket back out of the US, drove out with the friend and cancelled the ticket when I got back to Canada. I think I have posted on this recently but the (quite possibly out of date) information on the web suggests that VWP citizens resident in Canada may not need to go to these lengths (got it - post 23 on this thread) but I have had difficulty with a US immigration officer previously (I had the correct paperwork, the immigration officer was in error, I had to spend many hours waiting around for it all to be sorted out).

by the way, nothing(handwriting nor stamp) shown on my passport after obtaining the paper from US border office .

wonder how about the passport of Rich or others who had fingerprint/photo process ?

No idea. US immigration officers have power beyond belief and two different officers can respond in two very different ways to the same data before them.

Based on what he has posted throughout BE before, I think that JAJ is far more knowledgable about immigration issues than I am but rather than relying on an anonymous discussion forum, if you're worried give the US government helpline a call. Be warned though, it's a premium rate number and they seem to basically read out whatever is on their website.

In that case, why call up?

On the other hand, this page says nothing about refusal of admission preventing future VWP travel:
http://www.consular.canada.usembassy...isa_waiver.asp


The difference is that if you are resident in Canada, a return ticket back to Canada will normally do. It's not usually acceptable for those resident elsewhere.


On the whole flagpoling/refusal issue, I've been saying here for a long time that it's much better to get admitted to the United States and then return, rather than have this "refusal stamp". Why get something on your record that has to be explained away, over and over again?

Contadictions between the different websites! When I called, the person on the other end appeared to be replying with pretty much what I had printed out from one of the many available websites (UK consulate, Canadian consulate, various different departments of the US government with differing responsibilities etc). I really cannot now recall which one appeared to be the most "correct". Hence the dire warnings about relying on websites. Hopefully the helpline uses the most up to date information...

And if it doesn't? Why not go to the U.S. law itself and look to see what exactly it says about who can and cannot enter under the visa waiver? http://uscode.house.gov

I think the direct personal experience is more important than any paper work as the CBP officers have their discretion to do anything they want , that's why I look forward to more inputs.

I just have to chime in that that number is most commonly known as the MisInformation Line, it belongs to the wrong agency and the people who work there are not immigration specialists--it's a scripted phone bank. We don't recommend it. <g>

But you've made me curious now.