Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Well I'm finally leaving Ottawa after 4 years, I was laid off and then have found it impossible to find work as the québécois come over and work for less money... Also the language police here require you to speak French if in a management position.



It has become that bad that if you call or go for an interview they speak French first for fear of being in trouble!!

I'm sure other parts of Canada are not the same. So I'm relocating to Vernon in 6 weeks to start a new business.

If there is any one in Vernon then send me a message and maybe meet up :D

Roger

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Also can any one recommend an insurance broker and realtor??

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

You will have a much better time in Vernon! I am enjoying the evening sun as I sit writing this overlooking Kalamalka Lake. English speaking all the way! Insurance companies are much of a muchness, realtors similar! It depends on what you are after, we know a few good ones PM me if you like. What business are you setting up?

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Seems you are better off in a place where everyone looks like you and thinks like you. Hopefully you wont find anyone 'different' there.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Really? Is that the only thing you have to say?

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Not sure you understand the Ottawa situation, if you do not speak French fluently then you are less likely to get a position. The language police in Ottawa require all companies to hire French speakers and so we have a high percentage of people from Quebec coming over.

It's not about liking or not liking change, it's about opportunity and there is a distinct lack of that here in Ottawa....... I do speak French but not fluently and so I am always second to a French Quebec local

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

'All companies' is a bit broad, what industry are you talking about?

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Yep it was a broad comment, I'm in construction as a project manager.

So let's say 98%, take a look around and you will see they ask for Bi lingual skills. If you had a choice of some one who could speak French ok and a native French speaker, which one would you choose?

Please note that this thread is not about argueing but about opinions, if you have something to say keep it pleasant.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

I thought it was mainly trying to get work in any level of government in Ottawa that was the issue. I grew in Ottawa. I never managed to become fully bilingual. I often had this problem when looking for work there. Don't forget that Ottawa itself has a large population of 'franco-ontariens' in the east end who speak French as well.

I remember a case where a road construction project in Aylmer, Qc (just across the river) was dismantled by local authorities because too many ontarians (presumably anglophone) were employed in it's construction!

Is French a must if you want to work in the hi-tech field?

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Not sure about Hi-tech, but the job market is definitely becoming restricted due to the language requirements.

In my opinion, and it is my opinion, there seems to be a fear of being labelled anti Franco here and so the companies are doing all they can to satisfy.

An example of this on another end of the scale would be, Stephen Harper will always speak French first and English second..... And before some one jumps at this observation please remember be polite and we are all entitled to an opinion :)

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Oi.. Don't knock it unless you have lived here!:frown: You can speak any language you like here with no fear of reprisals. Vernon contrary it seems to popular belief is very cosmopolitan - it isn't redneck rural Canada contrary to Oink's previous suggestions! ;)

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Oink! Lol :rofl:

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Well I've never been to Vernon and I suppose it's possibly quite nice. But cosmopolitan it aint. 99.8% of the population speak English as their mother tongue and the population is less than 40,000. That suggests that 800 people living in Vernon know what "abroad" is:

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-re...CSD&GC=5937014

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Thanks for clarifying your industry. I asked as people reading this thread may not get it.

I am in high tech/defense in the private sector and have not come across your experience within Ottawa. I also include the experience being interviewed and offered a job in Quebec based company without speaking any french.

Hope your move goes well.

Cheers

JB0591

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Cheers JB0591

Maybe your in a unique and under qualified industry as regards to candidates but with construction it's always the same I'm sorry to say. I speak English, German, Dutch and Chinese but only French on a bardic level , not technical.

I'm looking forward to the move as I've heard so many good things about the Okanagen area, to be honest this also a lifestyle move. After years of working over seas and away from family it will be nice to get hone at night rather than 6-8 weeks in China

Have a great Victoria Day week end every one and hopefully let's hear some more experiences from others on this thread

Roger:D

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

I have now worked in Vernon and lived here for just under 5 years. The population of Vernon and the close surrounding area is actually around 50000. I am a GP and our patient population numbers around 12000 patients and so am speaking from direct experience of a likely typical representation of the population of the local area- I define the word cosmopolitan as per the Oxford English definition which seems reasonable " Familiar with and at ease in many different countries and cultures"
Collins definition includes " composed of people or elements from all parts of the world"
It doesn't mention that these people have to speak specific languages which I feel that you erroneously inextricably link with the word cosmopolitan. Nowhere does the census, at least that I can see, detail the origins of the inhabitants of Vernon. We have a substantial proportion of patients from Uk, Germany, Holland, Poland, Croatia, Kosovo,Belarus Greece, France, Finland, Switzerland, Italy, India,Pakistan, Korea, Japan, China Brazil, Uruguay, Ecuador, USA, Mexico, Chile, Grand Cayman, Jamaica Ukraine,Australia, South Africa, Singapore, Philippines ,Nepal and more. Is this not cosmopolitan enough for you dbd33? All of these people are well aware of "what abroad is". Your comment is patronising.
I too am sure that Ontario is "possibly quite nice" but I would be reluctant to come out with such a bold statement as yours because I have little knowledge of Ontario. Vernon has it's faults just like anywhere else but I think that it is a great place to live and I am sure that Aqua will be very happy here.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

I'm open to the idea that Statistics Canada is wrong, maybe Vernon is the at crossroads of all civilisations, but I'm not open to the idea that, if 99.8% of the population speak English as a first language, many people are from Germany, Holland, Poland, Croatia, Kosovo,Belarus Greece, France, Finland, Switzerland, Italy, India,Pakistan, Korea, Japan, China Brazil, Uruguay, Ecuador, Mexico, Chile, Grand Cayman, Ukraine, South Africa, Singapore, Philippines or Nepal unless they're from some tiny English speaking minority in those countries.

I'm not saying that Vernon is a redneck backwater but, oh my, it aint Camden.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Your suggestion was, I may have been wrong that around 800 people knew of the big wide world- this is simply not true. I must have imagined all of these people that I and my colleagues come across on a day to day basis as do the other docs in town. You must be correct, your knowledge is clearly better than mine. They are a figment of my imagination. Thank god it isn't like Camden btw, Camden is in my view not "quite nice" I have actually been there though so feel qualified to comment!

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

While this discussion is Vernon on becoming silly, all non First Nation Canadians came from somewhere else. How many of your patients from Germany, Holland, Poland, Croatia, Kosovo,Belarus Greece, France, Finland, Switzerland, Italy, India,Pakistan, Korea, Japan, China Brazil, Uruguay, Ecuador, Mexico, Chile, Grand Cayman, Ukraine, South Africa, Singapore, Philippines or Nepal were born in those countries?

How many even speak the language of one of those countries? (Apart from the South Africans).

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

There is that bullshit "language police" in Ottawa? As in, Ottawa has its own "language police" ? Or is it just a few of the quebeckers' language police who think they have authority over Ontario?

I find it pretty stupid that in a largely English speaking province, just because the city [Ottawa] is on the border of the normal English province and the rebel anglophobic province means it has to comply with the ridiculous demands of said anglophobic province. When it is still inside the normal, english-speaking one.

I also find it stupid (and feel for you, OP) that to work in construction you need to speak both languages. Completely unnecessary.
The way bilingualism is implemented here is one of the things about Canada that really, really irks me. :frown:

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Why silly? Err...all of them speak their own languages. I am referring to first generation immigrants not those assimilated into the local population over generations, again there is an infatuation about language. See my definition of cosmopolitan. First Nations were typically in the area first!

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

In my experience, clearly very different from the OP, Neither.

S

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Hmm. :confused: I know I got off on a tangent there LOL, I just don't like the anglophobia that goes on in quebec... Tis a beautiful place and i'm visiting Montreal this summer, which i'm actually really excited for seeing as i've been to alot of countries in the world, but never been to any provinces aside from Ontario.
:)

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

First generation meaning born in those countries and moved here? Or first generation meaning born in Canada, grew up in English, parents from somewhere else?

I should say btw that I don't see anything wrong at all in choosing to live in a small town where people have similar values, it's just not sensible to suggest that such a place is in any way cosmopolitan. And on that point, does Vernon offer a choice of synagogs?

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Continuing your tangent. Hmmm :confused:

Come back and report on "Anglophobia", *after* visiting La Belle Province.:sneaky: :D

S

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

You do know that Ontario, New Brunswick, and Manitoba recognize both the English and French language at the province level. Quebec does not recognize English. So it is not to do with the border more the provincial legislation. Not being said i dont think there is a language police in Ottawa and never heard of this until this thread.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Well quite. This thread is full of nonsense.

I agree. that's not uncommon, but the nonsense here is unusually stereotypical.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

So.... Having a choice synagogues ie now religion is entering your definition of cosmopolitan as well as simply the language that they speak- neither mentioned in conventional definitions of the word. This thread gets more and more bizarre.
The people that I describe are born overseas and move to Canada. I find it somewhat ironic that certain contributors to this thread on an expat forum find it incomprehensible that people from other countries move to Canadian towns and cities as well as us. I should have not bothered with entering into discussions and should have just PM'd Aqua and that way would have avoided pedantry and armchair expertise from people who actually know sod all about a place and clearly have no intention of seeing two sides of an argument sitting on the other side of Canada. I only contributed to wish him well. I thought that the initial intention of the forum was light hearted but also helpful for people moving to or around Canada. Maybe I was wrong and pedantry and criticism are the order of the day in which case I won't bother in future.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

I'm a bit trilingual. Language isn't the issue. At least I didn't make it so. Your definition of cosmopolitan was of course nonsense.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

See what I mean?

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Tell that to the Oxford English Dictionary- you clearly know more than them. I am seriously losing the will to live on this thread, you guys must have way too much time on your hands. Make a mental note to myself - leave it to the experts on the other side Canada...

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Oh, this? http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/42259

And you think a small, relatively unknown town in the BC interior, where, in your own words "english all the way!" fits the definition?

And leave what exactly to the experts on the other side of Canada? Objectivity, perhaps?

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Novocastrian;11267327]Oh, this? http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/42259

And you think a small, relatively unknown town in the BC interior, where, in your words "english all the way!" fits the definition?[/QUOTE]

Obviously relatively unknown to you- I rest my case. As I say I was wishing aqua well, was not intending to be derogatory to any groups or populations French or English speaking. I shall go and serve the medical needs of what seems to an entirely English speaking non immigrant population..according to you anyhow, useful nonetheless .. And you??

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

I shall continue to struggle against Evil in the world in the vain hope of protecting the planet and its human inhabitants from nasty things.

I shall also continue to point out that places like Vernon BC are not cosmopolitan, but rather places struggling to finally emerge from the Wilderness and not particularly succeeding in that.

I shall, in addition, continue to serve the needs of a barely competent in English population of immigrant and non-immigrant University science students in their struggle to survive and prosper in Toronto thus avoiding moving to Vernon. (Or becoming a GP in such a place).

After that, soon, I shall struggle to enjoy my retirement.

HTH.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

And when you retire I take it a move to the Okanagan is out then?? lol

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Rather. I'd consider that a total failure. When I retire I think I may need a good deal more intellectual stimulation than available there.

Or even in Toronto.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Oh go on, I would take you on as a patient, you know you want to really..;)

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

I knew someone who moved to Vernon because he couldn't afford to live in Vancouver anymore and apparently there are lot of Germans or Ukrainians or both. I went to visit him once and once only, boy what a dump.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Yep, Oink
I hate my view from my deck overlooking Kalamalka lake. A real dump. Admittedly none of the honking great fish that you manage to catch though.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

I live in Ottawa and have found that not speaking French fluently cuts out around two thirds of the jobs I can apply for (office/legal). I like the French language and tried to improve on my school French (classes at the good schools are expensive though) but I have recently been told by a downtown job agency that there is no point in learning French for a job with a bilingual requirement as it would always be given to a Francophone. I am talking about general office jobs and office jobs in law firms. A friend of mine in a similar job was laid off in January and, despite her experience, she has still not found another job. In a tighter job market, not speaking French is becoming more and more of an issue.

I am also leaving Ottawa shortly.