Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Isn't it reasonable to expect that, in a bilingual country, anything to do with law or government is going to require knowing both languages?

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Ottawa is a bilingual city. West and south are mainly anglo. Anything east, all the way to the QC border, is mostly franco.

The majority of my neighbours are franco and work for the government. They work in English.

Bilingual positions will usually go to a franco, for a simple reason. Francos are much better at being bilingual than anglos are.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

The friend I spoke about is an English speaking Canadian and in the past has been able to find work fairly easily. I know a number of born and bred non-French speaking Ontarian Canadians who tell me the situation was not always like this.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Hehe;)

That validates just about everything I said before. In a bilingual country the provinces should recognise both languages. Yeah I didn't hear of Ottawa language police till this thread either. I have a feeling OP is going on about something that isn't true

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

We'll this has become a heated thread!

So to explain for the slightly dim:rofl:

Any company or government office you call or visit will first great you in French and English second, simply because they do not want to be labelled Anti Franco and run the risk of trouble.

Ottawa is in Ontario, or it was the last time I looked and Ontario is not a French province. I have no problem with francophones or the language. The post I made was simply my opinion and mine alone!

I suggest the critics on this thread apply for management jobs and then post their experiences.

And if Canada is primarily an English speaking country then why does Stephen Harper speak French first? Easy answer..... Doesn't want the backlash from the French speaking population.

You can keep the insults, sarcasm coming as it means nothing except the only way you have to answer a thread like this to be rude! To be honest it has made me smile to read the small minded comments from some of you on here...... Maybe you are Trolls!:sneaky: and I mean fat, slightly strange beings... Not internet trouble makers!:D

Again just my opinion:p

PS.. I sat an English exam when I applied for PR status.. Hmmm why not French??

( sitting waiting for the comments)

Enjoy your day people

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Just Google 'Ottawa language police' and you will find several articles on this topic, including in the Ottawa Citizen.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Here you go boys and girls......

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...me-to-ontario/

Now play nice together

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

What if people want to then (rightly) label them as anti-anglo by doing that procedure?

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

StinkyPup

Can you stop posting those disgusting pics of the dump that is Vernon! I nearly choked with disgust on my Coffee lol

Roger

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

You can label who you like, I try not to label any one but simply have opinions on a practice that obviously is not a 2 way street!

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

There must, by now, be a huge population of completely bilingual Canadians. I don't think my children would self-identify as either anglo or franco; they grew up in Canada so they speak both languages. Simple as that. That was true of their contemporaries at high school and of many of them at university.

It seems to me that people who are not bilingual are rightly disadvantaged in governmental positions. In non-government jobs it's less clear cut but, if the staff and customers of a business are likely to speak either language, as is the case in Ottawa, I'd hire people who spoke both languages ahead of people who only spoke one. I can't see that there need be a conspiracy, bilingual people are likely to be more useful and there's no shortage of them.

I suppose that in Vernon, as in Switzerland, one will need to speak many languages.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

You may be surprised at how many Canadians do not speak French , especially around Ottawa. The language problem is a recent thing and not a historical matter, when I arrived 4 years ago it was easy to speak English at work but in the last 2 years it has changed considerably.

What is it that so many people have against Vernon ?

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Try doing a bit more research before you move provinces, or countries. You strike me as the kind of person that moves to Spain and then moans about not being able to find Watney's Red Barrel or the Daily Express.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Amazing! Red is such a nice colour ( Color). I've done my research thank you and I have come to my own conclusions

And so your saying that if a person attempts to speak French as a second language, they shouldn't as they sound vile?!? Wow that's a strong statement and not at all small minded .... Again I'm sitting here smiling at your quote Souvy

As I said before, be polite as this is not the place for personal insults!

Watneys eh! Takes you back don't you think?

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

You were the one starting the fight, poppet.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

That's better Souvy.... So I'm Poppet eh? :)

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

I was not suggesting anything nice. It was sarcasm.

Ottawa will be a poorer place after you leave. That was also sarcasm.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Oh come on! Your covering your love with sarcasm, we can all see that :D dont be shy!

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

I don't have anything against Vernon but it's not "cosmopolitan". Ottawa's not really cosmopolitan either but obviously is more so.

When I worked in Ottawa the politics of language in the workplace were a big deal, many uni-lingual anglos complained that they were held back by their disability. I don't recall which year I spent there, 1984 at a guess, so I'm surprised that the issue went away and has now come back.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

I hope I didn't come over as too sarcastic in my previous contributions to this thread.

I'm an Anglo. *Very* Anglo; I have the kind of accent lots of people like to mock, even after many years out of the UK ;) I'm also very lucky (with a bit of hard work thrown in) to be bilingual.

I'm sorry the OPs have had a bad experience in Ottawa, re language. I do take issue with the "only Francophones will get the bilingual jobs" attitude. I'm basically unemployed at the moment, but I've had 3 job offers in the last 2 months from Ottawa, and no one could have cared less about which side of the fence I'm classified as. (Unfortunately, personal circumstances prevent me from upping sticks and moving there right now).

I also have several unilingual (English) friends in both Ottawa, & Qc, the Canadian bastion of French language protection, and can report that they manage to work, live and play successfully.

S

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Did any of those jobs you were offered in Ottawa require you to speak French?

I'd imagine if you were unilingual (English) in Quebec it would be very difficult to find decent work unless you had deep roots in the existing Anglo communities there.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

1/3 did. I was surprised the other 2 didn't.

There's a fairly recent (couple of months ago) thread* here on BE which may prove an exception to your second paragraph.

S

* here it is :http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...=820691&page=3

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

With regard to the above post, a major downtown job agency advised me that if an employer required bilingualism, then there were plenty of Francophones available for that job. It makes sense, why employ someone who has learned French as an adult (unless, perhaps they were very advanced and practically fluent) when they can have a Francophone?

In answer to some earlier responses to my post, I can also say that in my last job I worked with a number of Anglo Canadians, of different professional levels with a wide age range. Yes, there are jobs for English-only speakers (obviously, I had one), I was just making the point that more employers are now asking for French. During the several years I worked for a large downtown company, the receptionist always answered the telephone with the company name, followed by 'bonjour'. No English. The staff in that company generally speak English day-to-day, though you will hear some Francophones fall into speaking French to each other. If someone needed assistance with French, there was always someone nearby who would help.

What I wanted to point out is that more recently, more employers are asking for French, which means that the English speakers have a smaller pool of jobs for which they can apply. That's just a fact. As is the existence of the so-called 'language police'.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Talking of bilingualism, does anybody know what's happened with MillieF. She hasn't posted since the end of March.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

I was wondering about her too; I *think* she popped in over the weekend, but can't remember on which thread.

S

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

I am Canadian, and I would identify as very, very anglo. I am unilingual (English) , and as far as I am concerned the federal government should force quebec to recognise English as well as French in the province, and demand removal of the "language police" , as well as the dumb requirement that there always be French text on a sign, and if there is also English text on said sign, that the French text be larger than the English text. That's racist IMO.

Color is the US spelling for "Colour" in proper English. No need for that in Canada. We at least spell colour properly here. Do get with the times.

Jeez, I was wondering the same thing! :confused:

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Thats puerile, puéril, Kindisch (and you are rather young). You are obviously convinced (correctly) that dual citizenship is a boon.

But bilingualism is a greater one. It takes a bit more work though.

And the Quebecois are not a race. Even Pauline never said that.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

I think that was a mix of French and German there? :unsure::lol: Ah yes, I do love my dual nationality, and I think bi/multi lingualism is good too, I'm in the process (or should I say need to start ;)) of learning Maltese... I just don't see French as a necessity at the moment. And I didn't mean "racist" in that context, would you prefer the term "linguist" ? (Maybe should refer back to the grammar thread :lol:) (What? Did that even make sense? Tis almost midnight...)

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Then should the federal government also force the other provinces to recognise French as well as English? If not, would that be "racist" in your opinion?

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

It's not up to the federal government. Canada's constitution requires that anything "federal" be available in both languages. You could demand service in English or French in any federal building anywhere in Canada. After that, it's up to the provinces and municipalities. New Brunswick is officially bilingual. Ottawa is bilingual when it comes to anything in the public sector, as are some other communities in Ontario.

The signage requirement is often ignored. There are villages near me, in QC, where there are signs etc written only in English. It's the same in the west end of Montreal (places like Beaconsfield). The stop signs do not say "arret"; the say "stop".

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

But I thought Malta was 'home' and you were a Maltese who is unfortunately trapped in a Canadian body!!!!:thumbsup:

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Yes it would. It's all or nothing in my opinion. Every province should uphold both languages equally and not be biased against one or the other because of their "different" cultural roots.

I am... But in order to be fully Maltese, I need to speak the language you know... I wasn't born knowing how to speak anything ;) I was just taught English first, and have chosen to learn Maltese now :thumbup:

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

I am moving from quebec to the Ottawa area after struggling with the language police here for the past few years. Can anybody recommend any areas around Ottawa for newcomers with very little French ?

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

no, because it's not really a bilingual country. the centre can keep telling the rest of us it is, but in reality it's not. it just a form of discrimination which directly favours those born around toronto/ottawa etc, which is imo basically a different country than where i live in vancouver. why the **** should anyone be paid for bilingualim in french in vancouver with it's microscopically small francophone population who all speak english anyway cos they have to to survive, except the ones sucking off the federal government teat? you know who you are.

where is the large french speaking market in vancouver of hundreds of thousands to require so much money spent on these bilingual federal services? there isn't one. and it just takes money from the rest of us to prop up the myth that the rest of canada outside that centre bit is bilingual. that should be a hint right there. Just checked wikipedia - ooh look it's a whopping 6% of the population of vancouver that is francophone! wow! let's throw MORE money at those underfunded people!

it's stupid. it's bs imo.

western separation fwiw!

or even better, quebec separation.

sorry for the thread hijack aqua, i hope you enjoy vernon.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Lived here in Ottawa the past 14 years and don't speak French and have no degrees, etc. Never had a problem finding IT jobs and am now in a management position. Maybe it's the British accent they fall for. Always sounds more sophisticated than you really are.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

A Geordie, Scouser, Glasgow etc, etc accent sounds sophisticated??? I think not. Is there really such a thing as a British accent?

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Rather, old chap.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Oh please don't mention separation, I'm fed up to the back teeth of hearing the solidarity brigade banging their pots and pans about it, hence my need to escape from Quebec to live in the real Canada.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Nice rant KWL but your premise and most of your conclusions are wrong. Canada IS a bilingual country...it's in the Constitution and is not something imposed on the extremities by central Canada at all.

I can't quite see how it advantages people born around Toronto, but whether or not it does, Toronto is in the same country as Vancouver, irrespective of how you feel is concerned.

I wonder if you can substantiate that it costs a significant amount to provide bilingual federal services in Vancouver? I imagine Toronto must be much worse off since the city provides municipal services in over 50 languages.

Re: Finally leaving Ottawa
 

Where on earth were you living in Qc? I'm not too fond of the separatists myself, but manage quite nicely to "agree to disagree" with the pots & pan bangers.

At the risk of inflaming the debate, I'll add a +1 to the above. I hear, via family members/friends, that it's easier to get gubmint services in Vancouver in Cantonese & Potunghua than French ...

S