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I would suggest that the pioneering spirit is still the key to settling in any country. You don't have to paddle the rivers, ride the range or hike the trails nowadays but you still have to be prepared to travel around, be adventurous and take risks to find a place that suits you.

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With you on that one, and it's part of the draw of the place.

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After nearly 2 yrs here,it has been sooooo hard to to come to the decision of moving back to the UK, esp when you look at how smoothly everything has gone for us here.
To those of you about to leave the UK, please DON'T burn any bridges as you just never know how you are going to FEEL a couple of yrs down the line. We left the UK with bank accounts still in place, on good solid terms with everyone and left the doors wide open for a possible return.

I wish in some ways we could stay and obtain our citizenship, but timing wise I don't think thats possible as we really want our youngest to get into a certain school, the same one as his brother,(whose old class still has a place for him thankfully) Delaying our return runs the risk of the Reception class being full :eek:

But we still have PR, so if we decide to return AGAIN to Canada (yikes), we can do within the next 3 yrs.!

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hi, ian and sympathies to you and your family.
i can understand why you have said what you have said.
in my opinion, you have been away from england for quite some time and so going back and seeing it again, albeit after some years, you would naturally feel like that.
i can see myself saying EXACTLY what you say when we came back to the uk in 2005!! soon as our plane landed in the uk, i thought wow, i'm back in the land of the living! everything looked so much at ease kind of, the cars, the greenery, the way things are done, efficient administration, pocket handkerchief front gardens, corner shops, etc etc.
but, believe me, that soon ran out. i remember, that just after a few months here, we started thinking why did we come back.....!
especially when we began experiencing the hassle with hooded youth loitering with malice around every street corner on fridays, graffiti on every wall, etched on double decker bus windows, on shop shutters, on lamp posts, letter boxes and even on parked cars and bollards.
and the helplessness of local bobbies when confronted by some somali guys openly selling quat (or is it khat ?) out of the back of his car, gangs of bosnian women hassling car drivers at road junctions for money by washing their windscreens....the list goes on.
nothing to do with racism or anything, but this is actually what is happening here..........
ok, so it may not be like that in the stockbroker belt of surrey, or posh places like gerrards cross, amersham, chalfont latimer, ascot, etc etc, but it is happening in many places now, and anyway, most people just do not have the money or wherewithal to move to these places.
and we soon knew why there were so many cameras everywhere!!
and as you say, yes, there IS a lot of history here, more than a lot of countries, but how many people have really bothered to explore that side? not very many.
i know in my time here, i have never visited scotland, ireland, the south west or the east of england! furthest i have been is leeds up north and bristol towards the south west.
no, as you say, it's not just uk=bad, canada=good.
both places have their good and bad, but it's a case of what YOU want out of life.
look at our case now--we came back with happy hearts and just after a few mths started pining to go back! position now is that the kids do not want to go back, just yet anyway, and our pr deadline is beginning to loom.:eek:
thats what you get for being so quick in making decisions that should have been taken after very careful deliberation!
in my case, i know in my heart what this country is heading towards, and i for one do not want to be part of that future. each to his own, as they say.:thumbup:

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Great post Iain. Very sorry to hear about your Mother though.

I think you really have hit the nail on the head and you have pointed out a number of things which the UK has in abundance....and unfortunately Canada is left trailing on. I completely and totally agree with you - there is little to do here in Ontario compared to what is available in pretty much any area in England. In fact I'd actually say that Canada is relatively boring compared to England.....but you know that I like it here as much as you do.

Canada really isn't a walk in the park like some people seem to think - you think if you come over here with a vast sum of money that everything will be okay....well I can tell you; we did and wow did we speed through most of it in no time. Now granted we were starting up a business, however everything over here was way, way more expensive than we had thought....oh and yes we did do the recce trips! We spent almost 11 months out here but it still wasn't enough to really get the full grasp of how expensive everything is here - that's the problem with coming here on holiday; you continually convert back to pounds. Well it doesn't work like that - the minute you start earning dollars you'll find out just how tricky it is to live fantastically well. Okay so we managed it - BUT with a lot of worry, anxieties and concern....turns out it was needless worry now, but you never do know! Not till you are here....and even then who's to say it will always be fine?

I wouldn't return to the UK now - I'm settled here, but I have built my life around my business.....I'm not too sure I'd want to just give up my life in the UK for a larger house either. LOL!! We ended up with a far smaller house out here.

Everyone has their own reasons for moving; for some it will work, for others it won't. Owning a property mortgage-free isn't so great if you have no job and no money to put food on the table.......

....think carefully, keep a nest-egg for a rainy day and if it doesn't work then hey you had a great adventure to tell your Grandkids.

Now I really must go - take care all.

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So, this is it then R2D2? The real deal? You've both decided you're going back as soon as poss? :confused:

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Pretty much Jaycee. We are going to wait until our trip back in the summer to make the final final decision, but we are making plans to return this year, yes !
Had the house valued last week, are going to look at homes in the UK in the summer whilst we are there, and just take it from there !

Scary in some ways, but feels right in others. Cheshire IS home after all.

Just got to get our heads around all the organisation now :ohmy:

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Sorry to hear about your mum - certainly puts things into perspective!

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ditto :thumbup:

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The best of luck to you all then Deb, I'm sure you and hubby have given it a lot of thought, and your trip back will yay or nay the decision even more. I'm not sure I've ever read where you're from except Cheshire......you must come from one of the nicest parts to not have any bad experiences?

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Hi All

But Jaycee the thing about your part of "Cheshire" is it also happens to be part of Tameside which is going down the pan fast - so don't you have any silly thought about coming back to here :p

Gay
x

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Hey Gay.....NOOOO chance of that happenin', you can be assured of that!! Wild horses couldn't drag me back there! ;) As Paul Brandt says in the song......."and I'll be Alberta bound until I die............":)

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Hi all,
We are just starting the process to emigrate and can't really understand where your going with this and why you started it?

"On balance I am still happy to be in Canada (just as well as I couldnt afford to move back), but the UK is far from the decaying cesspool of humanity its sometimes portrayed as by the media...if you have the means to live in a reasonable area.[/QUOTE]"

Why did you move to Canada in the first place, what were your main reasons?

Uk is ok, if you are well paid, not many are. New cars as already said, company cars and credit, house prices, bloody mad, if you are a first time buyer now, watch out:eek: weather can be good, good for the farmer, lots of places to visit, but cost a fortune, so if you have not got a well paid job, hard luck. then there is taxes, petrol prices,healthcare, schools and the threat of the yob society (when you have young kids growing up) and there bindge drinking ways. Which does go on, if you take a look around all the major cities later at night.

We live in Birmingham, and it's ok, we want to move out, if it means emigrating or moving to a different part of the country. My wife is in the education system and what she tells me, does not sound very promising for our kids future and that's a big push for us to get out and try somewhere totally different and new. we would like to settle in Calgary, cold in the winter and warm in the summer. Not like here, we do get some brillaint weather, but on a whole, raining and cold. Also it's what other posts have said, it's the adventure. We are going to give it at least 3 years, get our citizenship, then we have the option and the means to come back:thumbsup:

Cheers all,
carl

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I'm sorry to hear about your mum Iain - my deepest sympathies....

I agree with a lot of what you said in your original message but I do also agree with the possibility that it's seeing things with fresh eyes but visitors ones...

Britain is probably one of the most lovely places to visit in the world, it's also a pretty darn good place to live too, so green, so much history and fantastic quirks but we wanted a change - we needed to get out and see if we could live out our dream of moving to Canada and we are so happy we have.

We lived in a beautiful area, had lots of friends, two good jobs and a nice house BUT we had itchy feet, also my hubby's job meant he had to work 50+ hours a week every week, debt more or less seems inevitable in Britain unfortuantely (or, yes, unless you don't want to go on the slightly bigger holiday or have a newer car or whatever, which is usually personal choice) but the move to Canada is not utopia either and that's the realistic outlook we had to put on our move to make sure it worked for us - and fingers crossed, so far it has.

Canada is not an escape but a new adventure for us, I am sure when we go back to visit we will be sorry to leave the UK behind again but mostlly it will be because we will have packed in so much in and seen so many people that the visit will be emotionally charging but we know in our hearts that, to quote Fatboy Slim, right here, right now, it is right for us.

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Hi Carl

Please don't think I am having a go at you particularly but .....

Ditto for Calgary


Ditto for Calgary


Very few places to visit are free in and around Calgary. If you are talking purely about trips to the Rockies - then the cost of gas involved in doing so is not insignificant

Canada has taxes as well, petrol prices have gone up nearly 25% in the 3 months that we have been here, healthcare isn't cheap (particularly prescriptions, locals in Calgary are begining to complain about schooling (lack of financial investment arising from the recent budget where the politicians backtracked on previous pledges - politicians the world over are the same:curse: )


We like it here and can't see ourselves returning to Blighty, but never say never and all that.:D

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Exactly.............I think if you come to Canada thinking it doesn't have problems then you are in for a big reality check. We came with eyes wide open, have absolutley loved some aspects of living here, and not liked others. There are pro's and cons for both countries, and living away from the UK has made us realise just how many pro's we had in our part of pretty Cheshire. (South Cheshire btw Jaycee, Alsager/Sandbach area to be exact, but I grew up in beautiful Tarporley)

Canada has been really good to us, coming here WAS the big adventure we craved for whilst sitting in day to day UK life, and it broke us out of the little rut we had gotten ourselves into.

I think if people leave the UK after slagging the place off, they could have to eat some serious humble pie, if the new chosen country doesn't turn out to be everything you 'imagine' it to be.

You can never account for feelings.
Don't get me wrong, I have loved living here and would have happily stayed for a few more years, but forever is a very long time, and we just couldn't see that happening. Hubby's homesickness is the main reason for our return, but ageing parents with a few health problems is another big facet.

We are sooooo glad to have done it though. Good luck to everyone starting out on their big adventure. Have to have a few, to stop life being boring i always say !

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R2D2

You had better swot up on your Polish then. my sister lives in Haslington and most of the road signs are now written in Polish first with the English beneath.
The Asda in Crewe makes you feel like your on your hols cos your the only one speaking English.
I'm by no way racist but i am English and would like to be able to ask for something i can't find in my own language.....in England.

jo

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but you'll be happy to point and gesture in Canada?

One thing I really enjoy about England, and I'm talking Brent here not Virginia Water, is that ordinary people usually do speak passable English. I can go for days in Toronto without meeting anyone who speaks any English (or French) at all.

(I cheerfully admit the implied racism, btw, it's nothing like as racist as my opinion of drivers in Canada).

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I must have travelled around the UK in January with an automatic translation facility programmed in. :confused: There were a few more Eastern European languages floating around, but I evidently missed the tsunami of Poles everyone else is bothered by. I saw no major road signs in Polish - anywhere. If foreigners speaking their own language and road signs in the local ethnic languages is an issue for you, you are not going to like Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal....:huh: Actually, after Dwayne/Dwaynetta F***wit Redneck says "pardon me?" to you for the twentieth time when you know damn well you spoke erm...English....you might want to consider rethinking xenophobia as an emigration strategy.

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LOL you wouldn't like Vancouver then when lots of the store signs are in Chinese and Korean!! You've got to open your mind a bit. I've loved the Asian feel of Vancouver, that part I will miss.

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Yessssss!!!! I'm bloody good I am!! I was looking at all the lovely parts of Cheshire today (because I'm nosey and have been dying to know where you could come from :D) and for some reason I was drawn to Tarporley....that is so weird, but true! Had to ask OH where abouts it really was though and he says its in the Lymm/Knutsford vicinity??? We were both even looking at property and prices in Tarporley on rightmove.co.uk and I didn't even know that's where you were from. Well good on you R2D2 for going back there with more you came out with.....hope you find a lovely property and it works out just great for you all!! I can definitely understand why you miss that part of the UK now ;)

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My bessie friend lives in Tarporley...lovely part of Cheshire. We were looking at property in that area earlier in the year.

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You knocked the nail on the head with that one dingbat! It's become a bit of an embarrassment for me sometimes when I have to repeat what I say a few times, no matter how slow and clearly I say it! I mean, I'm talking ENGLISH for goodness sake but they just look at me and go "Uh?":blink: I'm sorry but I refuse to round my accent off to sound more Canadian (well not just yet anyway!!!) and I still pronounce my "t's" that way rather than said as a "d".

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Sorry, but tell hubby he's a lttle off the mark there.:p
Tarporley is actually not that far from Chester. If you are going from Nantwich to Chester, Tarporley is roughly in the middle.

Its very lovely, but comes at a lovely price too, so can't afford Jack s**t back there. Thats why, when we got married, we had to buy elsewhere.

We have lived in Middlewich ,Alsager and Sandbach and are looking to move back to Alsager.

Deb xx:)

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Thats the thing isn't it. It all depends on what you had and where you came from, as to how you draw the comparisons of life over here.

We spent our whole lives surrounded by rolling green countryside, so when you don't see that any more on a daily basis, it takes some adjusting too. We just miss the little things that made us who we are.

Canada is great, but the great things don't make up for the things we no longer have in our lives. Not at this moment in time anyway.

I guess I'll have to see for myself if I'm falling over Polish folk at every turn:unsure: Funny, all my family and friends don't mention 'the invasion'. ;)

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That's quite true, but it was the opposite for us that has made it so successful for us here. Hyde is a scrunched up, filthy hole sat right on the edge of the beautiful Pennines/moors. They're a lovely sight to see from your bedroom window, but it's what you're surrounded by day in day out that got us so down. When we came out here, it was like a breath of fresh air. Even though we're in a townhouse, right on top of a busy intersection, we have a desirable walking trail across from us with water fountain, playground and bbq/picnic areas/fire pits. And just two minutes drive takes us right out into the countryside - flat yes, but with the big blue sky above, it makes it heavenly! And we can AFFORD things over here too......if we want to go out for a meal, we can because it's much more reasonably priced. We are seeing an increase in the volume of traffic here in Red Deer but it's still nothing compared to the choking congestion my parents still have to put up with in Hyde. Their local supermarket (Morrisons) is literally a mile down the road, but during rush hour, it can take them 45 minutes to crawl home!! I do believe that your circumstances in the UK can play an influential part on how you take to Canadian life. It has for us anyway.

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Absolutely, and I'm really glad that you found what you were looking for in Red Deer, and that life is good for you all.:)

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Thanks Deb. You'll do alright, I'm sure. For you, the main thing is you have agreed on what you really want out of life and you all seem pretty focussed on that.

I really wish you all the best.
Jaycee x

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[QUOTE=dbd33;4682472]but you'll be happy to point and gesture in Canada?


AH, but Canada isn't England!!!!

The points system they are looking at for immigration to be brought in next year over here has already been slated as racist, sexist,religionist and every other kind of ist.
Funny tho that other places have one in place and have had for years.....known as taking the cream or brain drain

jo

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That's because it's propagandist nonsense for the most part. I live in London and I do see the odd Polish numberplate, but that's it. Big deal. There is no "influx", no "wave", no "invasion" of immigrants... unless you're a racist with an agenda, of course. Some people come here, other people go somewhere else: that's the beauty of being part of Europe. Long may it continue.

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Bear diesel get a life!!!

My daughter attends a catholic middle school and has made friends with some lovely children from Lituania, Poland, Russia, etc... These kids come from hard working families who have made a huge sacrifice to leave their families/culture to arrive in a country where they are considered the lowest of the low by ignorant xenophobics (sound familiar?).

These children and their families are working hard to make a new life for themselves and do not deserve the blanket revulsion people such as your self dole out.

My parents were irish immigrants in the 60s and we experienced a certain amount of racism from ingrates who lived locally who resented my parents being in the UK despite the fact that they never received so much as a penny in benefits. After the Birmingham pub bombings my mother was spat at in her local shop and we were generally looked down on by most of the dole receiving locals.
My father went on to create a successful business creating over 300 jobs for local people and contributing substantially to the local economy. (Bet he's paid more tax than you have!)

Plese keep your ignorant sweeping statements to yourself and
Good luck with your application...can't come quickly enough as far as I'm concerned.

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Hi Debbie

I used to assess NVQ's in the Hospitality Industry and went around from hotel to hotel, restaurant to restaurant assessing.

My point I am going to make here is that in these larger Hotels and restaurants specifically in the major cities of the UK we have so many foreign workers from Poland, Finland etc who most are under 25 years old and getting fudnding to take an NVQ.

You know the saddest part about this is that these "immigrants" are better educated, can spell better and have better manners than some of the 17 -19 years British born kids of today.

Disclaimer : These are my thoughts and are in no way racist at all just a fact I have seen with my own eyes.

gay
x

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[QUOTE=Ruby Murray;4683196]Their local supermarket (Morrisons) is literally a mile down the road, but during rush hour, it can take them 45 minutes to crawl home!! QUOTE]

Jaycee

You want to see the congestion that the new Morrison store has caused in Denton where I live - ridiculous

Ikea at Ashton Moss - When the plannin permission was given the council didnt even consider how they would manage the additional traffic and the Police had to patrol for the first month !!!

Gay

x

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Hi The Smiths

Dont think that Bear was being racist at all just stating what she has found where she lives.

If you take a look at my other post in this thread above I have also found an increase in different nationalities in Manchester City Centre too and have stated my case for this - but I dont consider myself to be a racist.

Gay
x

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Good original post.

There are a lot of good things about the UK. I went to London and visited the Natural History Museum for the first time in many years last week, and was astounded by the amazing architecture. The UK has a lot of history, a lot of amazing past to look back on.

It was a very good point about the UK being a nice place to live if you have the money.

Between us, my wife and I earn nearly £40k per year, not exactly high wage earners, but not too bad. We can barely afford to live in our ground floor one bedroom flat. There is no way on earth we could afford to get a larger mortgage and move into a larger home in the UK. We are fortunate that we were able to put a large deposit on the mortgage originally, which means we have a lot of equity in the property itself.

Our move to Canada is primarily to enable us to have more space, in beautiful surroundings, and maybe be able to start a family of our own one day. Neither of these things we will be able to achieve in the UK.

Ian

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Then why is it something even worthy of discussion if you don't consider emmigration from eastern european nations as being a negative thing about britain?

These are people who, like yourselves, are hoping to make a better life for themselves in a foreign country.

Todays emmigrants are often tomorrows leaders and employers.

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I've been reading this whole thread now and I feel like I have to post a reply of some sort, like other people have stated here your experiences in this country and Canada are all going to be different because we don't all necessarily look for the same things in our lives. I've lived in Stoke-on-Trent all my life although I've travelled all over the UK with being a Electrical Contractor, my wife comes from crewe and moved over here to join me. Crewe has lately had a lot of press regarding the "Invasion" of Poles, people comment that the individuals saying that there is an Invasion are just Racists. I think that comment is just plain ignorant, my wifes family are still in crewe and there have been a few comments on the noticable rise in Polish people and the fact that very few of them speak English. I've worked for a company in Staffordshire that deals with vauxhall cars and one Saturday morning a team of us went in to do some testing and we found forty people in a workshop working where we were and every single one was Polish. Every. One. And not one single person spoke a word of English, needless to say there was an accident with a car, an Apprentice and a Scissor-Lift that was down to Mis-communication and the Apprentice was blamed by Vauxhall.
Try being on the recieving end of that a few times and it sours your view on visitors to the country. Or try living in your Grandmothers house that she has lived in since World War II and you're the only white family in the street and every time you go out you have a lot of hostility thrown at you.
Its crackers and an indication of how bad this country is going when you can be victimised so much and when you complain you get branded a racist.

Politically speaking Britain is a lot more Socialist than what it used to be and I don't mind saying that (to me) is a very bad thing. Broken promises in Elections are nothing new but the scale of the lies and corruption in Government here these days is criminal we have to live with the aftermath, the OP stated that there are more new cars on the roads.......very astute and correct, according to Government statistics released last year Britain is responsible for 46% of the EUs debt with Credit Cards etc. Thats why Gordon Brown is known as the "Plastic Chancellor", what he does in Governemt is now reflected in society, more borrowing than ever, and all it does is create a false economy. It'll tumble down like a house of cards eventually.

Four weeks and I won't be here any longer and for that fact I'm very grateful.

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Emmigration is a good thing when it is controlled - the problem with Britain is that it has NOT been controlled! The Government don't even know how many immigrants there are - they just do a random survey at a few airports but not at the ports and coach stations. The infrastructure of Britain cannot cope with the influx - this is NOT being racist (whatever that means) but just being practical!

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It was an accident. I got headhunted, and ended up with a mortgage, wife and kids here. After I got here I liked the place, but with a house worth only £50k, it would be hard financially to get on the property ladder in the UK if I wanted to go back.

I cant say I noticed a huge immigrant problem in my week in the motherland, certainly not in terms of absolute numbers compared to Canada where 50% of the population at least are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants. The irony of prospective immigrants complaining about all the foreigners is a common one around here.

I do wonder about people who say they cant afford to get out of their lousy area of the UK, but who are prepared to throw the necessary money at going on an immigration adventure. Immigrating because you have wanderlust, or a taste for adventure or just want to see what its like is perfectly alright I guess, I just wonder about the wisdom of those who are doing it purely for materialistic reasons. I guess some of them end up happy, but there are a lot of other intangible things that might be missing from canadian life that are taken for granted in the UK.

Plenty of people raise kids in the UK alright one way or another, and finding the funds to relocate to Canada and start afresh is certainly no easier than scrimping and saving and doing whats necessary to find a new house and job in another part of the UK. There seemed to be a few places that still seemed to be alright to me.

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i think bear diesel has a point, ! you dont have to be called a racist because you say you dont like the speed this country is filling up no in flux!! 500 000 in one year who you kidding, i dont have a problem with any one who want to work hard and be a nice person to know, but i do have a problem when you cant get a doctor or hospital appointment because there is'nt enough to go around, build more houses and hospitals etc before you let in un controlled amounts of people, why do you think canada and aus, control numbers !

for what good that it will do when new member states join they can come here and bypass any point system, we be better off outside the EU and a few billion pounds better of to, anyway rant over, i guess my roses colour glasses dont have as strong lenses as others