julius smith

guys; i just found these comments about vancouver....>>

http://www.topix.com/forum/ca/vancou...1PJ6BKH1G4GPQ4

yikes! i hope theyre wrong, cos im wanting to head out there soon..

what do those of you living in vancouver think about the place?

dgagitw

I've had a couple of nice trips to Vancouver but I can't say what it's like to live in. What I do know is that if you search for the name of any city on the planet along with 'sucks' you'll find a load of people that hate the place sounding off. Different people like different kinds of places and some just hate everywhere.

Aviator

I feel sure that there are an equal number of people that can come up with as many negative comments on any city. Hopefully the folks in the link you gave have left town or won't want to come back and leave us to our rain soaked hick western Canada city. .

Alan2005

This made me laugh

canadian_critic

Just had a quick look through. Obviously not every one of the 1800 comments, and they do seem to be damning the place in general. I am a little surprised by the number of people claiming to be born in Vancouver who slate the place. Also most of the comments in the first few pages were very much anti-Vancouver. Again a surprise.

I have lived here about 7 years and for me there was really no competition amongst Canadian cities as far as climate goes. Everywhere else seems to have extremes of temperature and in general are far colder. Vancouver's climate is similar to Britain with 3 major exceptions. Firstly it rains in Vancouver a hell of a lot more than anywhere I lived in UK. Sometimes for months on end non-stop. Secondly summers can be much much hotter than UK, but not normally humid, so quite pleasantly hot. And thirdly, the climate here is temperate like UK, but if weather was personality, UK weather would be frequently moody, whereas in Vancouver weather is a raging psycho maniac. It can go from very hot to very wet and then incredibly hot again.

I came to Vancouver with expectations based on the reputation of the place. Good standard of living, very friendly peaceful people, good schools, good medical services, intelligent population. Most of these reputations are, in my experience, completely unfounded, and in many cases the complete opposite of what I think a newbie would find here.

Clearly people have their own reasons and expectations in a place, and you cannot really judge whether you're going to like it simply because a load of people say they do or do not. More importantly question what you're looking for in the move, and research whether Vancouver is likely to offer you this.

When I moved out I was looking for increased standard of living and the belief that my kids would grow up with a better education and become better citizens than they might in UK. However I moved from a really nice place in UK, where we were really happy, with good schooling and few to no local societal issues. I was, however, under the belief that Britain was on a fairly steep downward spiral and how right I was!

Did Vancouver meet my expectations? Well actually no not at all. Almost every aspect of life in Vancouver I have found stressful and unpleasant. I could write a thesis on my experience but I shall refrain from publishing that here. Instead I just want to highlight some key concerns / frustrations. I should remind readers who got this far that these are my opinions, and although you might think I'm generalizing, or even being a bit of a troll, that's the nature of personal opinions. I'm not purporting these to be factual or indicative of what others will experience. I'll focus on areas which I think would be of greatest impact to someone new to Vancouver.

Negative opinions of Vancouver That site link you posted indicates one thing clearly. Vancouver has and is undergoing massive change. It has clearly changed for the worst in the eyes of people born here. Those people have cited the number of immigrants, particularly from Asia, as being the problem. Some would regard that opinion as racist but I don't believe these people are being so. Races ARE different. Customs in one race may be offensive to another. I'm going to be the first to say that I find asians in general quite rude. However I love doing business and working with them. If I was a racist I would have nothing to do with them. Some will kid themselves that finding any difference in race is racism. Well if you want to believe that, you'll think people like me are racist, and then when you meet a real racist you'd be too blindsided to spot him/her

Are Vancouver people friendly and peaceful? To the latter point, the riots showed the very worst side of Vancouver and you should check out the involvement of people in these riots who will probably not be charged, but clearly didn't object to the burning and looting. I don't think they're any better than anywhere else, and possibly worse than anyone could have imagined.

The only people I have found friendly in Vancouver, are those in the area with the worst reputation. The reputation is based on petty prejudices with little factual evidence I actually prefer to take my kids to a park inhabited by homeless people and the odd drunk, rather than a middle to upper middle class contingent. I don't feel threatened or that my kid's safety is jeopardized, and in fact everybody just minds their own business. The snootier parks are populated by Stepford Wives with their fingers poised on the fast dial to 911, and their lawyers. I have actually witness a small incident involving 2 kids on push bikes that in my youthful days, would have gone unnoticed. The mother of one was on the phone to her husband and then her lawyer. Neither kid was injured, they just collided and fell off. A band-aid and some TLC is all that is required. But Vancouver is a very litigious society, at least as bad as I've witnessed in US

Are people friendly? Some are, particularly those who grew up here. But saying that most people I've spoken to are not from here. Either coming from other provinces, or other countries. The Brits I've encountered are very likeable, although I'm a bit biased there. However I find the non indigenous Canadians amongst the worst. People in general seem extremely selfish and impolite, almost rude. Common courtesy is rarely demonstrated in normal Vancouver behaviour. I believe this stems from education and poor parental discipline.

Housing and lifestyle This is a biggie. Vancouver is just about the most expensive city in the world concerning cost of living. Living here is extremely expensive and isn't matched at all by what you'll likely earn here. To me, money plays a massive role in quality of life. You're likely to struggle here financially. Remember many immigrants came to Vancouver when houses were affordable and their standard of living is more bearable. Listening to such people may cast the wrong impression. Moving out of town does save money, and areas like Port Coquitlam and Port Moody are very pleasant. But you may find yourself driving from there, so increased commute time and costs will negatively impact your lifestyle.

Economy Canada unbelievably has a strong economy, although no doubt in part to do with responsible budgeting and spending. Vancouver is about the strongest economy in Canada (I think). So you'd think that things are really looking up here. The truth is that the economic picture is made up of many parts. The economy in Vancouver is skewed because of the investment by foreign investors in property and this seems to have not declined. However do not use economic figures as an indicator as to opportunities for new immigrants.

Jobs and searching for work This is a pretty major one unless you're looking to move with a lottery win. Despite strong economy, jobs in Vancouver seem scarce and salaries are completely mismatched by the costs of living here. You may well find yourself having zero disposable income, or even needing savings to keep you afloat.

Finding a job is the first thing you'll do. Most of the jobs in my sector are known only to people's personal networks. They are never advertised and always filled by friends of friends. This is a major issue for a newbie. Some jobs are advertised but these will be the ones which could not be filled by personal recommendation. There is often a good reason behind this, i.e. salary well under going rate, or company with a terrible reputation.

If you find a job, they'll probably screw you over with a piss-poor benefits package, like a low rate medical and dental plan which may prove to be worse than useless. Also you'll have to negotiate up on 2 weeks holiday which is utterly pathetic.

My main issue is the job search and application process and I've written much on this on BE. Almost nobody advertises salaries, yet they expect you to reveal your salary expectations. This is grossly unfair because you still go to the effort of writing an application even though your expectations may be outside what the company expects to pay, even if your expectations are reasonable. Companies are real cheapskates with salaries.

So you put your application in. If they like you you'll probably get an interview. If they don't you will hear NOTHING. So you'll never actually know if you've been successful or not. Try calling them and you'll be considered and treated as a stalker. You'll also almost certainly blow any opportunity you had.

Alright so you have an interview. I haven't personally found interviews to be remotely challenging here, so perhaps be prepared to deliver as much information as you can even if the interviewer doesn't ask for it. For example I've occasionally said "would it be helpful if I told you about my experience with......". This at least gives them the option and gives me an opportunity to turn a lousy interview into an effective one.

If at any stage of the recruiting process you are rejected you're really unlikely to hear. I've never been told, unless I am being represented by an agent, and they're only persistent because they want their commission. In fact having agency representation does help quite a bit as they do a lot of legwork which doesn't prejudice a candidate, like harass a recruiter into finding out whether they're interested, what the salary would be, how you're doing in the process and sorting all the fine details if you are successful. Saying this, they are also hesitant in sharing bad news, so you might have to chase them to find out you are unsuccessful. Agents are pretty self-centred in general, as they are worldwide, so the moment you're no longer a prospect, it will be you doing the legwork. However they will probably solicit feedback which is essential for squeezing some benefit from your efforts.

Schooling I have been disappointed with the system in North Vancouver schools. The educational standards fill me with deep concerns for my children's future, and keep me awake at night. In fact this is the single most significant reason I would contemplate leaving. There is no discipline in school, and no sense of competitiveness and consequences. For example there is a 'naughty chair' where sitting on it is purely voluntary, so as to not humiliate the child. They do not support competitive spirit at all or selection. For example, Valentines day, every child has to make a card for every other child in their class. Pathetic. Just an over-bearing system ruled by misguided individuals who think they're doing the right thing, but in fact are causing terrible societal damage. Same can be said for allergies. Almost every child seems to have a string of allergies. Because of this you'd be seriously impeded on your choice of lunch materials. The proliferation of allergies is again over-bearing parents, who have failed to allow their children to grow naturally, and destroyed their child's immune system. Why else have allergies gone through the roof over the past 10 years or so, whereas when i was at school I think there was one kid with an allergy and it was down to parents and the child's responsibility to make sure they didn't ingest something they could not.

Cost of living One thing you'll find in Vancouver is costs will generally be higher than you may be used to. But also unexpected costs like medicine or dental treatment can quickly bankrupt you. People always perceived Canada to have free medical services but they are NOT. The provincial plan in Vancouver covers very little, and patient contribution is extreme in cases, like $200 for a small tube of something. Medical insurance helps if you are always ill and pay $300-500 / month. Cheaper plans are worse than useless. You may as well save the money and insure yourself.

Food shopping is generally a bit pricy. You won't find the buy-one-get-one-free offer you see in Britain. Also they rarely mark down food that has to be sold today (i.e. one day validity or old stock). You have to be incredibly careful to not inadvertently pick something up that's been sitting there too long. You'll get naff all discount and when they say 'sell by' they really mean it. The next day that item will be minging in your fridge.

I find going down to US to do most of my shopping really worthwhile. Better choice far better prices on many items. Also I consider the quality to be superior. No hassle on most items at the border, although I'm yet to endure an inspection. But they are clear about what you're allowed and what you're not. Also no bullshit tax on many items which are taxed in Canada. Also no bullshit deposit charges in Washington state. And if you take those items back to a recycling plant here, and they fail to notice, you'll get a small refund making the item even cheaper.

Taxation My impression is that I take home a bit less on the same salary in Vancouver than in UK. Also the whole taxation system puts responsibility on the earner even if you're an employee. The tax system is incomprehensibly confusing so you'll really be forced to use an accountant or a computer based tax filing system. Accountants are not expensive though, although more than DIY methods.

The tax system for goods in undergoing review. It has come down from 14%/5% (tangible items / services) when I moved here to only 12%/5%. They then revised it to be 12% (HST) on everything taxable. This may drop to 10% which will be welcome. There is a lot of opposition on a single tax system although I'm personally behind the slightly lower rate if businesses genuinely save money by having a simple tax system.


Overall Vancouver doesn't live up to it's favourable reputation. Making ends meet is a struggle, but if you find a job and stay in it, then you will probably survive. However if things don't work out, this is the most miserable place to live.

BE is an excellent resource. But be careful in understanding specifically what you're looking for and research in detail to discover whether you'll find that here. The fact that many who come to Vancouver have settled happily does not really suggest that you will, so exercise scrutiny over facts presented here, including my own opinions. Good luck.

Oink

If you've got a very good job and a boat it's livable, if you haven't it's a very dull place.

davidsk

The average house price is $792,000 in February 2011. That is more than double than the national average. Insane!

The salary is not that much different from anywhere else, although they do have slightly less tax.

scrubbedexpat091

I didn't mind Vancouver when I was living there, but I didn't find the city worth living in and having a lower quality of life. Having to share a basement suite with 4 other people for example just to afford housing.

I found it difficult to find a job, took me several months and hundreds of resumes, and I was only applying to unskilled types of jobs in retail, and hotels mainly with some random jobs in other industries.

Aviator

or an aeroplane, who needs a boat!

Sephiroth

@julius
You really take the intetwebz at face value don't you chap?

Consider the source. To find that blog you would have to Google "vancouver sucks" then wade through links. Then you'd have to sign up.

That's not representative of the cities population as it requires commitment beyond the average bloke.

Saying that, no smoke without fire so doubtless there are a few truths. What I presume to be true from reading a few comments I surmise that

-job hunting is even s**ter than TO
-it rains a lot
-there's a homeless/drug problem (every city then)
-yuppie scene
-house prices are gash

jerry brewer

Hi
Maybe i am biased, but then we live here,and there ain't many other places I would like to live,spain maybe if i was fluent in spanish and not effluent in spanish ...as i am.
Vancouver is in our opinion great, and the vast majority of the inhabitants great, I must admitt tho' we have been lucky,with work,property etc.
Five years ago we landed, with the kids & dog, no house, no jobs, but trying out something we knew, if we never did we would always be thinking..
.....What if ........
Cheers
Jerry

The4BellsLondon

I dont think he was being super serious as he has lived here before .

geo4

The locals tried to burn it down the other week. That should tell you all you need to know.

ralphster

Has anyone living on Vancouver Island experienced any of the complaint people have written about in the "Why Vancouver Sucks" post?

I guess you get tonnes of rain for the four winter months as well (about 10% less than Vancouver), but would you say people are generally happier with life, friendlier and have a more positive outlook? (I know it's a big island, but what are your experiences where you live?)

julius smith

it seems all those people who posted on that link that started this thread off, are in the minority....i dont vancouver is THAT bad, is it?!

as people here have said, all cities have something that isnt right...aint no place on earth that is so good that everything is ok...there's gotta be some downsides.

rain? well, who cares if it rains...spent all my life virtually in london where we all know what the weather does!
yuppies? been thru the days of the yuppies in london...filofaxes, porsches, blah, blah...they kept to themselves so why get nasty about them?
jobs? london isnt exactly the hotbed of industry nowadays, is it? every job, and i mean min wage jobs, have 100s of people applying...and its become like the states...if you dont fit, you dont hear anything...gone are the days when you got a rejection letter!
hongcouver? well, the worlds become smaller in that sense...more and more people are moving, so if one race of people finds vancouver nice, then fine, what wrong with that? 'twas the same when my people came over on the "banana boats" from jamaica to england....they congregated in places they liked...brixton, tooting, etc....
job searching? in my books, if youve got reasonable qualifications, whthere transferable or not, youre half way there....going back when i was in ontario, i landed not 1 but 2 jobs within 8 weeks, paying around $45 to $60k...cant say that was bad...!

its horses for courses...to some, vancouver is heaven...to others, its hell!
you could conceivably say that about any city on earth really...