johnh009

The company I work for just puts it down to "reorganisation". Saves them a lot of trouble. I do not know what other companies will put.

JonboyE

It shouldn't be a worry. I've been in Canada for coming up to eleven years and I've not known of anyone being fired simply because their "face didn't fit".

I have always worked in or around the small business sector, in non-unionized environments, and in companies run by cradles and fellow immigrants. I only speak from my experience.

Although I don't know of anyone fired because their face didn't fit, I've know quite a few let go because of their attitude (and this isn't intended to cast any aspersions on previous posters):

* There is the cultural dullard. This is often a very pleasant person but one who just won't acknowledge that "things are done differently around here".

* There is God's gift to mankind. This one knows so much more than everyone else and is not afraid of letting them know.

* There is the malcontent. Worse than God's gift, nothing is ever good enough and don't you know about it?

The essence of a business is that it creates more customer value by collaborative working than people can create on their own. Someone who, wittingly or unwittingly, gets in the way of the company creating that extra value is likely to be let go regardless of their skills. If you keep this in mind you should be fine.

The flip side, of course, is that employers are much more likely to give a newbie a chance if they know they can quickly and easily let them go if it doesn't work out - whether it is the employer's or the employee's fault.

Novocastrian

A quick heads up to Ontarians.... Chris Hedges who was referred to above is about to be interviewed by Alan Gregg on TVO, 6:30 pm EST.

ExKiwilass

Quoted because I agree. I actually don't know many people who have been fired. This thread might make it seem like it happens all the time, but thinking among my acquaintances, I don't know many people it's happened (a) and (b) where it has happened, there's been an extenuating reason like the business is going down the shitter. I was fired from my first job back in the workforce because the business had lost 100,000 dollars in 3 months; the guy admitted as much. It turned out to be a blessing in disguise: I got a much better paid job a week later.

I also agree that the flipside of the hire/fire mentality is that it's easier to find opportunities. And I also don't think the stigma is as bad here as it might be in other countries. For example, I was working in a big firm before my latest job, and people seemed to get let go/re-hired according to need. It was not personal. However, they also got bonuses etc. at the ends of projects to tide them over. Sometimes it's not about you, it's really about whether there is work or not.

Alan2005

Whatever the law says, people where I work don't seem to think they are any more or less secure here than the people in equivalent jobs in the UK. They have mortgages and other normal things that people in relatively secure employment have. The company I work for is a multinational where it's what you know rather than who you know; not sure if this makes any difference as this isn't the normal canadian way apparently.

I'll also admit that I fit into one of JonboyE's stereotypes (but I'm not telling which one it is)

The4BellsLondon

2nd one

jeshas

Welcome to the "american way of life" -- Well, "always look at the bright side": it's also easier to get hired.

Paul_Shepherd

The 3 examples of "attitude" you have given there, are rocking the boat in my opinion, and if these people are forced out as a result, they have only got themselves to blame. I think we all know of those 3 examples no matter where you work!

I feel in Canada "fitting in" is very important and high on the priority list, as long as you are reasonble at your job too.

Alan2005

Everyone is guilty of those attitudes to an extent. In fact an employee who doesn't question the way things are done, doesn't think they are good at their job, and thinks everything is perfect the way it is is no kind of employee at all - at least in any thinking profession.

wheatsheaf

This IS an absolute truth imo. One of the overpowering reasons for the economic failures of governments (whether political, business or financial) is because differences are silenced in the name of 'effectiveness". How many times does this have to be proved in the colossal way it has been already? Set
"matrix's", conformity, and blind subservience kill creativity and progress dont they?. However, if Canada only wants new canadians to be slaves, then the coming years are going to be a rude awakening.

ExKiwilass

Can't say I've experienced blind subservience nor am I expected to conform. I'd say being adaptable and open to new ideas is an advantage.

wheatsheaf

Precisely. This only works if it works both ways in the relationship. Again, the point is that new canadians are necessarily more open and more adaptable, but are faced with a closed minded ultra defensive, easily insulted, ignorant establishment.

ExKiwilass

wheat, where did you live? I'm now curious. you can PM if you'd prefer.

Paul_Shepherd

I agree.... but there is a time to be DEstructive and a time to be ....constructive along with related methods like a nice portion of diplomacy... a pinch of asertiveness.... and zero "i am a know it all" even if a person does....no one does of course....no one is perfect.

wheatsheaf

An intelligent employee, even a shareholder, has a duty to point out when his employer is being Destructive. It is not a question of being a "know it all" when an employee expresses alarm which reflects customers and a majority of colleagues opinions. IMO it is a rare 'know it all' who isnt in management anyway. What is one to do if diplomacy is perceived as 'manipulativeness'. Wasnt this scenario the case with Lehman brothers? Which then begs the question: can Canadian financial reporting regulations be relied upon if employees have to keep their mouths shut to stay employed?