Jeremy James

Greetings folks,

This is my first post on the site and I'm after peoples perspective and opinion on the most notable differences between the UK and Canada, moreover British Colombia and Alberta.

A move to Canada is currently nothing more than a pipe dream and whilst she is on-board, the Wife would need convincing a lot more than myself. A little about ourselves; We reside in Hertfordshire, South East London (35 miles north of London). I am 32 and my Wife is 31 years of age; we've no children (though we plan to have them in the next 12 - 24 months) but we do have the one cat. I'm a serving Police Officer (Metropolitan Police; Detective, qualified as a Sergeant this spring), my Wife is a qualified (degree level) architectural illustrator with 5 years experience. We both love the outdoors (hiking and skiing) and I'm a mountain biking nut!

We hope to do enjoy a 2/3-week holiday/recce to BC and AB next spring (May 011), with a view to get a better feel for Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary.

My main queries (in no particular order) are as follows;

• Cost of living
• Social life and ease of integration for ExPats
• Education
• Criminality
• Healthcare
• The difference socially, financially, employment/education outlooks, municipal support and property prices (renting and purchasing) between Vancouver and Edmonton/Calgary.

Many thanks in advance,

JJ.

Lorry1

Sorry I don't know much about BC or AB but have a couple of questions:
Are you happy in England?
Why are you thinking of leaving?
It seems like you both have great jobs and are probably well off financially and Hertfordshire is a nice place to live.

Hobbess

To quote Pulp Fiction and how I see it:

"It's the little differences. I mean, they got the same s*** over there that we got here, but it's just – it's just there it's a little different."

To elaborate a bit, with the mundane stuff like shopping in a supermarket, costs aren't a whole lot different by the end of a shop. But while shopping you won't buy Walkers crisps you'll buy Lays chips (just an example lets not deviate with a whole debate on the merit of various crisp brands...)

iaink

Well, if skiing and hiking is what you like, then Western Canada can accommodate you.

Cost of living here is probably similar to the UK, some things are more, some are less. Property costs are generally lower here, depending where you go (ie NOT VANCOUVER!)

You cant instantly replace a lifetimes worth of friends, thats the hardest and most underrated part of emmigrating, an absence of common ground. Canadians are friendly enough, but true frendships take a lot of time.

Education....the end results are good here, well rounded kids. There is less emphasis in the school system on testing and ranking kids and schools, and its not without its problems, but education of your kids shouldnt be an issue. A lot depends on how involved a parent is anyway regardless of where they go to school.

Criminality....there is a lot less paranoia about crime here I think... non of the cameras everywhere and constant vigilance. Whether the crime rate is better or worse or the same that in itself makes for a better quality of life I think. Where you live makes a difference. Im in a small community, there is basically no petty crime or vandalism to speak of, its a non issue. People growing illegal substances....wouldnt like to say

healthcare is OK, but you need to be aware of dental and prescription costs. Work related insurance is good to cover those, otherwise that can rack up. The level of care itself though is pretty good, but there can be issues with access to a local GP in some areas.

Vancouver is a lot more expensive, and employment prospects will depend what you do. my take is a lot of people want to live in Vancouver for the climate, so there is more competition for the jobs that are there, but there may or may not be any truth in that. Edmonton or Calgary was actively recruiting UK coppers, not sure if thats still the case.


Having just come back from a trip to the UK it seems to me that if you have a decent well paying job there and live in a better area there is little that Canada can add to your well being other than more weather for skiing and the opportunity to find real mountains a few hours travel away (depending where you are) rather than in Europe. Bare in mind that for many people that two- three week reccie would be their whole vacation allowance for the year

stepnek

I think that sums it up perfectly. Nothing more to add.

Aviator

Hope you find lots of information on BE that can help you make a decision.

The only big differences we found:
More laid back and less hurried.
Spectacular scenery.
People welcoming and friendly.
Opportunity based society. Not quite as much as the US, but more than the UK.


Work environment was pretty much the same
Wage/Cost of living not much different
Education similar, perhaps more of a practical approach
Property prices have come up a lot in Vancouver and Calgary in the last 15 years.

Those that immigrate for the sake of change and new experiences seem to be more successful than those that immigrate to 'get away' from something or don't like where they live now. As has been said 'same s**t different bucket'

Calgary is way more redneck than Vancouver. Not necessarily a bad thing, just different.

TheThornes

Hi JJ

We live in Cochrane, just outside Calgary, and can only comment on how this area perhaps compares with the UK - I don't have any personal knowledge on BC or even Edmonton.

We moved from Surrey about 20 months ago and my husband was also a Police Officer in the Met and is now currently with Calgary Police. I understand that Calgary (and Edmonton) are not currently recruiting overseas officers via the PNP program. However, we've heard of a few that have obtained their PR status independently and have joined Calgary Police thereafter. Have to say, my husband prefers the job aspect here far more compared to the UK.

We already have kids and also moved over with a cat and a dog. All have settled in well. We've only experienced elementary education first hand so far and are very pleased with it. Kids are happy and doing well.

It's certainly a good area for outdoors people, but then I guess that would probably apply to much of Alberta and BC too. My husband and daughter like to ski and, as a family, we go hiking and camping etc. Don't do the mountain biking bit but know of people that do.

If you do come over for a recce next year, you will notice from my signature below that we have a guest suite we rent out here in Cochrane - if you might be interested, let me know and I can email you the details.

Regarding your queries:

Cost of living - swings and roundabouts really. Housing, vehicles (not insurance), petrol and going out tend to be cheaper. Grocery shopping and household utilities are probably on a par with the UK, possibly slightly higher but not much.

Social life and ease of integration of ex-pats - we were fairly outgoing people in the UK, had a good social life etc. Here, even more so! We have a good mix of friends, both Canadian and fellow ex-pats. Lots of ex-pats in the area so everyone seems to make an effort as we're all in the same position - ie. away from our UK friends and family. Everyone in general is very friendly and welcoming.

Education - like I said before, no complaints so far!

Criminality - Obviously there is crime but not too bad. I feel happier about letting my kids out to play here etc on their own. People seem to leave things out in their front gardens or on driveways without the risk of it getting stolen etc. Don't know whether this is the same in the city itself or not. My husband works in a part of the city that has a higher crime rate - a lot of it is drug related etc but even he says it's not as bad as in the UK.

Healthcare - Alberta has a fairly good healthcare system. Many people take out private cover for things such as prescription charges, ambulance costs etc - things that are not covered by Alberta Health. If you did join Calgary Police, they provide additional healthcare cover too. Getting registered with a GP isn't always easy - they seem to be in short supply. However, many areas (including here) have walk-in clinics where you don't need to be registered.

Basically, to sum up, we are more than happy here and have no intention of returning to the UK. Attitudes seem so much more positive here. We got fed up with the negativity in the UK.

Anyway, don't hesitate to contact me if there is anything else I can help you with.

All the best.

ExKiwilass

Don't know Calgary at all, but my impression of Edmonton is that people are more welcoming than Van. My friend describes Edmonton as being the biggest small town you'll ever go to, and I think there is some truth to that. It has that small town feel while being over a million people. I felt very comfortable there. However, I also find it a lot less diverse and energetic than Vancouver. And in the beauty stakes, though Edmonton is very green right now, it's kinda blah looking. Lots of highways, lower rise buildings. Things are very spread out. Van is just stunning in my opinion. Also, no mountains near Edmonton.

I think there are real cultural differences between the Lower mainland/van and the prairies. My impression is it's a lot more conservative in Alberta - there's more of that big truck north american lifestyle over there, more resistance to taking transit, etc. Van is more left-wing, liberal, crunchy.

dthomas

Thread drift: A hamburger is a hamburger motherlicker - NOT a frakkin' Royale with Cheese or a Big Kahuna Burger! Say 'what' again. Say 'what' again, I dare you, I double dare you motherlicker, say what one more Goddamn time!

el_richo

What?



.

iaink

Not very helpful or relevant was it... I guess we've all seen the movie anyway by now, wasnt it early 90s?

Anyway, if we could dispense with the thread drift that would be nice...

Bill_S

A few other differences that are commonly noted by expats:

houses are generally larger in N. America - more living space but also that means more furniture to buy and more housecleaning

points of interest can be very spread out, and distances are great (it's a BIG country) - count on doing considerably more driving

when interacting with Canadian banks, you'll feel like you've gone back in time 100 years

lack of familiar English foodstuffs in Canadian stores really bothers some people

in general, the "Canadian way" of doing X, Y, or Z will be different from the "English way" - buying a house, getting a mobile phone, getting a driving license, and so on - it takes some getting used to and some expats really never adapt.

Piff Poff

Hey JJ,

We did the whole immigration thing with very little thought really, 3 nights in Totonto, 2 in Niagra and we put our PR application in (we moved form Bedfordshire so not to far away from yourselves). The following year we did a 2 week recce in an RV and drove non stop (so it seemed) for 2 weeks around AB and BC, OH got a job offer in Red Deer and so this is where we landed, we would have accepted in any of the larger towns in AB but not Calgary or Edmonton as we are not City people.

Fo some reason we preferred the 'vibe' of AB to BC, dunno why, but we still feel that way, but that's personal choice.

5 yearson on we are still relatively happy that we chose to move to Canada, the last 12 months have been super stressy but that's life and nothing to do with Canada itself.

We didn't consider the things we did in our free time before we moved, we just assumed we would find the same sort of stuff (evidenced from our recce), we just didn't factor the whole 'distance' type thing, also didn't consider my job transferability and lack of vacation and lack of cheap vacations, we didn't realise that was such an important part of our UK life.

Have a very good read of the Moving Back to the UK forum as well as this one and try to get a balanced view from both. Try also to get a couple of reccies in. I would also consider moving eleswhere in the UK, I wish sometimes we had done but we were so hellbent on moving countries, moving counties didn't even cross our minds.

G77

Agree that this is definitely underrated - I hadn't given much thought to it, but nearly 2 years here and I haven't made any significant non ex-pat friends. Doesn't help that I work from home, no one in the office to banter with (though I suspect that's probably frowned upon here anyway ). The wife has found the same and she goes out to more places and meets more people, but has still found it difficult to make any meaningful friendships.

Jeremy James

What fantastic replies, thank you all very much (including the Pulp Fiction fans.. ) and thank you also for the kind offer of accommodation (The Thornes)

The very first questions posed were by 'Lorry1';
Good questions/points, to answer them then;

1. I'm thinking of convincing my Wife (and myself) to leave the UK because life is too short and there's a lot of world out there to explore. I've always said to her that it would be a regret of mine if we spent the rest of our lives living (and eventually dying) in North Hertfordshire and not at least giving somewhere like North America a go. I'm keen to explore, enjoy variety and relish a challenge in life. I'm ex-Military and since I became a Police Officer, have diversified my experience by changing roles every couple of years. I think this an inherent trait of mine and something that is just 'me'.
   
2. As alluded to earlier, we wish to have a family and I'm not so keen on the England that I live in anymore. Granted, I see a lot of the negative and darker side to the UK but it isn't as simple blaming it on my occupation. England, particularly the south-east is in such a rush nowadays. People lack common courtesy towards one another and a lot of the youth slide into the unfortunate (and idiot) chav/yob culture. I've very little desire to have my family raised in an area they could become exposed to this.
   
3. Lack of space (63 million people in a country with 93,000sq miles of space compared to 34 million in 3.8 million sq miles in Canada). Litter, mess, graffiti, too much traffic and congestion, a creaking transport network/infrastructure and general lack of respect for your fellow man and woman.

I recognize that Canada is by no means a Utopia and that it brings its own set of issues and difficulties to overcome. I'm simply chewing over the consideration of when you weigh both countries up, hand in hand, which is the better for an aspiring young family? Which country offers the brightest prospects for a couple such as ourselves, both professionally and recreationally speaking, not to mention the overall quality of life?

Employment wise, I would plan to transfer in to the relevant Police Service and my Wife would seek to be gainfully employed in either illustration or graphic design. I'm currently in discussion with the VPD, just checking the lay of the land regarding their current and projected recruitment outlook, particularly for international applicants. I hope to have a reply this week. We've conducted no further research into the intricacies of moving to Canada and when I say 'We've' I really mean 'I' of course...

I have done a fair degree of reading on the Calgary Police Service looking for UK Police Officers, but this was, as mentioned by The Thornes, some time ago. As an aside, @ The Thornes - What did your husband do in the MPS and what does he do now? I would be very grateful if I could perhaps PM you a list of questions for him, please?

I'll mention it only in passing, but there is nothing wrong with our current circumstances; we have a small core of excellent friends, I am one of six (I'm the youngest) brothers, we enjoy our home, our respective professions and home environment - life is good. On the subject of parents, both of mine passed away a long time ago, whilst my Wifes are in their early sixties (mother in law in ever so slowly declining health). So why move? Well, why not?

Other than the points already outlined above, part of my feeling is difficult to articulate. It could be a simple fear of the regret I think I would feel if we didn't try. It could be that I'm getting progressively more and more fed up with the cramped Isle that is the UK. It could be that my tolerance for anti-social types and the lack of common courtesy and manners is beginning to get stretched. It could be that I think that Canada is simply a better place to raise my () future children and offer my family a better quality of life.

What will help, I'm sure is our recce trip next year.

What recommendations do people have for ensuring the best possible way of seeing the relevant areas and completing a successful fact finding trip?

Thank you again,

JJ.