The Difference?
 

Greetings folks,

This is my first post on the site and I'm after peoples perspective and opinion on the most notable differences between the UK and Canada, moreover British Colombia and Alberta.

A move to Canada is currently nothing more than a pipe dream and whilst she is on-board, the Wife would need convincing a lot more than myself. A little about ourselves; We reside in Hertfordshire, South East London (35 miles north of London). I am 32 and my Wife is 31 years of age; we've no children (though we plan to have them in the next 12 - 24 months) but we do have the one cat. I'm a serving Police Officer (Metropolitan Police; Detective, qualified as a Sergeant this spring), my Wife is a qualified (degree level) architectural illustrator with 5 years experience. We both love the outdoors (hiking and skiing) and I'm a mountain biking nut! :D

We hope to do enjoy a 2/3-week holiday/recce to BC and AB next spring (May 011), with a view to get a better feel for Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary.

My main queries (in no particular order) are as follows;

• Cost of living
• Social life and ease of integration for ExPats
• Education
• Criminality
• Healthcare
• The difference socially, financially, employment/education outlooks, municipal support and property prices (renting and purchasing) between Vancouver and Edmonton/Calgary.

Many thanks in advance,

JJ. :thumbsup:

Re: The Difference?
 

Sorry I don't know much about BC or AB but have a couple of questions:
Are you happy in England?
Why are you thinking of leaving?
It seems like you both have great jobs and are probably well off financially and Hertfordshire is a nice place to live.

Re: The Difference?
 

To quote Pulp Fiction and how I see it:

"It's the little differences. I mean, they got the same s*** over there that we got here, but it's just – it's just there it's a little different."

To elaborate a bit, with the mundane stuff like shopping in a supermarket, costs aren't a whole lot different by the end of a shop. But while shopping you won't buy Walkers crisps you'll buy Lays chips (just an example lets not deviate with a whole debate on the merit of various crisp brands...;))

Re: The Difference?
 

Well, if skiing and hiking is what you like, then Western Canada can accommodate you.

Cost of living here is probably similar to the UK, some things are more, some are less. Property costs are generally lower here, depending where you go (ie NOT VANCOUVER!)

You cant instantly replace a lifetimes worth of friends, thats the hardest and most underrated part of emmigrating, an absence of common ground. Canadians are friendly enough, but true frendships take a lot of time.

Education....the end results are good here, well rounded kids. There is less emphasis in the school system on testing and ranking kids and schools, and its not without its problems, but education of your kids shouldnt be an issue. A lot depends on how involved a parent is anyway regardless of where they go to school.

Criminality....there is a lot less paranoia about crime here I think... non of the cameras everywhere and constant vigilance. Whether the crime rate is better or worse or the same that in itself makes for a better quality of life I think. Where you live makes a difference. Im in a small community, there is basically no petty crime or vandalism to speak of, its a non issue. People growing illegal substances....wouldnt like to say:sneaky:

healthcare is OK, but you need to be aware of dental and prescription costs. Work related insurance is good to cover those, otherwise that can rack up. The level of care itself though is pretty good, but there can be issues with access to a local GP in some areas.

Vancouver is a lot more expensive, and employment prospects will depend what you do. my take is a lot of people want to live in Vancouver for the climate, so there is more competition for the jobs that are there, but there may or may not be any truth in that. Edmonton or Calgary was actively recruiting UK coppers, not sure if thats still the case.


Having just come back from a trip to the UK it seems to me that if you have a decent well paying job there and live in a better area there is little that Canada can add to your well being other than more weather for skiing and the opportunity to find real mountains a few hours travel away (depending where you are) rather than in Europe. Bare in mind that for many people that two- three week reccie would be their whole vacation allowance for the year:)

Re: The Difference?
 

I think that sums it up perfectly. Nothing more to add.

Re: The Difference?
 

Hope you find lots of information on BE that can help you make a decision.

The only big differences we found:
More laid back and less hurried.
Spectacular scenery.
People welcoming and friendly.
Opportunity based society. Not quite as much as the US, but more than the UK.


Work environment was pretty much the same
Wage/Cost of living not much different
Education similar, perhaps more of a practical approach
Property prices have come up a lot in Vancouver and Calgary in the last 15 years.

Those that immigrate for the sake of change and new experiences seem to be more successful than those that immigrate to 'get away' from something or don't like where they live now. As has been said 'same s**t different bucket'

Calgary is way more redneck than Vancouver. Not necessarily a bad thing, just different.

Re: The Difference?
 

Hi JJ

We live in Cochrane, just outside Calgary, and can only comment on how this area perhaps compares with the UK - I don't have any personal knowledge on BC or even Edmonton.

We moved from Surrey about 20 months ago and my husband was also a Police Officer in the Met and is now currently with Calgary Police. I understand that Calgary (and Edmonton) are not currently recruiting overseas officers via the PNP program. However, we've heard of a few that have obtained their PR status independently and have joined Calgary Police thereafter. Have to say, my husband prefers the job aspect here far more compared to the UK.

We already have kids and also moved over with a cat and a dog. All have settled in well. We've only experienced elementary education first hand so far and are very pleased with it. Kids are happy and doing well.

It's certainly a good area for outdoors people, but then I guess that would probably apply to much of Alberta and BC too. My husband and daughter like to ski and, as a family, we go hiking and camping etc. Don't do the mountain biking bit but know of people that do.

If you do come over for a recce next year, you will notice from my signature below that we have a guest suite we rent out here in Cochrane - if you might be interested, let me know and I can email you the details.

Regarding your queries:

Cost of living - swings and roundabouts really. Housing, vehicles (not insurance), petrol and going out tend to be cheaper. Grocery shopping and household utilities are probably on a par with the UK, possibly slightly higher but not much.

Social life and ease of integration of ex-pats - we were fairly outgoing people in the UK, had a good social life etc. Here, even more so! We have a good mix of friends, both Canadian and fellow ex-pats. Lots of ex-pats in the area so everyone seems to make an effort as we're all in the same position - ie. away from our UK friends and family. Everyone in general is very friendly and welcoming.

Education - like I said before, no complaints so far!

Criminality - Obviously there is crime but not too bad. I feel happier about letting my kids out to play here etc on their own. People seem to leave things out in their front gardens or on driveways without the risk of it getting stolen etc. Don't know whether this is the same in the city itself or not. My husband works in a part of the city that has a higher crime rate - a lot of it is drug related etc but even he says it's not as bad as in the UK.

Healthcare - Alberta has a fairly good healthcare system. Many people take out private cover for things such as prescription charges, ambulance costs etc - things that are not covered by Alberta Health. If you did join Calgary Police, they provide additional healthcare cover too. Getting registered with a GP isn't always easy - they seem to be in short supply. However, many areas (including here) have walk-in clinics where you don't need to be registered.

Basically, to sum up, we are more than happy here and have no intention of returning to the UK. Attitudes seem so much more positive here. We got fed up with the negativity in the UK.

Anyway, don't hesitate to contact me if there is anything else I can help you with.

All the best.

Re: The Difference?
 

Don't know Calgary at all, but my impression of Edmonton is that people are more welcoming than Van. My friend describes Edmonton as being the biggest small town you'll ever go to, and I think there is some truth to that. It has that small town feel while being over a million people. I felt very comfortable there. However, I also find it a lot less diverse and energetic than Vancouver. And in the beauty stakes, though Edmonton is very green right now, it's kinda blah looking. Lots of highways, lower rise buildings. Things are very spread out. Van is just stunning in my opinion. Also, no mountains near Edmonton.

I think there are real cultural differences between the Lower mainland/van and the prairies. My impression is it's a lot more conservative in Alberta - there's more of that big truck north american lifestyle over there, more resistance to taking transit, etc. Van is more left-wing, liberal, crunchy.

Re: The Difference?
 

Thread drift: A hamburger is a hamburger motherlicker - NOT a frakkin' Royale with Cheese or a Big Kahuna Burger! Say 'what' again. Say 'what' again, I dare you, I double dare you motherlicker, say what one more Goddamn time!

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/1232903709...ass%20mofo.gif

Re: The Difference?
 

What?



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Re: The Difference?
 

Not very helpful or relevant was it... I guess we've all seen the movie anyway by now, wasnt it early 90s?

Anyway, if we could dispense with the thread drift that would be nice...

Re: The Difference?
 

A few other differences that are commonly noted by expats:

houses are generally larger in N. America - more living space but also that means more furniture to buy and more housecleaning

points of interest can be very spread out, and distances are great (it's a BIG country) - count on doing considerably more driving

when interacting with Canadian banks, you'll feel like you've gone back in time 100 years

lack of familiar English foodstuffs in Canadian stores really bothers some people

in general, the "Canadian way" of doing X, Y, or Z will be different from the "English way" - buying a house, getting a mobile phone, getting a driving license, and so on - it takes some getting used to and some expats really never adapt.

Re: The Difference?
 

Hey JJ,

We did the whole immigration thing with very little thought really, 3 nights in Totonto, 2 in Niagra and we put our PR application in (we moved form Bedfordshire so not to far away from yourselves). The following year we did a 2 week recce in an RV and drove non stop (so it seemed) for 2 weeks around AB and BC, OH got a job offer in Red Deer and so this is where we landed, we would have accepted in any of the larger towns in AB but not Calgary or Edmonton as we are not City people.

Fo some reason we preferred the 'vibe' of AB to BC, dunno why, but we still feel that way, but that's personal choice.

5 yearson on we are still relatively happy that we chose to move to Canada, the last 12 months have been super stressy but that's life and nothing to do with Canada itself.

We didn't consider the things we did in our free time before we moved, we just assumed we would find the same sort of stuff (evidenced from our recce), we just didn't factor the whole 'distance' type thing, also didn't consider my job transferability and lack of vacation and lack of cheap vacations, we didn't realise that was such an important part of our UK life.

Have a very good read of the Moving Back to the UK forum as well as this one and try to get a balanced view from both. Try also to get a couple of reccies in. I would also consider moving eleswhere in the UK, I wish sometimes we had done but we were so hellbent on moving countries, moving counties didn't even cross our minds.

Re: The Difference?
 

Agree that this is definitely underrated - I hadn't given much thought to it, but nearly 2 years here and I haven't made any significant non ex-pat friends. Doesn't help that I work from home, no one in the office to banter with (though I suspect that's probably frowned upon here anyway :confused:). The wife has found the same and she goes out to more places and meets more people, but has still found it difficult to make any meaningful friendships.

Re: The Difference?
 

What fantastic replies, thank you all very much (including the Pulp Fiction fans.. ;)) and thank you also for the kind offer of accommodation (The Thornes:thumbup:)

The very first questions posed were by 'Lorry1';
Good questions/points, to answer them then;

1. I'm thinking of convincing my Wife (and myself) to leave the UK because life is too short and there's a lot of world out there to explore. I've always said to her that it would be a regret of mine if we spent the rest of our lives living (and eventually dying) in North Hertfordshire and not at least giving somewhere like North America a go. I'm keen to explore, enjoy variety and relish a challenge in life. I'm ex-Military and since I became a Police Officer, have diversified my experience by changing roles every couple of years. I think this an inherent trait of mine and something that is just 'me'.
   
2. As alluded to earlier, we wish to have a family and I'm not so keen on the England that I live in anymore. Granted, I see a lot of the negative and darker side to the UK but it isn't as simple blaming it on my occupation. England, particularly the south-east is in such a rush nowadays. People lack common courtesy towards one another and a lot of the youth slide into the unfortunate (and idiot) chav/yob culture. I've very little desire to have my family raised in an area they could become exposed to this.
   
3. Lack of space (63 million people in a country with 93,000sq miles of space compared to 34 million in 3.8 million sq miles in Canada). Litter, mess, graffiti, too much traffic and congestion, a creaking transport network/infrastructure and general lack of respect for your fellow man and woman.

I recognize that Canada is by no means a Utopia and that it brings its own set of issues and difficulties to overcome. I'm simply chewing over the consideration of when you weigh both countries up, hand in hand, which is the better for an aspiring young family? Which country offers the brightest prospects for a couple such as ourselves, both professionally and recreationally speaking, not to mention the overall quality of life?

Employment wise, I would plan to transfer in to the relevant Police Service and my Wife would seek to be gainfully employed in either illustration or graphic design. I'm currently in discussion with the VPD, just checking the lay of the land regarding their current and projected recruitment outlook, particularly for international applicants. I hope to have a reply this week. We've conducted no further research into the intricacies of moving to Canada and when I say 'We've' I really mean 'I' of course... :)

I have done a fair degree of reading on the Calgary Police Service looking for UK Police Officers, but this was, as mentioned by The Thornes, some time ago. As an aside, @ The Thornes - What did your husband do in the MPS and what does he do now? I would be very grateful if I could perhaps PM you a list of questions for him, please?

I'll mention it only in passing, but there is nothing wrong with our current circumstances; we have a small core of excellent friends, I am one of six (I'm the youngest) brothers, we enjoy our home, our respective professions and home environment - life is good. On the subject of parents, both of mine passed away a long time ago, whilst my Wifes are in their early sixties (mother in law in ever so slowly declining health). So why move? Well, why not?

Other than the points already outlined above, part of my feeling is difficult to articulate. It could be a simple fear of the regret I think I would feel if we didn't try. It could be that I'm getting progressively more and more fed up with the cramped Isle that is the UK. It could be that my tolerance for anti-social types and the lack of common courtesy and manners is beginning to get stretched. It could be that I think that Canada is simply a better place to raise my (:fingerscrossed:) future children and offer my family a better quality of life.

What will help, I'm sure is our recce trip next year.

What recommendations do people have for ensuring the best possible way of seeing the relevant areas and completing a successful fact finding trip?

Thank you again,

JJ.

Re: The Difference?
 

Hi JJ,

Those are all the reasons why we left England 3 years ago, apart from my hubby's in IT, I'm a Travel Agent and we already had 2 kids : )

We moved around quite alot in the UK, but always in a 10 mile radius, and it was always our dream to live in Canada.

We lived in Berkshire, and in hindsight I wish we would have tried somewhere else in England before bringing the family all this way.

I miss my friends that I had for years. I miss the close proximity to Europe and great cheap holidays there. I miss my nephews and nieces and my brother who will be getting married next year and starting his new family.

There is nothing really I don't like about Canada and it really is a great place to bring up the kids. I feel safer here and I feel more comfortable letting them play outside.
Travel is more expensive, both in canada and international and there are not as many choices regarding food, clothes etc.

Good luck with whatever you do : )

Re: The Difference?
 

Hi JJ. By all means PM me if you want to ask my husband any questions - I think you might need to post three times before you can send a private message. He spent the last few years in a specialist unit at Heathrow and, prior to that, had been based at both Wimbledon and Walworth. :)

Re: The Difference?
 

@ Lorry1 - if I might ask, how often do family and friends visit you and conversely, you to the UK? I guess not often enough? Also, I accept your point regarding a different part of the UK prior to departing for Canada. It's a very valid point.

@ The Thornes - What a coincidence, I also work on a specialsit plain clothes unit at Heathrow. Thank you for your offer re the PM, I shall take you up on it as soon as I'm able. :)

Re: The Difference?
 

I'd like to answer here if I may? We have been here 5 years, the 1st 2 years my MIL and Stepson visited, we have also had two lots of friends visit - that's it. We have been back twice for funerals (in laws).

However some close friends have nothing but rounds of visitors year after year, week after week during the summer, all their holiday allowance is used ferrying people around, they always say yes to visitors as they feel obliged.

I am hoping my Mum comes this year, now looking unlikely as she is in hospital again.

As for accommodation whilst on reccy, we used an RV for ease of getting around and seeing as much as poss. Any type of temporary accommodation will give you a holiday feel, so choose the type needed for your reccy.

You mentioned about your MIL's slowly declining health, think very hard about how your wife will feel when she gets calls about how poorly her Mum is. It's not just a 8 hour flight away when things look shakey.

Re: The Difference?
 

Yes, a coincidence indeed. Just mentioned your name to my husband and he remembers you - he is Colin Thorne - left Heathrow about 21 months ago.

Re: The Difference?
 

Two important factors for sure.

The potential for limited vacation time could be a pain and easily minimise the number of quality visits with family/friends as well as your own private holidays.

The fact that your MIL is having health issues could also be a HUGE factor for causing issues. I initially moved over to Vancouver in 2006, not long after my dad was diagnosed with cancer. NEVER underestimate the distance between Canada and the UK when these situations arise. Yes you can just hop on a plane but psychologically it's much much more difficult.



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Re: The Difference?
 

Not many times before your two weeks of annual holiday are used up.

Re: The Difference?
 

You're darn tooting :)

I had a heated discussion with a Canadian the other week about the shiteness of holiday entitlement. He argued that it should remain the same because when he were younger and working they survived and so should the young'uns of today.

Silly old sod.

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Re: The Difference?
 

I have been back to UK once. Parents have been her once (and it was bloody awful, never again)
My hubbys parents are elderly and deathly ill, always in and out of hospital for one thing or another. They cannot come here cos no one will insure them and we haven't been able to afford to go back there too often.

You are torn between spending your precious holiday time flying back to England to visit people and having quality family holidays (not in England). This year we are having a family holiday in Bermuda as we haven't had one in a few years and are not going to England, which means we don't see anyone.

You must do what you think is best for you and your (future) family. Leaving England always seems like the best thing to do and if you don't try living somewhere else, you may regret it for the rest of your life. You have a real immigration itch which has to be scratched ;)

At least you can return if you are not happy as your kids will be extremley young and won't know any different.
For us, we have to wait 3 years for my 15 year old to finish school here as she is at a crucial stage (they finish at 18 here in NS). I feel trapped and just want to go home :(

Good luck :)

Re: The Difference?
 

Maybe. I've been in Canada since 1981. I suppose in that time I've had about five weeks of actual holiday. "Holiday" in this context being a planned trip away with no business dimension. Two weeks of that have been since last Christmas. When away I'm available by email or telephone and will work if something of any urgency comes up. I'm considered the office slacker, other people don't take any holiday at all, it's just not a local tradition. This is a bone of contention with our US associates, Americans don't take much vacation but have a tradition of being difficult to contact while they're gone, something the Canadians in our office don't understand at all.

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One option is for everyone to meet up in the Caribbean somewhere... obviously not those too infirm to travel, but you know what I mean. Worked well for us anyway.

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What an outstandingly poor idea. If the choice is between using one's fortnight for domestic obligations and living with the guilt of having a real holiday instead, cluttering the real holiday with the children of one's siblings seems like the worst possible alternative.

Re: The Difference?
 

Depends if you like them or not doesnt it? I rather like mine. You could meet up with old childless friends too, there is no obligation to make it a family thing. We get away from the Canadian winter, they get away from the UKs drecht weather, its all good.

Re: The Difference?
 

Several years ago my nephew (Souvette's nephew) indicated that, if he won the lottery, he'd take the "whole family" on holiday for a year.

I still have the nightmares.

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:rofl:

Re: The Difference?
 

An interesting point and one a quick look at the map will tell you that the vast majority of that 34 million live in very dense (US style) cities with large houses on small suburban lots. Don’t get me wrong the space is there, just outside the cities if you can afford it, or between them if you don’t mind the drive or separation
Think about the numbers, I think its 25% of the population of Canada live in the Golden Horse region of Ontario, a population density identical to England. Given that most cites in Canada are very similar in nature, you’ll find that population densities in most populated regions (cities) are very similar to England, it’s the empty gaps in between that skew the numbers.

The transport network and or infrastructure is worse here, not for lack of tax dollars, but just the huge distances stretch that number to breaking point. Then throw a Canadian winter at it and it falls apart.. We don’t have public transport as you would understand it, just some busses and trains for those that can’t afford cars, consider it transport for the underclasses.
Most of our cities suffer from traffic congestion, partly due to the one car per person mentality and partly due to lack of public transport, throw in the fact that we generally drive bigger cars and SUV’s and in some places ‘trucks’ as the norm, that congestion takes on a whole new level of toxicity.

By the way when the snow clears in spring, you get to see our litter and mess, although I do think Canadians are a bit better at cleaning it up, our real contribution to mess is kept up north and called the tar sands..

And while I’m being negative, Canadian’s generally appear to be friendly and caring, although I often consider this to be more show than reality. It all falls apart when you consider their attitude to the indigenous native population!

Re: The Difference?
 

I think this is one of those 'depends where you are' things. According to my Edmonton peeps transit there is a. shite and b. for the poor, however that is far from true where I live in Van. Plenty of fancy Italian suit wearers going downtown on the 135 bus, skytrain etc. Transit, depending on where you are, can be v. good. This is one of those cultural differences I alluded to before. I take transit every day and I see a real mix of people.

Also, due to lack of snow we don't get the litter/mess thing after winter.

re: indigenous. sadly, this is a similar issue in Australia and to a much lesser extent NZ too. Colonization has been bad for the indigenous people in many countries.

Re: The Difference?
 

As suspected, VPD aren't recruiting, here are extracts from their reply. Et voila!

and....

So a fairly bleak appraisal of a potential Police transfer to Vancouver. If it happened it would take a monumental amount of energy, time and money to pull off. Can't say that I'm too disheartened by it to be honest as in a way it makes my mind up for me.

As 'The Thornes' have mentioned previously, her husband is an Officer with Calgary Police Service. I've fired off a similar e-mail to their recruitment team and await their answer. In the meantime, I'll PM you ('The Thornes') those questions as discussed. Thanks again.

All of your comments regarding the Canadian 'holiday' ethic makes interesting reading. I had no idea. If I were successful with the relevant Police Service I like to think they offer more than just a fortnights leave?!

@ MikeUK - Thanks also for your comments. You may feel that they're negative but you offer a different slant on matters; congestion, litter, population Vs landscape. Excuse the 'bone' question but I presume that you're an Ex-Brit? What is your profession and how long have you been in Canada, please?

Thanks,

JJ.

Ps - I was slightly disappointed with the VPD Officer responsible for Internaitonal Enquiries. Not being able to furnish me with their pension details was particularly poor and their attempts to put me in touch with an ex-British VPD Officer border on the apathetic side.

Re: The Difference?
 

Not in Calgary.

Not in Calgary. There is congestion, but congestion in Calgary is far less than, say, congestion in Burton on Trent and would not compare to congestion in Manchester/Birmingham etc. or for that matter Cheltenham. I see Kiwilass has made a similar point.

Maybe people in Ontario don`t put their garbage away, they do in Calgary. England doesn`t have tar sands, but it does have open cast mining and "scars" such as the Newbury bypass, anyone remember Swampy?:p

What does the current population of Canada do to deserve such a comment. We won`t mention what the British did to the indigenous populations of their former colonies.

Re: The Difference?
 

Unfortunately, any form of transfer from an occupation in the UK to a similar occupation in Canada is likely to involve a transitional period where salary loss and loss of seniority is to be expected. An expectation to be able to transfer painlessly and easily to a new employer is a tad optimistic. Most of us on here have endured such a transition.

Ask yourself this: How easily would a Canadian Police Officer be able to transfer to the Met at the moment? Would you expect them to retain their salary/seniority from the VPD?

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I've not been to Regina, or any of the other cities where the aboriginal population is considered to be a problem, but, in Toronto, I step over the aboriginal people as they lay across the pavement. Just last evening I restrained my dog from licking one such person. I personally don't much care about their state, but there is an argument that, in a caring society, the descendants of the original population of the country should not be living rough on city streets.

Re: The Difference?
 

Im not sure I identify particulary with the holiday ethic, its very employer dependent I suspect. Police officer will get more than two weeks anyway.

As for mikes observations there is much truth in them. The SE may be crowded, but there are stil remarkable tracts of green land that I hadnt really noticed until a recent visit. The footpaths everywhere, it doesnt happen here. My Father gets around the SE mostly by public transit, he rarely drives now.

Traffic can be bad, but it can be bad here. Things like traffic news cutting in on the radio there you take for granted (not to mention freeview and the like too), nothing like that here. I was able to drive more or less non stop from Bedford to Fife on the motorways and back, and around the M25 to Surrey and back, and up to Sheffield with no hold ups at all, its not all doom and gloom, through all those stunningly varied landscapes, with all those regional quirks. You would have to drive for a week here to experience similar variety.

If you have a decent job and live in a decent area and have a network of friends there then you owe it to yourself to think long and hard about what you are potentially giving up.

Life for kids depends on the parents more than the location, I met many happy settled kids on my trip back, their parents would be nuts to take a leap of faith on a move to Canada for the sake of better skiing and a larger house to clean. But once that "grass is greener" genie is out of the bottle is very very hard to push it back in again...

Re: The Difference?
 

I'm an Ex-Brit married to a Canadian with two Canadian son’s, I’m a senior scientist for a major North American brewer, so you could say I have one of those good jobs every bodies dreaming of finding when they get here, and you’d be right. I’ve been here a total of about nine years, two in London ON a smaller city according to Canadians but more of a large town, and the last 7 years in the GTA some in suburban Brampton which is best described as a cultural melting pot with the visual appeal of Milton Keynes, and more recently in Cheltenham in the Caledon region which I would describe as very pleasant on the eye, if not the pocket.

One upside of my profession is that I get to travel and work in many locations around North America so you get to see many of the places warts and all. I have also had the luxury of taking a road trip around eastern Canada and driving from Toronto to Alaska, so I’ve seen quite a bit of Canada cities and the vast empty places too.

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It's only good if the route favours your commute and/or you live downtown (Vancouver). The lack of variation and extensive usability in Greater Vancouver is what makes it crappola.


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Re: The Difference?
 

Yup. My commute now that I go east sucks ass. But at least I can use transit, as opposed to having none, and actually the route is very scenic and relaxing.