Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

We seriously considered moving to Italy from the UK several years ago, but for the following reasons decided against it:

Too expensive - the lifestyle/property/business we wanted would have meant having at least the same debt level as the UK, if not higher (and we weren't looking to move to a major city).

Language - we speak reasonable Italian, but certainly not to a level that we'd be able to conduct business. It would restrict our options (and therefore income) for a number of years until fluent.

Economy - not the most stable.

Location - we wanted hot, dry summers and easy access to winter skiing. That was unfeasible mostly due to the cost of areas that attracted us.

Moving around Europe doesn't necessarily provide easy solutions, more cash in your pocket, or the opportunities that Canada does. Moving here has ticked most of the boxes that we considered important. I no longer have a commute, my debt v asset ratio has altered hugely, the climate suits us better, crime is far less obvious, people are friendlier (less insular) and most importantly, we're happier.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Actually, I was the only non-Canadian sitting out there and sometimes there would be up to 10 of us playing cards, having a drink or just sitting talking and not all that uncomfortable when bundled up.

i know they're the worst areas of town, that's why I mentioned them. I have friends and family in both and often used Scarborough to get downtown depending on train/bus times but I know how to act and handle myself in places that have bad reputations. Not hanging around strip malls being my first and best tip!!

Well I'm in my mid 20s, most of the neighbours are between 30-60 and they all know each other, have gone to some peoples' cottage, helped build a new fence with others, cleared the driveway for a few of them and so on but I will say it's a lot easier to be a good and friendly neighbour when you're not in an apartment building as there's less you can do to accidentally p!$$ them off

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

You certainly started an emotive topic! People have moved around the world ever since we found a way to do so. It is a sense of adventure, trying something different, going into the unknown. Now though we have the luxury of traveling and finding out more about each place before we move. What appeals to one may not appeal to another, each individual has their own reasons.

When one grows up, or spends a long time somewhere, it is easy to become blasé about it and not recognize what it has to offer. There are more people moving into Britain than out, however does this mean it is better? Better for some and not others perhaps.

We moved to Canada as an adventure, we thought a change would be good and fancied Canada. Europe held no appeal to us whatsoever. We have been fortunate and have done and continue to do many things we think would have been unlikely in Britain or other parts of Europe. Many Europeans I believe still think of Canada as a bit of a frontier, somewhere still to be explored. We just don't have to catch our own food anymore and birch bark canoes have been replaced by the Greyhound.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I guess the advantage I have is that I don't have to look for a job. So, it really is like being on holiday most of the time. I work, but from home and on my own schedule.

What don't you like about the education system in Spain? While I was there, my brother was there with his family as well and sent his 5 yr old son to the local Spanish state school. He spoke no Spanish. But, he was very happy in the school, made friends, the teacher was very attentive and he learnt a lot. My mother who was a teacher in Canada compared the study materials and said that the level of education was higher than Canada in many cases. The schools here, specially in large towns are a mess. Discipline problems are horrendous and the teachers are afraid to discipline the children.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Mostly the fact that that growth is concentrated at the top end of the earnings scale. the gap between rich and poor is growing rapidly. A large portion of the growth is driven exclusively by house prices because we cant build enough houses to keep the supply anywhere near the demand. Its now so bad that if the government created some means of delivering the houses quickly it would have a huge negative effect on the economy.

Couples and families are finding themselves working longer and harder for less in lifestyle terms not money terms. People have had enough, the desire for a work- life balance is overtaking the desire for cash which your only going to plough into a huge mortgage.

You don't like Toronto we get that, we all feel the same about the places we live. The people on this forum and no doubt the other forums spend a lot of time here researching, questioning and most spend a fair amount of cash visiting the places they want to spend their lives/raise their kids. I for one am more interested in the opportunities that my kids will get out of Canada than those I will. Just because you don't understand our reasons doesn't make them less reasonable, sensible or well researched. I wouldn't move to Spain under any circumstances but good luck to you. Not many people here are under much illusion about what to expect in Canada.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Harrow is no longer an area I would state as being great.

South Ealing (as opposed to Ealing) is good, just a shame the cost of keeping a tiny flat with little or no chance of upgrading as the price of 'real' houses spiral yet even further out of reach.

Mortgages are now being offered to groups of friends as single couples cannot buy.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

So I presume you work via the internet, you don't need face to face (in the same room) meetings with customers and have a client base.

Good for you.


I think you'll find people here are normal people who have to go to work. They don't have your nice position.

They do not have your option of being able to move to Spain and make a good living witout having to learn the local language.

Can't help feeling at times that your just here to rub peoples noses in it.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Might be a bit harsh Peter, if that is the intent it's not going well! I've no interest in Europe or somewhere with a warmer climate, if I did I'd head to Oz or California or would have gone for that interview in Malaga. To quote the episode of the Simpsons that just uttered it "I guess happiness is wherever you find it"

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Yes, I work via the internet and don't have clients that I need to meet face to face.

It gives me options. But those options are a headache, because with so many options, it is hard to settle on one. Moreover, I am still single and don't have a family or kids to drag around.

I guess maybe my perceptions are skewed by the fact that I don't have to look for employment where ever I move. The language on the other hand, I think if I moved to Spain, in order to fully integrate and get the most out of my experience, I would make every attempt to learn it.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I don't think that's fair.

A lot of people work from home and they are normal people. They have just made different decisions about how to live their lives and those decisions have pros and cons.

I decided 15 years ago that I preferred not going to a job but working for myself from home. It suits me and it works for me. There is no gun pointing at people's heads forcing them to commute to a job.

Relating back to one of the OP points: "Here people live a commuter lifestyle, not much different from the UK."

Sometimes I shake my head when I read threads on here by people wanting to "start a new life!!!!" in Canada as they are sick of the rat race in the UK, yet they go about making decisions that re-create a similar way of living that caused them so much frustration in the UK ("Can someone recommen an area an hours commute from downtown?" ... and I wonder why don't they try changing how they live in the UK rather than moving to a foreign country? (I'm not referring to people that are 'pulled' to Canada.)

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

And I am absolutely the opposite. Having lived in N America all my life, including numerous places in the US, I am tired of it. I have no interest in living in N America. In fact, I even have a US greencard and could move to So Cali or Florida, if I just wanted a warmer climate. But, that is not enough.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

That was explaining to Peter why I wouldn't consider what you were doing as trying to rub it in our faces, not making a point to you

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Peas is talking a lot of sense - I love working from home and not having the hassle, stress and cost of a commute any more. The times I need to go to Vancouver for business is a big chore. Sitting in traffic for several hours to drive between places like White Rock, Abbotsford, Langley and Richmond is fine once or twice a month, but to do it everyday....? No thanks, the congestion and commute was one reason I wanted a lifestyle change from the UK.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Ditto. Although here in Ottawa it's the weekend driving I find the chore, everyone and their aunty Ada are out and about. Weekdays it's sublime, unless I have to go right into downtown, but that's rare.
Although I would have to do a re-check on the "normal people work from home", I wouldn't consider myself to be normal. But then maybe my definition is different to HWP's.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

:unsure:



I doubt it, Steve. :p

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Happier? ;)

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Yet this is what you posted on page 1:

I think you are looking at Toronto through rose tinted glasses. I would have to disagree with you that these things are much worse in the UK. I lived in London for 5 years in the early Nineties and have lived in Toronto for over 10 years, so I think I can make a good comparision. (sic)

I resisted the temptation (until now) to comment on your post where you admitted that you can stay home all day, don't need to meet clients, and that you are still single. This certainly suits someone who is so aggressive and rude to other posters, just because they are not answering your questions.

Trollers, like liars, need a good memory.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Hah! Busted.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Our friends took us to the Toronto Greek district... what a great place... like greece but the streets were covered in ice... everybody seemed to still be enjoying themselves... you'll find what you're looking for if you look hard enough.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

It appears a lot of posters on here work from home, a luxury I would love.

There was me thinking that 99% of people have to travel to work. Maybe a topic for a poll.

Nurses, tradesmen, doctors, administrators, secretaries, teachers are just some people who cannot do this.

Being single and having the ability to work from anywhere opens up your horizons no end I should imagine. Language is not a barrier and as you point out could be learned whilst there.

I have a friend whose decided to set up his own internet business and moved to Thailand to develop it. He rents a nice apartment where his yearly rent is the same as a month in the UK and everything is cheap. This gives him the ability to live whilst the business is grown.

Your point about living in London in the early 90's and it being great, I pointed out that I too, lived in London in the early 90's and thought it was great, I returned 10 years later and guess what, no longer so great, so I can't see why you maintain the argument.

There was a difference though, early 90's, after divorce, renting with friends enjoying a new found freedom. 10 years later married (happily) and struggling to maintain a mortgage.

Lets look at mortgages, the rule in the UK was always 3 times main earner plus second earner. Lets say one earns 25K, the other 30K, reasonable salaries in London for average working people, thats a mortgage of 115K tops. My tiny 2 bed flat is currently worth about 270K, so thats a deposit of 155K needed!!!

That's London, the problem is, outside London the prices are also rising, not as large, but the average salaries are lower.

I loved the nightlife possibilities in London, just couldn't afford to take advantage of them.

One thing I will agree is food, food at restaurants here in Canada in the main is crap, most 'restaurants' are glorified burger joints, for god's sake they even call subway a restaurant!

I don't live in Toronto, I presume the choice is more, I found a very nice restaurant last night here in Vancouver, where I'm on business at the moment.

Where I live there are two or three decent restaurants the rest are grill chains, where you can get steaks, ribs, wings and of course burgers. (Not brilliant for a vegetarian).

I'd like it to be better, but I knew what i would get here so I won't complain.

As far as the cold, some don't mind it as much. remember one man's meat is another mans poison.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

You know what's wrong with Spain? to many English

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I've heard that said more than a few times

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Concrete!

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Only in southern Spain, we have Spanish friends who live about 40 Kilometres south of Santander and we were objects of much curiosity when visiting.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

But was that just because you were from the UK or were there other reasons you aren't telling us about? ;):p:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I'll get me coat.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Other reasons?! Steve666 doesn't need other reasons! ;) :lol:

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

What are you going on about? Yes, I spent 5 years in London as a student. Should I say that I spent the majority of my life, including ALL MY WORKING LIFE in N America? Does that make you feel better?

And yes I CAN stay home all day, but it doesn't mean I do. I work from home, what this means that I can work from anywhere. So, quite often I take my laptop and go down to a place offering free wifi, have a coffee and do some work.

What is your point anyway?

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Oh you ALWAYS have to have the last word! You're like this EVERY morning!!:frown:

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I kill cats...

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Here's another one who works from home (currently on the couch still in my PJs) I don't need an office because I go to my clients and not the other way around.

Anyway - as someone who has moved around a lot I think I have some authority on the subject. I've lived in Spain (I'm actually half Spanish), Sweden, Canada (Toronto), UK and was engaged to a German for 2 years so commuted there and have spent a shedload of time in Germany.

I've just moved back to Sweden (where I was born) after 4 years in UK. My business is registered in UK and I don't know what to do next. I can't decide if I am to move back to UK in 6 months or so or if I should move to Germany. The latter is looking like the best plan as according to projected turnaround time for PR applications, CIC in Berlin takes 8 months in comparison to London's 49 months (or whatever it is).

My ultimate goal is to move back to Canada. I have ZERO interest in staying on the European continent and I feel more Canadian than my biological nationalities. Patriotism has nothing to do with where you where born or where your parents came from. It has everything to do with where you feel at home. Toronto is my home. It is my shelter from the storm.

As for putting up with the winters, well, being Swedish and having lived in Toronto the winter 83/84 (Those who were there know what I mean) yes, it is cold. But it is a different kind of cold. It's drier. The winters in UK had me dress armer than winters in Sweden. The damp was driving me up a tree. I'd be freezing in the summers. I'm, as I said, back in Sweden now and it is November. By all counts I should be walking around looking like the Micheline man but I don't. I'm wearing less winter clothing than the rest of my family, hardly put on a coat when I go outside. It's a much drier kind of cold here than in UK and the Canadian winters are drier still.

It's the same for the heat. I can put up with the summers in Spain better than the ones in Sweden/UK as it's a drier kind of heat.

Standard of living in UK is appalling unless you are LOADED. I borrowed a condo in YYZ smack downtown (Wellington) 18 months ago. I tiny studio or bachelor (chose appropriate word) but far better equipped with a much higher standard than in UK. The rent was CAD$900 (Slightly more now) and for that the tennant had washer, dryer, fully equipped kitchen (hob, oven, microwave, dishwasher, fridge, freezer), electricity, heating, air-condition, 24/7 security, alarm, bathroom w. bath, free access to fully equipped rooftop gym, exercise pool, sauna, patio's with BBQ areas and for another $150 a place in the garage.

Now - I had a slightly bigger place in UK my first 3 years there. A 1 bedroom ground floor apartment for CAD$975 including, fridge, freezer, hob, oven, washing machine, bathroom with shower. No where near as good quality as in Canada. No security, no gym, no access to garage, no security oh and add another CAd$300 a month for electricity, gas, water and the wonderful council tax. And the rent was a "mate's rent". Would have gone for loads more, really.

Sure, the place on Wellington is not the cheapest I could certainly find cheaper still but then again, that standard and the location, I'd be more than happy to pay the extra dollars for it. Finding something similar for the similar price in London/Birmingham/Manchester is harder than finding a needle in a haystack.

Anywhere outside London and the you're limited to pub food. Quality in restaurants go down hill quick. In Canada you can find a Sushi bar, and a good one, even in Georgetown.

10 years ago things in UK used to be OK. It's gone down fast and is declining still. It was declining even when I was living there.

Sweden isn't much better either. Recent political scandals is shaking the government. Unemployement is high and they make it impossibe to work your way out of it.

Spain, cost del sol in particular, e bit of a warning for you. It is EXPENSIVE! House prices has skyrocketed. Fortunately for those thinking about going there I hear it is about to start declining. Unfortunately for my cousin who just bought a place for about half a million €. That's around CAD$700k. They had been looking for quite a while before they found the place they live in now.

Every country has it's positives and negatives. Every city in each country is different. It is more of a personal issue and what is more important for the person.

To me, being happy and feeling at home is more important than anything else. I've never felt at home in the 40+ years of my life living in Europe. I did feel perfectly at home and happy the short time I was living in Toronto.

Adrian, if Spain floats your boat than go. Just be prepared that cost of living is not as cheap as it was 20 or 30 years ago.

Good luck

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

^^ Good post YYZ. Nice to hear from you again.

BTW I'm in Germany at the moment. Enjoying it, but I still prefer Toronto.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Just to answer the original post

1. Where we are going we have access to world class ski resorts within 1-2hrs drive- Castleford snowdome just doesn't cut it. We also like mountains.
2. We can also both work in our chosen professions unlike other countries with world class ski resorts, where they are not desparate for people like us and there is a language barrier and a political barrier to obtaining work. None of these other countries have specifically been to UK to recruit and NONE would pay our relocation.
3. We feel like an adventure
4. Here we are wholly reliant on TWO salaries to pay for our one ski holiday a year- in canada we can ski on one salary if needs be. Following our homework we should be much more comfortably off.
5. We are not going for ever - we like the UK
6. WE are also rebalancing our lifestyle, my OH will have less of a commute and therefore less family time. Sure we could probably achieve this in the UK if we wanted to (but not at the same salary). His new work seems far more family oriented and the work seems to have far less demanding clients where money is less tight. There are also some specific career objectives that are bing met in Canada which are hard to meet here and now.

I realise our motivations are different to other people and sometimes I do wonder why people are swapping simliar lifestyles in UK for similar ones over there!

Gryphea

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Thanks. I know we're going off topic here but I've settled in again now. Still have loads to do with my cottage here on the farm so am sat and sleep on the couch in my parents house. Horse settled as well. He got here a couple of weeks after I did. Still gagging to get out already.

Where and for how long? I'm likely to go to Hamburg and Hannover next week and then Munich in December on business. Would be great to hook up.

/YYZ

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I'm in Mainz until Nov. 23rd. Are you travelling from Hannover/Hamburg to Munchen by train or car, rather than flying?

PM if you prefer.

Edit: oops. I misread your post... it's two separate visits right?

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

How right/smart you are. :thumbsup:

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

You are looking at it from the perspective of 7000 square km of the GTA, not the remaining 9.9M sq Kms of canada, outside the major metro areas,
Friendly people, cheap housing, low crime, low stress. You dont need to look 3500miles away to Spain to avoid the commuter drudgery and overcrowding of the GTA...but the same argument can probably be made for people leaving London for Canada.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Much of what you say I agree with, but these two comments stretch the truth somewhat.

'Appalling' is way too strong a term to apply to the general standard of living in the UK - perhaps in the major cities if you're not loaded then life's not likely to be a bed of roses, but I don't think you need to be particularly wealthy to have a comfortable existance in many parts of the UK.

The second comment is silly - somewhere like Ludlow (pop. 10,000) has 7 entries in the Michelin Guide, and there are countless good places to eat outside of the capital.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

plus there are those of us that would never pay for the over-priced under-sized "food" that most of those restaurants serve anyway

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

For those of you in Canada who say that you work from home, is this the type of work you could have done anywhere? Or did moving to Canada afford you the opportunity of this lifestyle?

One point I do want to make, with all the complaints about how bad things are in the UK. You do realize that the reason you can sell up move here and buy a huge house here is because things are so DAMN GOOD in the UK, right?

You think Canadians could afford to do the same thing? No way. The British are buying up second homes, vacation properties, inverstments, all over the world. Do you see very many Canadian doing that? NO. Only the fortunate few. Whereas the British have the economic power to invest all over the world.

If you decide to go back to the UK, do you realize how hard it will be for you to get back into the housing market at anywhere near where you are now? There is no way that house prices in Canada, at least outside of the major centres are rising anywhere near what you get in the UK. And specially London. It will ALWAYS be an economic powerhouse. It has been the centre of power for hundreds of years. A property investment in London is gold. London is at the point where people are saying it may very well overtake New York as the financial capital of the world.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

No, its because of property value inflation. If you are on the housing ladder you can cash in the huge increase in value of your home over the last 5 or 10 years as equity and get away from paying a large mortgage by moving to canada at a favourable exchange rate. On the flip side, property costs are so high in the UK now in general, it takes two wages to pay the bills, which sucks if you want to raise your own kids, and makes buying any sort of starter home a major struggle for many. Much of the prosperity you see in the UK is rooted in personal debt.

However, property prices in Canada, especially in the large cities are no longer the bargain they were 5 or 10 years ago , and the exchange rate has tanked with the strong CDN $, so its becoming less and less of a motivation, unless you head to somewhere more rural. You are correct though in general about being able to return to a similar house in the UK if you abandon canada, unless you are in Calgary or one of the other property hot spots.

I dont work from home, but my 20min drive into town is totally hassle free, that was never the case in the UK. For me canada is a much less stressfull place to live and raise kids...but I am not in the rat race in a big city.