Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Nope, couldn't have afforded to buy the land, business and opportunity in the UK, so Canada kick started something unaffordable elsewhere.

Correct, house market growth in the UK and the effort I'd put into buying, renovating and selling over a long time provided the capital investment. Hurray for my endeavours!

House pricing in Kamloops has risen far more quickly than the UK during the past 2yrs, and is forecast to continue. Combine that with building a business that's added to my net worth, and I'd be 2x as well off in terms of liquid assets if I moved back to the UK.

As usual you're over simplifying circumstances and appear not to have an appreciation for what's occuring outside of TO.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

That is not a fair comparison. London is at least three times bigger than Toronto. The pressure on housing is much more. The London economy is much bigger. London is one of the major financial capitals of the world. If you compared New York and London maybe it might be more meaningful. And if you do that you will see that London actually comes out as being more affordable.

Georgetown, if it is the one near Toronto, has become quite an upscale suburb of Toronto. It is not representative of what you will find across Canada. You are more likely to be directed to the local Tim Hortons or McDonalds if you ask around for a restaurant.

All indications are that the UK is doing better now than it was 15 years ago. Crime is down, poverty is down. I posted a link to an Economist article earlier in the thread talking about this.

I was there last winter, from January to April. I rented a two bedroom apartment. It was 1000 Euros a month. Right on the golf course, in a place called La Quinta. The apartment was of very high standard. Fully furnished. Marble floors. Overlooking the golf course. It was on the market for sale for 300,000 Euros. I realize that the market is still overpriced. I don't plan on buying right away. The Spanish market is poised for a huge CRASH.

I realize that. Having spent a few months there, somethings were cheaper than Toronto, somethings were more. Overall, I came out at about the same.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I realize that property prices in some places out west, i.e BC and Alberta are booming. But there are many here that are not moving there. The majority of those moving here will not get the kind of returns that you have managed to obtain.

In your case, you came here and substantially changed your lifestyle, so your move makes sense.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Wrong. The reason prices are so high in the UK is because of the shortage in London, the high prices then spread out as people move further out looking for affordability! They then have to travel a long distance and the outcome is to push up prices where they have moved to and that leads to people there having to move further away to find affordability, etc etc... Its a domino effect that is well known.

I'm sorry but this is complete and utter bollox as we would say, the average joe in the UK struggles to buy one home. Yes there are the rich, have you not heard of the have and have nots, you seem to think the roads in the UK are lined with gold.


Again you sound like you're lucky enough to have a business which gives you the money to do things us ordinary folk cannot do. London property prices makes it outside the grasp of most people, unless you are lucky and have a property from when prices were not as bad to sell you cannot get on the ladder.

You base most of your argument on a few years living in London at college more than 15 years ago. I SAY AGAIN I LIVED THERE AT THAT TIME TOO, IT HAS CHANGED!!!!!

Unless you have a lot of disposable income it can be a nightmare.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Well, if you wanna laugh, you can laugh at the Economist. You seem to know more than they do.

http://www.economist.com/opinion/dis...ory_id=8629539

Here I will even copy some of it over for you.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I think it's likely much easier to work from home in the UK, Canada only has the required infra-structure in major urbans centres while even the more remote places in the UK have support for mobile telephones and high speed internet.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

The Economist is obviously talking about a different UK from the one I'm in, most people here struggle with one mortgage on two incomes, crime is rampant, teen gangs run most of the streets, cops don't bother attending a lot of calls made to them, the gap between the rich and poor is increasing etc. etc. As usual they seem to deem London and the south-east as being "the UK", I'd like to send them to my hometown for a month and we'll see if they think the place is in such great shape

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

If you're a first time buyer these days you face a 40 year interest only mortgage being offered at up to 8 times your salary....

You then have to fight to avoid being one of the thousands of repossessions each month (which is climbing).

Or you could be one of the many people accessing and using all of their properties equity to make the monthly payments (or buy an Evo 9 if your shite with money).

I just don't see how this is good!

Folk are terrified of not getting on to the housing ladder and will go to any length to get a foothold.

Mass hysteria is the major reason for house price increases.... people are afraid that the house price increases will never stop... well it is, and in many cases it has started to fall.. I know of two people in the last month who have dropped their house prices by over £30k each! There are more and more areas of the UK where houses sit unsold.... now the panic will go the other way with people trying to offload their property in order to harvest some of the 'false' profit they believe they have.. we have been here before!

AdrianTO, you have to stop listening to the fairies.. England isn't 'tea with the Queen' or 'changing of the guards' no more!

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Every one of this things is becoming an issue here. You talk longingly about Scarborough and Etobicoke, yet those two areas are the biggest dumps and worst areas of town to live in and send children to school.

Yes, it could be that YOUR town is having particular troubles. There are many reasons why a particular town or region of a country could be in decline. It could be because the primary employer has shut down or because of a shifting economy. This does not mean that the country as a whole is in decline. Further, while there are many families in the UK that might be feeling "recessionary", it appear that the UK as a whole is prospering like never before.

Not ALL of the UK is a crime infested, rat hole which is what you seem to be implying. I am sure you can find a better standard of living and quality of life in other parts of the country.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

So which is it?

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

PeterF is correct for the late nineties & early naughties but lately over the last 3 years we face the crazy situation where nobody can get onto the housing ladder without debt beyond what is reasonable

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Why not laugh? Not least because you seem to have misread - or misunderstood - the article you make reference to. The paragraph you selectively quote, Adrian, from an Economist leading article, stands out even within the article itself as going against the grain. Since you're keen on the Economist (and its thought-pieces) as a source, allow me to quote more from the same article:

That's from the opening paragraph - the observation of the current (well, Feb 2007) state of affairs that leads in to the rest of the article.

This is not a position I agree with, but if you read some of the threads on this board you will see that it's a recurring theme of social unease that pushes people to look to a new life abroad (even if a few miss the startling irony of that). The Economist piece supports this to an extent:

Yes, Britain's economy has done very well, thank you, over the last decade or so. But that in itself causes problems. Posters here have talked about that fact that the housing market is hugely affected by the lack of supply to meet a huge demand. This has skewed the market in London and much of the south-east quarter of the country beyond the reach of those unlucky enough not to be already on the ladder: this section of the population includes pretty much everybody under the age of about 35. The London that you may remember from the early 1990s has changed beyond recognition - I know, I lived there for pretty much the whole of that decade, and until the summer of last year.

The fact remains that there is a significant social malaise across the country. Some sections of society (the very wealthy, but they probably spent at least some of the year abroad anyway; those like you who are self-employed in a service industry, but they know they could live and work anywhere, so don't have the same pressure) are insulated to a degree, but I think you significantly underestimate the different scale and scope of the ratrace in London and Toronto. I'll limit my comments on this to London and the GTA, because that's where I've lived- and that seems to have been the comparison in your mind at the start of this thread.

Many of us have come to Canada for pretty basic reasons - in my case, there was an opportunity through my work, I would be able to have more living space for the same commute, that commute would be less unpleasant, my kids wouldn't be in a lottery for a place at our local state school, etc etc. (And considering that I didn't have an option but to commute, I'd far rather trust my journey to GO and/or TTC than to South West Trains and London Underground).

I don't recognise some of your characterisations of Toronto. Granted, I'm a suburbanite who rides the GO every day to get downtown, but out here in the wasteland of dystopian Oakville (thanks, dbd...) I know all my neighbours for about half a dozen houses in each direction, have partied with them, taken my kids to swim in their pools... my 4-year-old plays ball or rides his bike on the street with the neighbours' kids (I can't imagine that happening in Chiswick). I don't think I've ever seen a bar in TO that is not busy, or if not busy at least occupied; the punters have got to come from somewhere.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

if you can't beat them... join them!

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Did I say my comparison was Toronto V London? No I did not and it was not. It was a comparison between Toronto and a city 2 hrs west of London, which is classed as commutable to London and where house prices are in the range of $500k to $600k

And because it was in a newspaper/on the internet it has to be true?

Drug use is up. Weed is a class C drug and it's widely spread in the youth. 15 y/o kids and younger are using drugs of all sorts. Ketamine, weed, cocain, speed and so on. I've never encountered as many drug users as I did while living in UK and I'm in the music business.


That would make it roughly CAD $1350. Sounds about right.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Yep. no one uses weed in Canada. Or grows it in the basement, or in the woods behind my house :rolleyes:

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I didn't say that. Drugs are everywhere but as I said , never seen so much of it as when living in UK.

Love your signature ;)

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Well, maybe I was exaggerating that issue somewhat but The New Mayflower on Shaftesbury is greatly missed.

Thing is - I like pub food.

YYZ

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Odd, I don't recall talking longingly of those places, merely that they'e not as bad as they're made out to be and that a lot of the issues are self-contained. I certainly won't be living in them as I have my heart set on being downtown, take that any way you like, whether it be me saying those areas are too bad to live in or that I just want to live downtown as has been my ambition since I left.

I'm well aware that different areas have different reasons for the way they are, that's just common sense but I'm not in my hometown, I'm in Hampshire and it's getting as bad everywhere over here, be it my experiences here, contact with friends elsewhere or the news.

You can say what you like but the fact is in the past 4 years I've lived in Toronto twice and in a few different places in the UK due to work permit issues and so on and it's a lot better in Toronto. Unlike what appears to be your situation, I can't just move to the nicer parts. The class barrier and trying to get on the housing ladder are almost insurmountable as everyone has told you and the salaries aren't rising in the same manner to compensate for this. I'll arrive in Canada at 26 with just over enough to cover the settlement funds but it'll take me a lot further there than it ever could here because I've managed to live better on less over there, even as recently as January this year

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

To get away from this type of person, and his future children..
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8f4_1184449943

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Good heavens. Aren't the lower orders appalling!

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

You might find these guys more to your liking:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_v1Py1czppg

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8PoyZimbfZY

http://youtube.com/watch?v=i6bfu5PAs1g

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/ne...0bb925af&k=182

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Every city everywhere in the word has bad areas. Even the little town of 18k inhabitants I'm in now. The only way to get away from them is to be rich enough to live in a gated community.

Chavs/thugs are everywhere.

However, in North America the chavs/thugs tend to stay in their own area, wereas in UK they are everywhere.

And the only reason they exist is due to bad parenting.

YYZ

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

YEAH! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Pompey rock!

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

You're as confused as the OP. It's Edinburgh Rock and Pompey Suck. ;);)

(Although they're doing damn well this year, I'll give you that :o)

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Even inside your gated community? Do they scale the walls? Catapult rotting sheep over? That's the sort of rich history one misses over here.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Hey, there's another one! I thought I was all alone... Not that I'm a very loyal supporter - I think I last visited Fratton Park almost 20 years ago - but still, the Chimes ring in my ears if only to annoy Novo :)

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

What's this? Pick on the Geordies Week? I'll be off to the UN Human Rights Commission with all your names if this doesn't stop.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I think the question should by Why T.O?
But i think i would choose the Costa del Sol over most places. Hardly a fair comparison...also what are you gonna do for work?

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

:rofl:

Ah canny lad, divvent fret.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I'll agree with you that the UK is not as 'bad' as people like to say it is. But perhaps only from an economic viewpoint. Not having lived there for 6 years i can't say for sure. But it didn't seem any worse when i last visited in August.

They are doing this all on equity release by 1) selling second/third properties and using the difference to fund another place and 2) by re-mortgaging their existing property. The banks were persuaded to do this on the basis of rising house prices, and the pace of rise is unsustainable. If the market goes flat, the equity releases will dry up, and people will be left with huge mortgages.

I disagree, i think some areas of Canada are experiencing comprable, if not higher increases than the UK. (Agreed that they won't sustain for nearly as long due to decent housing supply in Canada vs. UK)

On this point, i'll agree with you. But London isn't really in the UK. :lol:

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Eh???? Not with you.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I've not catapulted a sheep for yonks, madam.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I think you are being quite naive here. Firstly, as an immigrant moving to a new country, how do you even know what "their own areas" are? Some are obvious and every body knows they are bad areas. Others are not so obvious and are scattered all over the city.

And even then, they don't stay in "their own area", people have been shot in front of the Eaton Centre and in front of nightclubs as a result of crossfire from gang related shootings. What are you going to do? Not go shopping downtown?

We are right across the border from the U.S, and this has become a conduit for guns and drugs. In Europe you are still somewhat removed from a lot of this. Those "thugs" in the UK get their inspiration from N American gangs.

I see "thugs" all over the place, even in the upscale mall close to where I live. And all the youth here seem to be adopting that sense of style, regardless of their backgrounds, Whites, Blacks, Indians, Tamils, Chinese, West Indians, they all walk around like wanna be thugs.

Having said all of that, Toronto is still a fairly safe city, specially for N America. Some people here have said, well "Toronto is not Canada.' This is true. But, the reality is that Toronto has less crime than some of the smaller cities in Canada such as Edmonton and Regina.

Contrary to what some here think, this is not some sort of utopia where people of all classes and races hold hands and sing "Kumbaya". You will see similar social problems here.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Edited for accuracy.

You need to travel west more often ;) :p

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Can you give an example? Toronto seems to me to be quite well defined in terms of violent and non-violent areas.

One would certainly have to consider King West "the entertainment district" as being one of the more violent areas. If it's shootings that concern you then most of Scarborough is better.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

We are being naive? You are the one uping sticks and heading to spain on the grounds that the grass is greener.

My experience is that the grass is no more or less green where ever you go, happyness and contentment are states of mind dependent on your own outlook on life, and no one elses.

If you decide you can be happy in a certain place, chances are you can. Once you decide you have to leave, its very hard to stop that ball rolling because of the cliche about not looking back on your life and wondering "what if..."
Have you lived in enough of Canada to speak for the whole country? I live a pretty utopian life in my corner of Ontario, but thats just cos its a good match for what I am looking for in life at the moment. Other people here seem quite happy with their choice too.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

No I haven't misunderstood the article. The lines I quoted were specifically done to refute that poster's laughter as to my comments that crime and poverty were down. It was not intended to address the points about social malaise.

Now you are expanding the scope and want to talk about social unease. From what I gather in that whole piece from the The Economist, the thrust of the article is, "with things going so well, why the doom and gloom?"

Like Toronto is not Canada, Oakville is not Toronto. It is like someone living in Hampstead or one of the wealthier areas of London. Oakville is one of the most expensive areas of GTA. It doesn't mean your experiences are not valid, but it is just that very, very few of those moving to Toronto will be able to enjoy the Oakville lifestyle.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

As I mentioned earlier, Toronto is one of the safer Canadian cities. Places like Edmonton and Regina are more crime ridden. And Vancouver, well, just today CBC was reporting that there appears to be a gang war developing in the city and it is going to get worse.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Actually, most of the brits seem to end up in Oakville...'cos of all that UK equity they can bring probably.

What is your point wit this argument anyway? People do their research and make a decision based on it. No one is going to change their mind because of your opinion, or anyone elses. Most Brits who come to Canada are very happy with the result. You don't like it and are moving away. So what, that's life, Time to move on.


Sometimes you cant see the wood for the trees, and that's very true of immigration, a bad experience in one area clouds your view of a whole country. Large chunks of the UK are very nice, some parts are not, same goes for Canada. But just cos you have certain experiences and views does not make for a one size fits all solution.