Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Sure. The difference is that there's essentially _nowhere_ in Britain anymore that you can find a decently-priced house that you would want to live in, whereas there are still plenty of places outside of big cities in Canada where you can do so.

You talked about paying $300,000 for an apartment in Toronto, but I've seen _public toilets_ advertised for almost that price in the UK... obviously someone is desperate enough to buy them and turn them into a place to live.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

What criteria do you use to judge your standard of living? Do you have a bigger house? Bigger car? Do you eat out more?

I can tell you that in Toronto, you are talking about two salaries to make ends meet. And I am quite sure that in Vancouver it is the same.

Do people have bigger houses here? Sure. But, how much time do they spend in them? From what I have seen of my friends, not much at all. They are either at work or going to or coming from work. I never see them, except for weekends. Nobody just goes out for a beer to the corner pub. They barely take any vacation time. I just think people coming here are exchanging one rat race for another. It is not better, it is just different.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Once again, your comparisons aren't relevant to most people here. Most people aren't leaving the UK to go to a high-pressure job in Toronto.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

OK. so then let us get back to my original question. Why Canada, versus some of the many places in Europe. Portugal, Spain, Italy, France etc.. etc..

Better weather, closer to the UK to visit family, no visa complications..

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I guess if you look at a lot of recent surveys , many of the best cities in the world to live in our in Canada. vancouver has repeatdly been in the top 3 cities of the world to live in for many years.
In my opinion as a rule of thumb , the standard of living in canada is quite a lot more higher than in London for the average person.
One thing I have defenitely notices if you ask the common English person what they think of England they will stay shithole, if you ask an avergae canadian they will say awesome here in Canada

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Language is probably one of the main reasons. You're unlikely to be able to get a decent job in continental Europe without being fluent in the language of that country. Plus, lots of English people have an inherently racist/xenophobic attitude towards the French and Germans.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Now I'm confused. Obviously you don't like Toronto, great example there chum and you want out. Fine. What are you missing about Canada? Lots. Toronto isn't Canada so either you mislabeled your original topic heading or deliberately did it.

There is a forum on Europe since your original statement clearly indicated you came on here for information on Europe. It isn't up to the people on here to educate you on Canada as you've made your comments quite clear. What I am wondering is why you bother posting this on the Canadian forum?

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

[QUOTE=bazzz;5507405]Personally, I was just glad to get away from English people as a lot of them seem to be small-minded bigots. Read something like this:

http://ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com/

it's a collection of vents from people from the "Have Your Say" section of the BBC web site. It's depressing. While I'm sure there are similar people in Canada, in general, in my experience, people are a lot more open minded and civilised here.

Cornwall - widespread poverty, no jobs, and largely populated by white, backward hicks. The only non-white person you'll see runs the local Indian/Chinese restaurant and they'll be subjected to plenty of racist abuse. I lived there for nine years.

Kent - just part of greater London really. House prices are out of the league of anyone who didn't buy in the past 15 years.[/QUOTE]


Not true we bought in Kent in January 2002, granted we paid what I thought was alot at the time for a 3 bedroom semi $130,000, but sold it in 2006 for £202,500 nice profit.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

ok, why Canada.
Mountain after mountain after mountain, more space than you could ever imagine. Large steaks and a great BBQ culture. Courteous people... if you are polite to them that is.... this is easier to accomplish if you both speak the same language.
It’s not so much what is wrong with the UK it’s what feels right with Canada. Both my wife and I have spent enough time in Ontario to see that people are unhappy there too, however, you don’t see them flooding into the UK... my cousin has been raised in Ontario and still has his British passport... he would rather live in BC than here, which is strange as he has never set foot in western Canada.
I believe people can get tired of wherever they live and ‘hopping’ the pond puts the spice back into their lives.... Toronto may be right for some immigrants and I admit that I really like the place but BC has mountains and space and that is a little slice of heaven to us.
Both my wife and I have good lives here and live very well.... but we have a dream.... probably the same kind of wonder lust that the first North American settlers had.
I think what is happening to the UK is criminal and wish to have no part in it... but I love my country and wish to remember it the way it was.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I have to agree with Polar Bear space is a big issue for us. My wife is a nurse and her salary in Alberta would be around double her salary in the uk. even allowing for exchange rate etc. We both wok full time here and have 2 young kids we cant afford to live in Edinburgh. Edinburgh was recently voted the top city in the UK for lifestyle but a recent price survey showed that it was no longer possible to buy any apartment in the city limits for under £100 000 average prices for 3 bedroom family homes such as we would like to own are well over £250 000 that's regardless of area. We had to move an hour outside the city to get a decent house but it meant my wife who works night shift to limit the extortionate childcare costs was working 13 hour shifts with an hours drive in the dark each side, on an A class road.

the average mortgage in the uk is now around 9 times average salary people are killing themselves just to have somewhere to live.

I started talking about emigrating from the UK after my first trip to the US in 1991. People used to tell me I was mad/stupid to leave the uk. Nobody was talking about it or considering it. My current office has a staff of 30 and in the 2 years I have worked there 5 of them have left for another country, mostly Oz for the weather. None regret it and they would not even consider coming back.

Canada seems to offer us a lifestyle we consider appropriate for our level of input. Work life balance seems to be the key phrase.

Spain or Portugal may be your ideal and there's certainly plenty of Brits would agree given the number moving there to retire. We are not all looking for sun sand and sangria in our future. I want my kids to grow up in an atmosphere much less agressive than that we experience here in the UK. Canada while not in any way perfect seems to offer a better balance of options than the UK.

I wish you the best of luck with your choices Adrian but please don't compare your experience of the UK 10 years ago with the current situation, the record levels of emigration from the UK speak for themselves IMO.

Cheers
Tom

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

1) Language
It's a barrier no matter how well you speak it. Though we have made lots of French friends and have integrated as much as possible we will never completely understand the french mentality or their language!

2) Employment.
Have you ever tried to get a job in France? Even if you are fluent you'll find it difficult as unemployment is high, pay is low and people when they get a job generally stick with it for life.

And even if you want to be self employed you need to jump through hoops, pay thousands of euros up front just for the privilege of being self employed and then give almost 50% of your earnings away to pay for your social charges - and then if your business fails you can't even claim any benefits even though you've been paying into the system!:mad:

It's bad enough for the French, but for a foreigner it's a nightmare.

Many English who came over for the cheaper housing & better life are now returning as it's just too difficult to make ends meet. But if you don't have to work and are on a decent pension it's a great life - I would imagine!

However, after living in Chester, one of the UK's pretty smaller cities for over 20 years and watch it sadly decline to the point you don't want to go out into the town at night and you fear for your kids safety - I would rather be in France than the UK.

Here the teenagers generally have more respect for each other and their elders, possibly because they are brought up with better social skills and I can honestly say that I never feel threatened when I walk past a group of them as I would in the UK.

Anyway, as much as we love France for all the good things it offers, like a great life for our kids, plenty of social events, community lifestyle etc. we can't wait to get to Canada as it appears to have everything we have here but the opportunity to earn a living without the red tape and in our 1st language!:thumbsup:

By the way, Toronto was never on our list of places to live in Canada as I don't like big cities and I believe they ALL have their problems due to their size so we're looking at NS for all that it offers in the way of 'family life'.
Hope you find what you're looking for.
Lynpy

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

You are probably going to hate me for saying this......but
It's a sad fact that because the immigration process into the UK is unregulated from some countries and some of those migrants often come here to bleed the system. However, because the Canadian process is so stringent it doesn't allow the same frustrating social situation. Therefore, because of the points system and the 2-4 year wait I believe that those emigrating to Canada truly enhance the country, ultimately making it a better place to live.
That is one major difference between our two countries.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Why Canada and specifically why Toronto? Honestly, it's the only place that's ever felt like home. I've lived there twice and am going back for good in 2 weeks with no apprehension or second thoughts. Life is just easier over there for me, I walk a mile and it doesn't feel that far, it's -20 but it doesn't feel as cold as it would here at the same temp (maybe to do with a wet cold/dry cold), I run about playing football for 2 hours when it's 30C and it's fine, back home it goes over 20 and we're all sweltered after 10 minutes. I love that city, only Sydney and NYC really compare from the cities I've visited. I love the fact I can wander about downtown at 3am and not have to worry that some random ned is going to pull a knife on me for a laugh or some group of drunk and high teens are going randomly attack. I met up with 6 people doing BUNAC and 5 of them are either in the process of or are already permanent residents in and around Toronto, the other one is in Australia having met someone. I like that commuting isn't that expensive compared to the likes of London, I like the fact that I was able to survive on a lower wage and only work the minimum number of hours per week. I love the people. I love the diversity. I love the fact that a small flurry of snow doesn't bring the place to a screeching halt. I love the fact we can go out and play street hockey when it's -10. I like that we're about 90 minutes away from cottage country and/or Niagara Falls. I love the general atmosphere that surrounds the place. I especially love the way the class barrier isn't as much of a problem there as it is here.

(yes I also love the fact I didn't bother to paragraph any of it but the OP is either going to rubbish it or say I can have that in any big city so it is what it is)

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Fully agreed with all you say... you put a smile on my face and I hope it's our time soon to get over there.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I've been doing this in Toronto a couple of times a week for twenty years. It's depressing to hear that I imagined the other people in the various pubs.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

You'll get back soon enough, mine went a lot faster than anyone predicted and they seem to be doing May for London just now so you'll probably be back in time for the good weather!!

dbd33 we must be linked in some way, I often had the same hallucinations once or twice a week!

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I'm going to bite my tongue and reply to this as if it's a serious question.

I was born in Canada, moved to England when I was 10 (so early 90's). We lived in a tiny village outside of Oxford. The schools in the area were so far behind what we'd learned in Canada and we got so tormented my parents sent us all to private schools in Oxford. I hated that school, but I got a good education, so I guess it was a trade-off. It took 2 hours for me to get to school each day by bus, I went there from ages 10-18.

I went to university in Coventry, where my (then boyfriend, now husband) lived. We rented a tiny, crappy house and were strapped to afford that, even though he worked full time and I worked part time while going to university. When I graduated and got a job, we bought a house. Working two jobs, we could afford our mortgage, car, bills and food, but if we wanted to do anything or go anywhere we had to watch every penny. Our debts were starting to grow, even though we don't drink, smoke, or go out very much. Our house was in a cul de sac off a cul de sac and was very quiet, but the local kids terrorized the area, vandalizing cars and property. When we approached the parents of one family of hooligans (all under 9) we were told that the parents didn't feel safe letting the kids go to the park around the corner, so told them to play in OUR front yard instead, because they didn't want theirs destroyed!!! I would not walk around our neighbourhood after dark, and this was supposed to be one of the safer areas of Coventry.

Since I was Canadian, I sponsored my husband, and the process was fairly quick. Midway through, while we were asleep, someone broke into our house, stole a ton of stuff from the downstairs of our house, including both sets of house keys, loaded it into our car and drove off. That just completely destroyed any lingering feelings we had about the area. We researched moving to other areas of the UK (we've got close friends and family in Bristol). Even though our house had gone up a lot in value, we would not be able to afford to buy another house for the foreseeable future, we were trapped in our little 2.5 bedroom (I refuse to class the smallest one as a bedroom!), 1 bathroom, 900sq foot house that was so badly constructed that someone can pop out a window with a screwdriver and rob you blind.

Fast forward again. We've been in Canada for just over a year. It's not quite the country I left, but then again, I'm now looking at it from an adult's point of view and not through childhood rose-coloured glasses.

Within 6 weeks of arriving, we had bought 2 cars, found a job each (mine paid more than I'd earned in England, OH's was a little less), had started working, and had made an offer on a house. OH's job sucked, so when a position came up he was given a job at my company. We live in Milton and commute to Cambridge (a 35 minute commute - in England it took me 2 hours to get to work in Birmingham using a combination of car, train and feet). We work flexible hours, so are actually at home, sitting on the couch by 5pm (which is amazing). OH got a nice big salary increase at his new position, and my company seem to love me and have thrown a couple of raises and promotions at me in the year I've been there :)

Despite having a bigger house, 2 cars (although we only need to use one for commuting now), bigger/better electronics (which are very important to us!), and oodles of free time to do outside interests, we also have a lot more free cash. Apart from our mortgage, we're pretty much debt-free. If/when we want to move to a bigger house, we'll be able to afford it. We deliberately got the 1800sq ft 4 bedroom house we're in because we wanted to make sure that we could afford repayments on one of our salaries, just in case (new immigrant paranoia).

Children in the area are still polite and respectful - they have basic manners and say please and thank you. I've heard from my colleagues that this appears to be leaving kids in Canada, but it's still around in our area.

So...I've experienced both UK and Canada. I can say without any doubt that the UK is NOT for us at the moment, and Canada appears to fit our needs perfectly, at the moment. Can't comment on the future, but we're optimistic.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

The U.K are up in arms because some Polkish Student went back to Poland because the U.K Schools were too easy and he felt he wasn't learning anything, rather scathing comments on what is going on, quite surprise me, not the one I left to come here???

Ontario is just one province, TO is a good city, not London, but liveable.

Pubs, plenty of them, you just have to look.

I have travelled the world, several times, overall Canada offers the most.

Oz has heat, also snakes and spiders and friggin' great lizards and toads and everywhere is a damn long flight.

Here, I just booked, On Line a place in Florida for a month, two days safe and easy driving.

You bring an attitude, you create your own environment.

Global Warming, only country in the world totally self sufficient for energy, food, and for water, 2% of the world's population, 20% of the world's fresh water, think of future generations of your family.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Typical for a Torontonian to equate Canada with Toronto. That is why the rest of your fellow Canadians like you so much. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way to sunny Spain.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Well, somebody had to say it. :rofl:

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

This is what happens if you meet all your friends off the internet. Pubs full of avatars.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

It's not his fault it's the centre of the universe!!! :p

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Divn't be daft man. That's in Newcastle.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I thought that was a black hole?! Everyone puts their money into St James Park and nothing ever comes back to them!

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I warn you my friend, this is not a good day to mention Newcastle United to me.

< Toon 1 - 4 bleeding Portsmouth>

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

-20 is COLD, no matter how you put it. Last winter when it was -20 in Toronto, I was in Marbella, the temperature some days was +25, A typical day involved taking a walk on the beach with my dog and having a cafe con leche on the boardwalk. In the evening you need a light jacket, nothing more. Wet cold/dry cold whatever, -20 is COLD and it SUCKS.

You can do that in areas of London as well. There are some areas in Toronto, I wouldn't do it either.

What kind of work will you be doing here.

Most people in Toronto keep to themselves. I lived in the same house for 10 years and the only contact most neighbours have with each other is a passing hello. Romanians, Iranians, Chinese, Indians, they all keep to themselves and amongst there all people.

We only go to Niagara Falls once every five years. And that is when we have overseas visitors. For the most part, besides the falls it is a dump.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I see that a lot of you are moving to smaller cities and places like Eastern Canada. What will you be doing there? Someone talked about lack of jobs in smaller cities in the UK, it is the same or worse in Eastern Canada. Most young people from there have moved to Toronto, Montreal etc. The maritimes are a depressed part of the country with many of the traditional industries in decline. Of all the people I know, NOT ONE would consider moving out there. In fact a lot of them have moved here from there.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

You have mentioned the weather numerous times and so it seems this is your main complaint so why don't you just move if you can do so?. If as you mentioned, you can't wait to get out of here, why do you care so much why other people want to move here?. Many people love winter, many hate it, if you hate it so, as a previous poster mentioned, you're in the wrong forum.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Hart, I believe it is Albertans who are labelled rednecks and are not that well accepted??

remember, Let those Eastern Bastards freeze in the dark:frown:

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Well I'm spanish and also trying to move to Canada. I have lived in England for ten years and I'm married to an English man.

So I could ask you the same....why Spain? Don't get me wrong is my country and I love it...for holidays and visiting my family but not to live there. Yes it might seem the perfect place if you look at it from a tourist point of you, I also love Marbella, Murcia, Costa del Sol when I go on holidays but the reality is that Spain has problems like any other country. The level of unemployment is very very high, they have a lot of problems with housing and imigration and also terrorism.
As much as I love being Spain I don't want my children to grow there, I don't particulary like their education system either.
I also love England but once again, now that I have a family I don't want them to grow up here either. Living here is so expensive, we live near Manchester and we have lots of youth hanging about in the streets. We have tried to move but houses are sooooo expensive that we will probably end up even more in debt.

Anyway after all this, each to their own . If you think Spain can give you what you are looking for go for it. As for us we can't wait to move to Canada.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I managed to be able to sit on the porch with my hat, scarf and gloves on chatting with friends and having a good time when it was -20, also managed the commute without being late once to work the entire winter.

I've done it in Scarborough, Etobicoke, downtown. Most people don't bother with anyone and most of the shootings and stabbings are gang-related of which I am not a part of although the occasional tragedy of innocent bystanders getting in the way is sad it's a lifetime away from what I grew up with in and around Glasgow. I hate London, it's one of the few big cities I deplore having to go to and when I do it's purely to show it to other people, most of whom come away disappointed with the disgusting prices and the fact it's nothing like it's made out to be.

This time I'll probably do something with my computer science degree, most of the interviews before went great until they found out I had a 1 year visa and hence I ended up working in a legal firm doing database stuff and the second ime ina travel firm doing database stuff. Neither paid great but in the year I was there for both I was able to leave with at least as much as I started with when I arrived.

I don't know what that says about you or your neighbours but I knew and was welcome at least 6 houses in each direction by the end of my year there and my group of friends has people of various backgrounds and ethnicities. Maybe it's just easier to inter-mingle at a younger age?

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

I also find it odd that people are complaining so much about the decline of the UK and pine for how "it used to be". Yes, London is not what it was when I lived there in the Nineties. In fact, if anything it is even more prosperous now. The rising house prices are an indication of an economy on the rise.

There was an Economist cover story earlier this year titled "You've never had it so good." Here is an excerpt from some of it,

http://www.economist.com/opinion/dis...ory_id=8629539

So what gives?

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Yep we be all rednecks out here in real man country and don't be you all be forgettin' it. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Still having trouble getting over that one are we Howard? You really need to get out more the worlds moved on since then.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

1989-94, I lived in Harrow in North West London. It was a great town, easy access to Central London and good local life. I made a few friends and would go out regularly, safely traversing the streets at all times of the night.

1994-2002, worked up North contracting, moved around a bit, Warrington, Hull, Manchester, even out of the way places like Whitehaven on the edge of the beautiful Lake District (depressing town).

2003, returned to London and initially went straight back to Harrow while renting looking for a new property, having sold my 4 bed house in Manchester.

I found Harrow a strange and unknown place, the town centre had changed beyond recognition and 'trendy' bars had appeared everywhere full of drunken teens. Walking through the place was a challange, not feeling safe at all, the streets were menacing with arguing and fighting youths.

I eventually bought a tiny 2 bed flat in South Ealing at almost double the cost of the 4 bed house I sold.

Since then the prices have risen about 25% and the prices outside London has also risen as the prices roll out over the country (unfortunately when I sold in Manchester that had not started then, I would have benefited waiting a year, whose to know).

I would not have afforded my flat just 3 years later!!!!

My tiny 2 bed flat is now worth over $500,000 :eek:



Living in Canada means my wife does not need to work for us to live, although my salary has dropped we should be able to afford a decent property on my wages alone.




What I miss, no local pub for socialising, town centres with with life, here they are dead as the malls and de-centralised shopping areas have killed the town centre.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Language por favor

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Sounds painful. I am not risking hypothermia sitting on my porch in -20 and no Canadians do that. If they saw you doing that in the middle of the winter on your porch bundled up, they would think you are mad. Enjoying the winter is one thing, putting yourself through pain is quite another.

Those are the worst areas of town. I would be careful next time if I were you. I don't go to Scarborough or Etobicoke in the day time, let alone at 3 AM.

I don't think so. It seems to be the norm in most places. I have seen that with my friends as well and no one knows their neighbours. What do you mean "younger age"? I am talking people in their 30s here. Though my neighbours are of all ages.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

[QUOTE=raine66;5507485]
erm.... I think you just proved the original posters point :D

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

Castor canadensis.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

South Ealing and Harrow are both great areas. I haven't been to Harrow for a while, but Ealing seems the same to me, with a couple of more expensive bars.

And this is one of the things I hate about N America in general. The town centres are depressing places and there is no place where you see a lively gathering of people. You have to either go to the mall or in the case of Toronto to a few streets downtown. But, that is about it.

Re: Confused.. Why Canada?
 

And I've been trying to think of something at this level to say for two days, I must be losing it.